New methods of taxing fuel efficient cars

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05-21-2015, 14:27
mightiestmouse

New methods of taxing fuel efficient cars

So I'm originally from Oregon and I try to keep up with some of the laws that go into effect of the state as my family still lives there. Oregon is very similar to Colorado in the sense that Portland (D) / Eugene (D) tend to dominate state legislature while the rest of the state (R) has to deal with it.

Stumbled across this new law that has recently gone into effect called "OreGo" that taxes per mile driven of cars. Car is outfitted with a device that will essentially be another odometer, track the miles driven, and have you pay a tax of 1.5 cents per mile - you thought buying a fuel efficient car would save you money. Now, people that are opting into this program (currently not required?) will be exempt from government gas taxes.

The way I see this, is the government requires that cars become more fuel efficient, manufacturers comply with new MPG fleet laws, gas consumption decreases (along with taxes collected), government gets pissy as road funds decrease, and institute a new tax. On the other hand, if you drive something that gets 10MPG it would actually save you money to be apart of this program. Once fully implemented I don't think you would be given a choice though (knowing the government doesn't want to collect less tax)

The only reason I bring this up is that I see Colorado potentially implementing something to get the highway fund back up to speed as we all know the road conditions here are... poor to say the least. Rather than make sure the funds already allocated are used properly and are going towards road repair, lets just implement a new tax [facepalm]

http://www.oregon.gov/odot/hwy/rufpp/pages/index.aspx
http://www.myorego.org/
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP...%282013%29.pdf

Maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture here... open for discussion.
05-21-2015, 15:18
def90

Well.. gas taxes and licensing taxes/fees are supposed to fund road projects.. I have no problem with taxing by the mile and maybe tonnage per mile as those that use the roads the most should foot the bill. If they change any of this everyone should be taxed the same though, there shouldn't be different categories that can be opted into or out of based on what you are driving.
05-21-2015, 18:15
milwaukeeshaker

I DO have a problem with it! WTF!!!!! Didn't they just about 4 yrs ago do a sneak around Tabor and raise the license plate "fees" to cover the bridges, and roads in this socialist utopia of ours? So where is all this money going? I just got my license Tag card yesterday for a 1977 pickup. $102 for an FN 38 year old pickup truck!! Give me a break, these jag offs need to stop blowing the money on other pet socialist projects, and apply the stolen loot to the roads and bridges as advertised. These "public servants" are always creative when it comes to stealing more of our money.
05-21-2015, 20:27
theGinsue

Quote:

Originally Posted by def90

Well.. gas taxes and licensing taxes/fees are supposed to fund road projects.. I have no problem with taxing by the mile and maybe tonnage per mile as those that use the roads the most should foot the bill. If they change any of this everyone should be taxed the same though, there shouldn't be different categories that can be opted into or out of based on what you are driving.

Bicyclists riding on public roadways going to start paying their "fair share" then too? They use the roads, they should pay for every mile of usage as well. After all, fair is fair; right?!

I'm absolutely against this sort of taxation system. For now, this just tracks how many miles you drove. This alone can create an invasion of privacy and can give projected insight into your activities and travel habits. Additionally, the tax is "just" $0.015/mile right now. When was the last time you actually saw any .gov entity remain satisfied with an existing taxation level? Want to control the people? Controlling peoples travel controls the people. Increase the amount of taxation/mile to a ridiculous amount and you've achieved your goal of control.

Just my $0.015/mile thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwaukeeshaker

I DO have a problem with it! WTF!!!!! Didn't they just about 4 yrs ago do a sneak around Tabor and raise the license plate "fees" to cover the bridges, and roads in this socialist utopia of ours? So where is all this money going? I just got my license Tag card yesterday for a 1977 pickup. $102 for an FN 38 year old pickup truck!! Give me a break, these jag offs need to stop blowing the money on other pet socialist projects, and apply the stolen loot to the roads and bridges as advertised. These "public servants" are always creative when it comes to stealing more of our money.

I couldn't agree more or have said it any better.
05-21-2015, 20:34
Irving

Will the rate at which you are reimbursed for mileage per employment be adjusted to compensate?
05-21-2015, 20:39
theGinsue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Will the rate at which you are reimbursed for mileage per employment be adjusted to compensate?

From what I've seen from the DoD and many Defense contractors, I doubt it...it's been reduced recently. If other corporations follow that trend, I doubt it would he compensated.
05-21-2015, 21:03
68Charger

Cool, Guess now I can justify buying another big truck rather that some tiny piece of crap tin can my family can't all fit in... Mega cab Diesel truck it is!!!

(my point is, that if you want to influence behavior, change the taxes... this will certainly discourage purchase of fuel efficient vehicles...)
I'm sure they'll just label me as a dirty, filthy Republican that should just conform...

but after Colorado raised "fees" on vehicles, I vowed to never buy another new vehicle... so their taxes are affecting my behavior.
If you think $102 is obscene for a 38 YO vehicle, try the "fees" for a new one... I just won't do it.
05-21-2015, 21:07
Irving

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Charger

Cool, Guess now I can justify buying another big truck rather that some tiny piece of crap tin can my family can't all fit in... Mega cab Diesel truck it is!!!

(my point is, that if you want to influence behavior, change the taxes... this will certainly discourage purchase of fuel efficient vehicles...)
I'm sure they'll just label me as a dirty, filthy Republican that should just conform...

but after Colorado raised "fees" on vehicles, I vowed to never buy another new vehicle... so their taxes are affecting my behavior.
If you think $102 is obscene for a 38 YO vehicle, try the "fees" for a new one... I just won't do it.

I made the same vow after paying over $1,000 for a used Toyota Tacoma. Fortunately, I don't allocate my money toward large car payments so I can't really afford a new car anyway.
05-21-2015, 22:00
68Charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

I made the same vow after paying over $1,000 for a used Toyota Tacoma. Fortunately, I don't allocate my money toward large car payments so I can't really afford a new car anyway.

My wife received a lump sum payment from a life insurance policy/trust fund... we could pay cash- but we won't. We'd rather buy a 8-10 year old vehicle to reduce the taxes.
We need a newer vehicle, and I'd be tempted to buy a brand new truck, but when I hear it will be $1500-2000 for the license tax the 1st year, F that. Mission accomplished, Colorado- you've influenced my behavior by taxing it. Apparently you wanted to reduce new vehicle sales.

Part of me would rather buy a wrecked new truck, and put the drivetrain in my '97 Suburban K2500 body/frame... just to say FU to the increased taxes... but I don't have the time.
05-24-2015, 00:44
DavieD55

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwaukeeshaker

I DO have a problem with it! WTF!!!!! Didn't they just about 4 yrs ago do a sneak around Tabor and raise the license plate "fees" to cover the bridges, and roads in this socialist utopia of ours? So where is all this money going? I just got my license Tag card yesterday for a 1977 pickup. $102 for an FN 38 year old pickup truck!! Give me a break, these jag offs need to stop blowing the money on other pet socialist projects, and apply the stolen loot to the roads and bridges as advertised. These "public servants" are always creative when it comes to stealing more of our money.

http://www.dot.state.wy.us/home/titl...istration.html

[Coffee]
05-24-2015, 05:39
jerrymrc

Being from Oregon myself and going back every year I saw this in the news last summer. The 5-wide Prius formation crowd is up in arms about this. [LOL] I did the math and the break-even point seems to be 20mpg city. Get less and pay the road tax, get more and pay the gas tax.

There will have to be a way to opt in-out because doing away with the gas tax loses tax on non oregon plates. Of course nothing could go wrong with the state putting a GPS in your car right? [panic]
05-24-2015, 06:05
Graves

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Charger

My wife received a lump sum payment from a life insurance policy/trust fund... we could pay cash- but we won't. We'd rather buy a 8-10 year old vehicle to reduce the taxes.
We need a newer vehicle, and I'd be tempted to buy a brand new truck, but when I hear it will be $1500-2000 for the license tax the 1st year, F that. Mission accomplished, Colorado- you've influenced my behavior by taxing it. Apparently you wanted to reduce new vehicle sales.

Part of me would rather buy a wrecked new truck, and put the drivetrain in my '97 Suburban K2500 body/frame... just to say FU to the increased taxes... but I don't have the time.

Then you'll have to fork over the money to retrofit the hardware from the '97 to meet the emmissions requirements of the new chasis.
05-24-2015, 06:51
SAnd

I would expect it to have a minimum miles tax. I would see it as set up so you get charged for 5000 miles and add for miles over that. That way if someone has a vehicle that doesn't get driven much gets to pay their "fair" share. Kinda like the Alternative Minimum Income Tax.
05-24-2015, 07:46
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

Then you'll have to fork over the money to retrofit the hardware from the '97 to meet the emmissions requirements of the new chasis.

Not if he keeps the 97 body with VIN. They go by year of vehicle, not year of drive train. As long as the EPA required items are visible & working it's a non-issue
05-24-2015, 09:03
Aloha_Shooter

I've taken to looking at classic cars. I could buy a nice 60s-era boat-style convertible with partial restoration for less than a new car and not have to worry about embedded GPS or black box. I'll get crap mileage but they can't monitor the gas itself (so far). Only problem so far is that I really don't want to have RWD as my main ride in CO.
05-24-2015, 09:48
SamuraiCO

From Oregon as well. I would be more afraid of next step in the ability to determine speed and create the next level of taxing wasteful use of resources. We all know the level of asshattery of politicians can stoop to when given the opportunity.
05-24-2015, 10:12
Graves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

Not if he keeps the 97 body with VIN. They go by year of vehicle, not year of drive train. As long as the EPA required items are visible & working it's a non-issue

I actually misread; too damn early.
Swaps: Engine or chasis - they go by whichever is newest. If the engine is not being swapped then yes, it is a non-issue.
05-25-2015, 13:52
JohnnyDrama

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Charger

My wife received a lump sum payment from a life insurance policy/trust fund... we could pay cash- but we won't. We'd rather buy a 8-10 year old vehicle to reduce the taxes.
We need a newer vehicle, and I'd be tempted to buy a brand new truck, but when I hear it will be $1500-2000 for the license tax the 1st year, F that. Mission accomplished, Colorado- you've influenced my behavior by taxing it. Apparently you wanted to reduce new vehicle sales.

Part of me would rather buy a wrecked new truck, and put the drivetrain in my '97 Suburban K2500 body/frame... just to say FU to the increased taxes... but I don't have the time.

And there you have it folks. This is no doubt among one of the leading reasons Detroit is in ruins....
05-25-2015, 15:21
68Charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

Then you'll have to fork over the money to retrofit the hardware from the '97 to meet the emmissions requirements of the new chasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

I actually misread; too damn early.
Swaps: Engine or chasis - they go by whichever is newest. If the engine is not being swapped then yes, it is a non-issue.

What is this Emissions you speak of? Who is "they"?

One of the advantages of living in the Stix... the only thing they inspect here is the VIN if it comes from out of state. After that, they never see the vehicle.... registration renewals thru the mail... I think the state wants to know if I change fuel types (gas to Diesel, or electric conversion), but I don't see how they'd enforce anything out here...
05-25-2015, 17:44
Zundfolge

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Charger

What is this Emissions you speak of? Who is "they"?

One of the advantages of living in the Stix... the only thing they inspect here is the VIN if it comes from out of state. After that, they never see the vehicle.... registration renewals thru the mail... I think the state wants to know if I change fuel types (gas to Diesel, or electric conversion), but I don't see how they'd enforce anything out here...

Colorado Springs isn't exactly "the stix" ... we were taken out of the AIR program several years ago (which was great because I had a 1970 Porsche 914 I could NEVER get to pass emissions ... what with a pair of 40mm Weber IDFs, headers w/Supertrapp and somewhat aggressive cam).
05-25-2015, 22:55
68Charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Colorado Springs isn't exactly "the stix" ... we were taken out of the AIR program several years ago (which was great because I had a 1970 Porsche 914 I could NEVER get to pass emissions ... what with a pair of 40mm Weber IDFs, headers w/Supertrapp and somewhat aggressive cam).

I never said COS was... But they DID have emissions testing for years, including when I moved out to the stix... Where they never had testing.
05-25-2015, 23:19
sniper7

I would really like to not have to worry about emissions.
05-26-2015, 20:01
theGinsue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Colorado Springs isn't exactly "the stix" ... we were taken out of the AIR program several years ago (which was great because I had a 1970 Porsche 914 I could NEVER get to pass emissions ... what with a pair of 40mm Weber IDFs, headers w/Supertrapp and somewhat aggressive cam).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Charger

I never said COS was... But they DID have emissions testing for years, including when I moved out to the stix... Where they never had testing.

Parts of El Paso County (including COS) still have emissions testing for diesel vehicles. I have to get it done regularly for my '05 F250.
05-26-2015, 20:52
Irving

If the government taxed funerals as heavily as they taxed gasoline, there would have been a safety tax on vehicles with airbags 30 years ago.
06-08-2015, 23:02
YammyMonkey

As for the license plate fees, when I bought a 2014 Ram, the registration was $600-something. I used the plates from my old vehicle (sometimes not an option) but even if I had to buy new plates it wouldn't be $1500-2000 unless you're spending close to $100k on the vehicle.
06-09-2015, 06:12
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zundfolge

Colorado Springs isn't exactly "the stix" ... we were taken out of the AIR program several years ago (which was great because I had a 1970 Porsche 914 I could NEVER get to pass emissions ... what with a pair of 40mm Weber IDFs, headers w/Supertrapp and somewhat aggressive cam).

Likewise up here. I use to tell people the only reason they moved here was to avoid emissions testing, Not the quality of life. NOW we're stuck with this clean air testing, that has not made any difference.
06-09-2015, 09:02
68Charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by YammyMonkey

As for the license plate fees, when I bought a 2014 Ram, the registration was $600-something. I used the plates from my old vehicle (sometimes not an option) but even if I had to buy new plates it wouldn't be $1500-2000 unless you're spending close to $100k on the vehicle.

A friend at work insisted he spent well over $1000 on plates for his F150...
I see they now have calculators on county sites, before it was a complete mystery/surprise. (below are from El Paso County calculator)
a 2015 with an MSRP of $62k would be:
Estimate = $1,219.70

Taxable Value (85% of MSRP) = $52,700.00
multiplied by Year of Vehicle Rate = .021
plus the estimated cost by Type of Vehicle = $113.00
ESTIMATED TOTAL = $1,219.70

my 2007 I just bought will be $278, (there is a different tax rate for age of vehicle):

Quote:

To manually calculate an estimate of fees multiply the taxable value listed on the title or using the calculation listed above with the appropriate factor. If the vehicle year is the current or next year's model multiply the taxable value by .021, if the vehicle is in its second year of service, multiply the taxable value by .015. For vehicles in the third year of service multiply by .012 and in the fourth year of service .009. If the vehicle is five to nine years old multiply by .0045. In the tenth year of service the passenger and light truck vehicles reach a minimum of a $3.00 ownership tax.

Estimate = $278.30

Taxable Value (85% of MSRP) = $36,732.75
multiplied by Year of Vehicle Rate = .0045
plus the estimated cost by Type of Vehicle = $113.00
ESTIMATED TOTAL = $278.30

Just for grins... a 2015+ with a taxable value of $66,300: (nope, don't have to have $100K truck to go over $1500 in registration)
Estimate = $1,505.30

Taxable Value (85% of MSRP) = $66,300.00
multiplied by Year of Vehicle Rate = .021
plus the estimated cost by Type of Vehicle = $113.00
ESTIMATED TOTAL = $1,505.30

The point is, they discourage me from buying a new vehicle by raising taxes on it. I'll stay around the 10+ year old range so I get the flat $3 tax.
This doesn't even include sales tax, which I won't pay by buying my auto parts online and having them shipped. (Yes, I'll buy more auto parts for my older vehicles, but since I saved thousands in sales tax buying a used truck rather than a new one I can more afford to do that)

So once again Colorado misses out on the tax, they'll get the $1200 or so I'll be paying in sales tax for the truck I bought, but if I need to buy spendy parts for it (like EFI Live & exhaust), I'm more likely to buy them out-of-state if I save money that way.
06-11-2015, 15:14
fj605

Back to the OP, how's it work when you're out of state? Oregon going to tax you for driving in another state?
06-22-2015, 21:20
mightiestmouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by fj605

Back to the OP, how's it work when you're out of state? Oregon going to tax you for driving in another state?

I'm no longer an Oregon resident and only drive family cars when visiting. Just over 3 weeks in Omaha now after leaving Denver and found out real quick that property taxes are crazy here (about 4k on a 200k home). I'm convinced that all states will get their money one way or another even if you believe the state works more towards your interests.

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