Opinions on Pistol Caliber carbines

So I'm getting the pistol caliber carbine itch (not least because family events have conspired to keep me from attending the Tactical Rifle match much this year). I'm thinking of dropping some coin on a pistol caliber carbine but can't figure out which ones are good and work and which don't.

I'm leaning somewhat to Glock magazine pattern because I've got a stock of those damn things. So which of the AR style setups work? Saw a CMMG AR9 Guard at a shop recently and it looked good but the price tag of $1500+ versus the Ruger PCC made me want to make sure that it was going to be successful.

Opinions?

I love my CZ scorpion


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I'm rather fond of lever-operated PCC's.....

It is hard to beat a tube fed lever gun in the caliber that matches your revolver. With that said, my suggestion would be a Quarter Circle 10 lower that takes Glock magazines. Upper of your choice with a bolt for the appropriate caliber and barrel also from QC10. You will need to fiddle with the buffer and BCG travel but once it is running consistently, you will enjoy it.

The least expensive option is a Kel Tec Sub2000. Takes a little getting used to the cheek weld and eye position for the sights but they run, take almost no space when folded, and they are pretty simple blow back guns.

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Originally Posted by rondog

I'm rather fond of lever-operated PCC's.....

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Well .... it IS the 21st Century [Coffee]

Love my CZ Scorpion, but my AR9 carbine is the funnest firearm I got. Building up a AR9 pistol for the wife right now

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

Well .... it IS the 21st Century [Coffee]

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Some of us old coots prefer old tech.....

What will be the primary use of the PCC? Competition - how often, home defense, truck gun, plinking...

I've shot most PCCs, and probably have more corporate knowledge about setting up the ARs in 9mm for competition than anyone else in the front range. There are shortfalls to every set up out there, and some are much better than others. PCCs are evolving at a pretty rapid pace now a days with their introduction into USPSA and IDPA.

I built a AR pattern Glock mag 16" PCC a couple years ago. Even though I had a handful of parts like a stock and a few lower items and didn't go for the top end match-grade stuff besides the trigger (more on that later) I still spent about $1000 when it was all done. I used a Glock ready lower and Primary Arms parts for the bolt carrier, buffer, and some other stuff. After the first pass I was getting hammer follow double firing. A Hiperfire trigger fixed that (and I really like them). It also needs Glock mags. I had 3 ETS mags break. Coincidence? Maybe. Sounds like if SA Friday has any advice you should listen.

All that being out there I LOVE that gun. It's way more satisfying to shoot than .22's and I can shoot steel in a berm safely and without wrecking it. It's also a big hit with newer shooters and a great way to expose someone to AR's.

Would I do it again? I'm not sure. Somewhat soon I want a pistol/sbr 9mm and I'll probably get a CZ.

If you're going to compete you need to do a full carbine size or an sbr. I think it's a faux pas if you shoulder pistol braced gun at a match. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

Following this thread, was planning to start a 9mm pistol length AR soon. Some good info so far, hadn't thought about requirements for PCC competitions.

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Originally Posted by Fromk

I think it's a faux pas if you shoulder pistol braced gun at a match. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

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Inquiring minds want to know if this is true.

Kriss Vector pistol. Short barrel, arm brace, takes glock mags. They make it many calibers and mine is in 9mm and its suppressor ready. Only about $1,300. Maybe a little high but worth it in the long run. Low recoil too due to the bolt carrier style of going back and down. I have quite a few PCC and I have no favorite. I built a glock lower poly80 or something like that and a mechtech 9mm upper and its fun too. About $700 + free time to finish and its ghostly. PS90. MP5 clone. All good guns. I bought an UZI and its very cool but obsolete and heavy. Sorry if my babbling doesn't make sense. Don't get me started on all the guns I like, own and studied. The AR looks weird with the glock mag because its canted backwards. The colt version with the vertical mag looks better. But if you can get either at a good price I'm sure you will get used to the looks. But if you go for looks you are going to have dig out all your colt mags that you had before freedom was hit and run. And build your collection back up.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

Inquiring minds want to know if this is true.

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Only if you win.

I am partial to mine. 7.62X25. Under 6lbs. Attachment 75182 And I bought an AR conversion in this caliber but hated it.

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Originally Posted by Fromk

I think it's a faux pas if you shoulder pistol braced gun at a match. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

Inquiring minds want to know if this is true.

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Untrue, as the ATF passed down another revision regarding shouldering of a brace. How those running the match fell is another story. Some don't care, others are worse than an anti gun neighbor.


Regarding the OP's inquiry.

Using the multitude of spare AR parts i've built more than 1 9mm PCC for under the $4-500 range. All ran fine and performed as expected, using glock mags. My latest 16" build was off a NFA glock mag lower and binary trigger, just because.

With that said, the newest addition was the Ruger 9m PCC takedown w/ threaded bbl. Why one ask? Mainly because it's actually CA compliant (no e vel AR type features) so it's now my go to for CA trips, providing i pack the 10 rd G26 mags.

Performance wise, ANY round i loaded worked w/out issue from ANY mag used. Including those pre 2013 Korean / KCI mags. Disclosure: i replaced the weak kci springs with factory glocks, as they would give me issues with FTFeed in the AR pcc's. Side x side the noticeable difference in spring height was clear , like an inch.

Using the factory irons both johnny ego and myself, were consistently doing 1/2 dollar sized 25 yd groups off hand, down to a quarter sized ones off the bench. Same for RDS operation.

Recoil was barely noticeable, shouldering a basic rifle config PCC while not an AR was comfortable, as well as cheek weld. When i get time i will install a 45 deg offset mount for the RDS so i can run both irons and rds.

POI shift when running suppressed was noticeable, but not anything that wasn't resolved with a few tweaks of the rds adjusters. IMO for the money, unless it must be an AR platform PCC, spend 1/2 the money on the Ruger Takedown 9mm PCC, spend the rest on ammo, or a suppressor.

Outside the JRC PCC carbines which are also very nice for the money. The ruger, like the JRC, is the only other (to my knowledge) at this time PCC that allows you to operate it as a right or left hand shooter, with simple change to the other side of the charging handle.
The ruger however allows mag release r-l change with gen 4 mags as well. This is part of the price unlike AR style PCC's where any option other than a right hand shooter will run some $$ As for the Kriss, heavy, bulky over priced unit. IMO lousey customer service based on my interaction a few years back.
YMMV

I love my FX-9:
https://freedomordnance.com/fx-9-9mm-carbine/
I had a minor problem (frankly due to my own dicking around with it [Flower]) and their customer service was amazing: full fcg and bolt assembly replacement at no charge, shipping included...
The aesthetics are very pleasing and balanced and it just works!
Here's a pic of mine:

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

What will be the primary use of the PCC? Competition - how often, home defense, truck gun, plinking...

I've shot most PCCs, and probably have more corporate knowledge about setting up the ARs in 9mm for competition than anyone else in the front range. There are shortfalls to every set up out there, and some are much better than others. PCCs are evolving at a pretty rapid pace now a days with their introduction into USPSA and IDPA.

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Sean, the main purpose is to use it in USPSA PCC class. So you can beat me in more divisions. I'm hoping to get out more often next year now that some family stuff has resolved.

I have the Kel Tech 40 caliber with glock magazines, never had a problem with it at all.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

Sean, the main purpose is to use it in USPSA PCC class. So you can beat me in more divisions. I'm hoping to get out more often next year now that some family stuff has resolved.

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When it comes to "what equipment is best," everyone has a strong opinion as to why they chose the platform they did. It may not be a bad idea to go to a USPSA match or two and see what other competitors are running.

There are many great PCC choices in the market right now. Additionally, (as Sean very well pointed out) this market is still fast-evolving and there are many new platforms that will be joining the race in months/years to come.

What? And not troll Sean for his advice? Pshaw.

Pistol braces are NOT allowed for uspsa matches. It's in the rule book.