https://kdvr.com/2019/03/01/colorado...-gas-drilling/
Even though it won't do any good, CO is a blue state and that won't be changing, make sure to write your reps/senators about this...
They tried to do this last year on the ballot with 112, the voters said NO.
But as has been expected in the O/G circles, they are going to cram it down our throats via legislation since they have the majorities and the governor...
Sure is going to be interesting someday when most manufacturing, farm equipment, and the food delivery trucks are halted. [cigar]
Blue today. But holding out.[emoji51] Cutting their nose off, despite their face. Stupid! Good jobs and tax revenue will dry-up.
I just shake my head why in the world anyone would vote for these people. Look around and you can see the stupidity and the irrational thought process and eventually the unintended consequences.
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No kidding![emoji3525]Quote:
Originally Posted by DavieD55
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If, and that is a big IF, the conservatives/republicans ever take control back I certainly hope they take the same scorched earth policy. I'm tired of the 'keep voting until we get our way and then it is settled law' bull flop.
"Industry and environmental groups were reviewing the 27-page bill and had no immediate comment."
Could that be because it's so well written like most of the other "virtue signalling" legislation coming out lately?
I'm no fan of either side but the owners of the mineral rights usurp the top side owners. There are state agencies in place to regulate the extraction.
Another way the urban mecca projects it's power against the "dirt people." Democracy doesn't matter, so they're going to increase the cost of living in this state no matter what.
I think the O&G industry should cut anyone off who uses government to stomp on our throats. Like CA suing companies... Gov has been the biggest user and will continue to use.
The will of the people be damned. If they can't do it with a ballot initiative then they'll do it via party line vote. Just keep narrowing the voting pool until you get the result you want and scream 'THE LAW IS SETTLED'. I hope that if the conservatives ever regain power that we take the same scorched earth policy towards negotiation we see with UBC, mag bans, O&G, ERPO, etc.
I have to ask...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
Can you explain your comment about mineral rights owners usurping surface owners? The connotation of what you wrote is extremely misleading, and I figure I better ask what you mean before I ramble on about how that whole relationship actually works.
Mineral owners can come onto a property and exercise their rights to extract minerals. I am no expert on this and do not know the details or procedures. Look at the oil/gas exploration in Weld and Larimer counties. It is common for land to be sold without the mineral rights intact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
Okay, so you don't understand what is happening, and by assumption used the word "usurp" which puts an incorrect connotation of "illegal" or "by force" on the concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
That was what I figured...
Surface owners are made ABUNDANTLY clear what rights they are buying before purchase. Those rights may be limited to surface only, surface and water, or surface/water/mineral. If someone buys a parcel of land without mineral rights, they have to understand that someone else owns the mineral rights. If they don't, that's just a "head in the sand" attitude that will only harm them.
Once the owner of the mineral rights decides to pursue producing them, they must work with the surface owner to come to a mutually acceptable agreement concerning the use of the surface for well heads, production assets, etc... Most often, this is handled in the form of a land lease for enough space to create an access road and a production pad. This will be a fairly small amount of space, but they are paid (monthly/annually/lump sum) for the use of that land. These agreements include details of all sorts, to include how the land will be returned to existing condition when the wells are P&A'd and the pad is removed (future).
The surface owners have the right to refuse leasing their land to the production group, which often results in the production company making a deal with their neighbors to place the pad there, and then use directional drilling to develop their assets... This leads to a LOT of pissed off idiots who scream about how the O/G companies are "cheating them" and "not paying what they should be" etc... I call them idiots because they had their chance, said no, and then get pissed when their neighbor is getting paid for the land use. (I am friends with a family that did exactly this, and they are still bitter against the company despite having been offered the chance to make the money themselves.)
ETA: I will throw this in there...
Property buyers are made abundantly aware of what they are buying, whether they read the details or not. One of the current issues has some dumb broad who claims "she didn't know she owned mineral rights". This means that she didn't pay attention when purchasing her home however many years ago. It was all handled in the contract.
ETA2: Buying and selling of mineral rights has been going on for a LONG time in the US, one of the last places on the earth where private individuals are allowed to own mineral rights. In the case of my friends family, their family bought a large piece of land several generations ago, and the forebear sold off the mineral rights for liquid capital to build a new shop and start a business out of it. There was a lot of anti-O/G whining from them when they found out they weren't going to be getting any royalties from the production, but they have no legal claim to it. Just because whoever sold them off doesn't own the property anymore doesn't negate the deal that was made for the mineral rights.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ah Pook
My boss was looking at a property that had a rig on it, the owner wanted to sell the house but retain the mineral rights and oil lease royalties.
Thank you Grant H.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
Slant drilling... Rumaila oil fields... HW stating, "If Iraq invades Kuwait, the US would consider that an Arab issue."... Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait... PR firm lying about Iraqi soldiers bayoneting babies in incubators in Kuwait City (who could it be now?)... The inspiration of UBL's hatred for the KSA and USA solidified... ... 9/11... perfect excuse to go into Iraq... med board... VA mortgage loan... paranoid refusal of oil/gas exploration w/ lease fee... slant drilling... MFW:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...96/564/2f7.jpg
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
I am all for property rights, which are rapidly being eroded in this country, but I hate seeing misinformation used to vilify the industry.
Private property rights trump almost all others. I'm trying to think what private property doesn't trump, can you help me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
Consider this board, it is private property, there is freedom of speech here but there is a line too. Just like my home, if someone in my house exercises his first amendment rights in a manner I disagree with I can boot him out of my house.
I can tell people visiting my home they can't their gun inside my doors, I can search anything I want within the confines of my own home. My house, my rules.
If I go into someone else's house they can tell me no guns, I have a choice to make, go into their house w/o my gun or go someplace else.
Some levels of property rights are protected, like the ones you are suggesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
However, eminent domain is becoming widely used to the detriment of property rights, especially by for-profit companies.
Eminent domain is theft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
The SC earned my eternal animosity (unless they reverse it) after Kelo v. The thieving fucking assholes of New London.
Some developers (builders) are retaining the mineral rights when they develop an area knowing that they can double dip on the property and are not very forthcoming with that information when the homes are sold. Anthem Ranch in Broomfield comes to mind. Huge developments are going up faster than drilling permits can be approved and the wells scheduled for drilling. That said, residents up in the Weld/Broomfield/Boulder county area were up in arms with the number of individual wells. The O&G companies said okay, we'll directional drill more wells from fewer locations which spun the people up even more because of the MEGA PADs. These are the same people that look at a rig and say 'they're fracking'. They refuse to educate themselves beyond reading MotherJones or accept that the developments are encroaching on an actively developing gas field faster than the wells can be finished. Nor do they want to accept the fact that O&G development companies commit a lot of money into the communities. Erie, Lafayette and surrounding areas have some pretty swanky community centers that were greatly helped by O&G.
I was at the capital today.
We were informed it will be pushed through tomorrow or Wednesday.
Unfortunately, not surprised...
As I mentioned, all of the producers that I work with have been expecting something along these lines since the outcome of the election. None of us thought it would take very long, and sure enough... Here we go...
Be curious how this plays out against already defined limits by the CO State Supreme Court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
If anyone forgets how some of this got rolling.
Look no further than the .guv him (or)herself . Polis Never had an issue with O&G, till..................they erected a rig in view of his home.
THEN...............it was the evil O&G corps who were destroying the environment. Up till then, not an issue with that guy/gal.
Part of the issue why this (and gun control) are now a winning argument for DEMs is that the parties right now are more split on Urban / Rural lines than anything else. The DEMs have become an urban party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
They have the votes Denver/Boulder/Burbs to get this done. Basically, the burbs don't want drilling in near them. Having drilling near the burbs is not a winning position for oil and gas. NIMBY is at play.
I give a lot of credit to Oil and Gas for their current predicament. When the burbs didnt want them there, o&G fought to be near the burbs. And when O&G forcibly brings a rural industry to the door steps of the burbs, it is clear O&G wont have the votes to stop new laws.
NIMBY is a strong motivator. Right or wrong NIMBY is how many people react.
If liberals don't like oil & gas, then stop using it.
Stop using it in any shape form or fashion. Don't use it to charge your electric car. Don't use it to power or heat your home. Don't use any of the plastics or synthetic fibers. Don't live in a home that uses any of it for materials. Don't use any agricultural products where O&G had any part in making it available for consumption. Don't use any of its products or byproducts used in your healthcare. Don't buy anything where O&G had any part of the process for obtaining materials, fabrication, or delivery to you.
After all, if there was no demand or viable alternatives, there would be no need for it.
In the meantime, let's see if you die first from exposure or starvation.
...or boredom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Hard to be bored when you're foraging for food.
Um, throwing a temper tantrum isnt 'foraging'
& I digress.
I've made these points before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
We make the HUGE assumption that the typical liberal is even aware that everything they use is related in some way to fossil fuels. They aren't aware, they have no concept of the future, all they know is how they feel at this point in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Likewise. When you point this out, the playbook response is. You're a denier and ignorant of the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
The vegans are as bad. Umm you do realize those sandals (leather) are made from an animals hide? [panic]
But they're cruelty free. Really? lets kill your friend and skin them. Tell me how cruelty free that is. .................... crickets
Polis mentioned this during his speech after the election. It?s the typical the voters are too stupid for their own good, so we are going to put it in place anyway.
Thank you for the clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
Did this bill just get canned? I am sitting at the bar at the Rio in Boulder enjoying a margarita and the lady next to me is looking at her phone and gets all huffy and is gesturing and saying things out loud about a bill being shut down in committee and how horrible it is as if she wants me to respond, I don't.
She eventually calls someone and leaves a voicemail asking what's going on.. she then gets on the phone with someone and she starts talking to the person on the other end saying that she thought the idea was to get the bill out there fast and get it passed before oil and gas could get enough people rallied to make a difference.. the conversation trails off as she gets up to leave while still gabbing on the phone
Fucking bitch
It appeared before Senate Transportation and Energy committee today:
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb19-181
No updated status officially that I could find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by def90
It will go through. It was introduced Friday at 4:30pm. The hearing was today. That doesnt happen in a normal time. See my my comments above what we were told at the capital yesterday. It will be pushed through.
Right now the only question is how much damage can the minority party mitigate.
Gotta love the people that represent us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT951
It passed it's first committee vote... On precisely party lines.
On to it's next vote, which I believe is one more committee.
It's sad to see CO get fawked over like this.
So you lost the opportunity for a quickie barroom rub n tug.Quote:
Originally Posted by def90
I think this will accelerate the housing market crash in Colorado.
Not really. It will lure "green" minded people here, even more. However this will have to be settled in court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving