Thoughts on "A Good Protection Idea"

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12-30-2009, 11:17
Batteriesnare

Thoughts on "A Good Protection Idea"

I received the following email from a person who is very close to me, and one who doesn't appreciate firearms for self defense. Following the article is my response. Thoughts?

A Good protection Idea

If you don't have a gun, here's a more humane
way to wreck someone's evil plans for you.
Did you know this? I didn't. I never really
thought of it before. I guess I can get rid of the baseball bat ...
Val Galinka teaches self-defense to students at Sylvania Southview High School . For
decades, he's suggested putting a can of wasp and hornet spray near your door or bed. Glinka says, "This is better than anything I can teach them." Glinka considers it inexpensive, easy to find, and more effective than mace or
pepper spray. The cans typically shoot 20 to 30 feet; so if someone tries to break into your home, Glinka says "spray the culprit in the eyes". It's a tip he's given to students for decades.
It's also one he wants everyone to hear. If you're looking for protection, Glinka says look to the spray.. "That's going to give you a chance to call the police; maybe get out." Maybe even save a life. This is a great idea, for women and for older folks.

Wasp Spray

A friend who is a receptionist in a church
asked the local Police Department about using pepper spray and they recommended to her that she get a can of wasp spray instead. The wasp spray, they told her, can shoot up to
twenty feet away and is a lot more accurate, with the pepper spray, they have to get too close to and could overpower you. The wasp spray temporarily blinds an attacker until
they get to the hospital for an antidote. She keeps a can on her desk in the office and it doesn't attract attention from people like a can of pepper spray would. She also keeps one nearby at home for home protection. A can in the car would also be a good place to keep one.

MY RESPONSE:

Interesting, but I don't think that is a good idea. Presenting a can of spray, especially if the intruder is armed is only going to inflame the situation, and if they have a gun, you just brought the proverbial knife to a gun fight. You'd better hope that goes 30 feet accurately (keep in mind that's 10 yards, how many spaces in your home are longer than 10 yards? That means you have to get closer to engage the person, shortening the distance they have to travel to harm you, and the amount of time that you have to escape or make a decision under pressure.) Presenting the business end of a firearm to an intruder unless they are equally armed with most likely cause them to flee. Even if they do have a gun, most criminals aren't expecting you to fight back (studies show) and will be so shocked they will leave, if not, give them three thousand times their daily allotment of lead. (If they are in your home, absolutely legal - "Make My Day Law" and remember the phrase "I feared for my life.") You don't have to get closer, and you don't have to aim specifically for their eyes (keep in mind how small the eyes are of a target, especially at ten yards, without a sighting system on a can of wasp spray.)

If someone was intent on harming you, aggravating them is probably a worse idea than just letting them do what they want.

Two to the chest, one to the head. Repeat.

See you soon,

Thoughts????
12-30-2009, 11:31
mutt

100% agree wasp spray is a bad idea. Seriously, why would you want to be humane to someone who has broken into your house and probably intends to do you bodily harm?
This whole pacifist attitude is beyond me. I'm peaceful till you fuck with me and at that point the only life I'm interested in saving is my family's and my own.

That people actually think wasp spray is a valid self-defense method only reinforces my belief that only stupid people are breeding.
12-30-2009, 11:32
jim02

so what if i see you and turn my head and close my eyes, or have glasses on, im not a big fan of a spray as my home defense.
seems silly.
12-30-2009, 11:34
jake

Personally, I think if someone doesn't appreciate guns for whatever reason but isn't of the 'ban them all' persuasion, I'm happy to respect their beliefs and maybe gently try and persuade them otherwise.

My wife (a liberal like me) doesn't really like guns herself, thinks a 9mm is too loud (I'm working on getting a .22 to see if I can get her to come to the range with me - but there are just too many bigger ones I want first!) but doesn't have a problem with me or anyone else (with the usual caveats) owning them for defence, hunting or sport. I can live with that.
12-30-2009, 11:37
Batteriesnare

The person who sent this to me is of the "I've never needed one in my life, why do you need one?" We live in the same residence, so it has been a point of contention at times.
12-30-2009, 11:40
jake

Yeah, I was going to add that it would depend on whether the context of the conversation was "as you know, I don't like guns, so what do you think of this as an alternative for me?" or "why don't YOU get rid of all your guns because this is a MUCH better idea."

In that case I'm all for your reply :D
12-30-2009, 13:10
Irving

I've known people to carry a ketchup bottle (the ones you find at hotdog stands, not the grocery store) full of Ammonia. The guy said he used it on a purse snatcher once. Sprayed it on the front of his shirt and it instantly brought him to his knees because he couldn't breath. When the police showed up, one of the officers asked him why the hell he just happened to be carrying a bottle of ammonia around with him. The guy responded that he liked to keep his windshield clean and the cop just snickered because he knew he was bullshitting him.

I don't know. I've been maced before, but never directly into my eyes.

Your friend is broken. Using wasp spray is no different than using a gun or a vat of boiling oil or acid or something. Just the idea is a logic failure. "I don't want to hurt someone with a gun, but I'll hurt them with countless other things that suit my fancy instead." Just the idea that someone thinks it's okay to spray a toxic chemical into someone's eyes is okay, but shooting them with a gun is not okay, is all you need to know. Ask your friend if they would feel comfortable spraying hydrochloric acid or bleach directly into someone's eyes. They will likely says "Yes, as long as it's not a gun."

Is your friend the same kind of person who jumped on the SUV hating bandwagon a few years ago when there were roll over accidents? Constantly reminding people that SUV's can roll over, as if dying in a roll over accident is any worse than dying in any other kind of roll over accident?

There is an episode of Penn and Teller's BULLSHIT where they interview this lady that is against swearing. So she teaches her students to say Budda Damnit instead of God Damnit, and instead of flipping the bird, she created some elaborate way to use BOTH hands in order to flash someone the "whole turkey." She went through all this trouble to make substitute names for regular curse words, and went on and on about how that was better. It's the same damn thing, with the same intention behind it. Why waste your time trying to be creative and just get the job done the best way that you can? [/rant]

Finally, suggest to your friend that he/she just keep a bottle of wasp spray by their bed, and in the event of a break in, spray THEMSELVES in the face with the spray. Then the burglar will see that they are already incapacitated and leave them alone right? Makes perfect sense.
12-30-2009, 13:20
Zundfolge

One problem with any sort of spray bottle (with the exception of some pepper spray canisters) is that they don't automatically orient the "business end" of the spray nozzle at your target when you grab them ... in the dark ... while half awake ... and suffering from fear and the accompanying massive adrenaline dump. A gun does.

Also, if you spray someone with the wasp spray and it DOESN'T dissuade them from proceeding, then what?
12-30-2009, 13:22
Irving

Why not just hang a wasps nest in each room?
12-30-2009, 13:45
bellavite1

If I close my eyes and pretend they are not there will they go away?[Shake]
12-30-2009, 13:48
Irving

I also call bs on the police suggesting to the public ways to poison or permanently blind people. That's the same as having a police officer tell you, "Well, why don't you just break their knees with a baseball bat?"
12-30-2009, 14:23
Pistol Packing Preacher

Just call 911...

Doh!

[Coffee]
12-30-2009, 14:37
Circuits

Wasp spray is fine, as long as you combine it with a lighter.
12-30-2009, 15:11
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuits

Wasp spray is fine, as long as you combine it with a lighter.

Beat me to it...[M2]
12-30-2009, 15:26
GreenScoutII

Well, my wife used to be a good, gun hating Democrat.. I converted her to our faith. She used to carry pepper spray. Better than nothing I suppose, but she discovered pistols are way more empowering for women.

I had a thought about the wasp spray. We live in a very litigous society. It is probably not too much of a stretch that some criminal scum bag could get a slick lawyer and sue you for blinding him with it. I mean, if I'm in a situation where I'm going to be attacked, there are going to be legal issues if I respond with force. May as well eliminate the threat permanantly. A .45 will do that, wasp spray will not.
12-30-2009, 15:29
Irving

Using wasp spray will be viewed the same as using poison tipped arrows/bullets.

Battierisnare, kindly tell your friend that this trash email, like pretty much EVERY email passed around, is less than well thought out.
12-30-2009, 15:34
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenScoutII

I mean, if I'm in a situation where I'm going to be attacked, there are going to be legal issues if I respond with force. May as well eliminate the threat permanantly. A .45 will do that, wasp spray will not.

GSII, I really like the way you think man. +1 just for the heck of it!
12-30-2009, 15:40
SA Friday

Not all wasp sprays are the same. Some freeze, some are chemical agents. Some of those chemical agents are sub-derivatives of sarin; a nerve agent. Sooooo, you are shooting them in the face with something with a huge likelyhood of causing permanent blindness.

Second, you have to assume any less-than-lethal spray weapon is going to get in your face too. There is a reason they make cops get shot in the face with OC spray and take a ride on the lightning with a taser before they will allow them to carry it, especially any spraying agent. You have to deal with the overspray and fight through it.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think I would prefer to defend myself in a civil suit from a shooting over the wasp spray. The laws are more cut and dry, and intentionally blinding someone leaves a live witness that a jury can sit there and look at through a trial. I've just seen too many weird things in court to want a blind sympathetic plaintiff dirt bag suing me over wasp spray.

They make OC canisters the size of small fire extinguishers and they spray just as far as wasp spray. If your friend refuses to relinquish their adversion to firearms, this is what I would recommend.

Some people can't let go of their belief in humanity, society, higher powers, whatever... and see reality. They rely soley on the kindness of others as their only defense in life, as do we all to a certain extent. It works out most of the time, but you only have to be wrong once. Terminal victim attitude. I hope it works out for them, or they survive to learn the reality of the big ugly in the world. It's all you can do.
12-30-2009, 16:04
jason303

Sounds great. I'd keep a can by the bed if I had nothing else.
Luckily, I am fortunate enough to own a shotgun. Thanks and good luck.

P.S. I bet the sound of a shell being pumped into the chamber works
better than yelling "You better leave or I'll shoot... my can of pest
repellant." A plus is that my shotgun sound doesn't need to be
translated into another language.
12-30-2009, 17:24
Elhuero

wasp spray can be defeated by holding your arm up over your face. Bullets can not.
12-30-2009, 19:30
Troublco

I can only imagine what a jury would do with someone who sprayed that nasty wasp spray (which I'm sure their lawyer would point out the nerve agent connection, likely whether or not it was that kind) into the face of some poor, misunderstood and underprivileged punk. Those folks win lawsuits in some states because they were shot by the homeowner, after they admit they broke into the person's home! So if they get to court and tell some sob story about their life being ruined because they were blinded, I'll bet you that they win in MANY more cases than they should, which in my opinion would be any. However, if you simply use a .45 (or other caliber of your choice) to stop the "fear for your life" then there's no perp there to sob for the jury.
12-30-2009, 19:36
Batteriesnare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublco

I can only imagine what a jury would do with someone who sprayed that nasty wasp spray (which I'm sure their lawyer would point out the nerve agent connection, likely whether or not it was that kind) into the face of some poor, misunderstood and underprivileged punk. Those folks win lawsuits in some states because they were shot by the homeowner, after they admit they broke into the person's home! So if they get to court and tell some sob story about their life being ruined because they were blinded, I'll bet you that they win in MANY more cases than they should, which in my opinion would be any. However, if you simply use a .45 (or other caliber of your choice) to stop the "fear for your life" then there's no perp there to sob for the jury.

Can't say it much better than that!

Thank you all for your thoughts!!
12-30-2009, 21:37
theGinsue

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA Friday

Some of those chemical agents are sub-derivatives of sarin; a nerve agent.

This, I did not know. I love being the indirect recipient of all of your training. Every week I get at least one more piece of awesome knowledge from you. Keep it up! (I need it.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA Friday

Some people can't let go of their belief in humanity, society, higher powers, whatever... and see reality. They rely soley on the kindness of others as their only defense in life, as do we all to a certain extent. It works out most of the time, but you only have to be wrong once. Terminal victim attitude. I hope it works out for them, or they survive to learn the reality of the big ugly in the world. It's all you can do.

Agreed.

Sadly, I seen cases where these folks who "respect life so much that they would never consider owning a gun to protect their lives or the lives of their family" end up injured themselves or losing a family member. But I guess that's alright since the criminal wasn't seriously harmed.

This "run away from the bad guy" attitude some folks have disturbs me. I can imagine one of these folks outrunning their spouse or kids and letting them fend for themselves against the criminals.
12-31-2009, 10:23
StagLefty

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellavite1

If I close my eyes and pretend they are not there will they go away?[Shake]

That only works for those middle of the night Zombie attacks. [Beer]
12-31-2009, 10:30
Graves

Better than nothing I guess. I'd rather dose em with a few 230gr sleeping pills so I know he won't get a lucky shot in on me.
12-31-2009, 10:38
SU405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublco

I can only imagine what a jury would do with someone who sprayed that nasty wasp spray (which I'm sure their lawyer would point out the nerve agent connection, likely whether or not it was that kind) into the face of some poor, misunderstood and underprivileged punk. Those folks win lawsuits in some states because they were shot by the homeowner, after they admit they broke into the person's home! So if they get to court and tell some sob story about their life being ruined because they were blinded, I'll bet you that they win in MANY more cases than they should, which in my opinion would be any. However, if you simply use a .45 (or other caliber of your choice) to stop the "fear for your life" then there's no perp there to sob for the jury.

Big +1. It's always better when there is only one side to a story. In this scenario the good guy/home owner.
12-31-2009, 13:03
TFOGGER

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuits

Wasp spray is fine, as long as you combine it with a lighter.

[ROFL1]

My wife used to be a card carrying liberal democrat... "Why do you need all of those GUNS?"....Now she has her own .45...."When are we going to the range again?"...

She carries a canister of OC/CS spray at work, because she works on a University of Colorado campus, but her .45 is always with her elsewhere....and lately she sounds a lot more libertarian than Democrap or Republican't....
12-31-2009, 13:44
sniper7

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFOGGER

[ROFL1]

My wife used to be a card carrying liberal democrat... "Why do you need all of those GUNS?"....Now she has her own .45...."When are we going to the range again?"...

She carries a canister of OC/CS spray at work, because she works on a University of Colorado campus, but her .45 is always with her elsewhere....and lately she sounds a lot more libertarian than Democrap or Republican't....

glad you brought her to enlightenment. poor demotards living in their sheltered lives are just waiting to be plucked. some of them can be saved!

I sound like a preacher