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I've seen a lot of SHTF scenerio's. ALL are suggested by individuals or at best couples. Anyone come up with a "Family" disaster plan?
I've always leaned toward a survivalist nature. as much as a family person could in the suburbs. Water, First Aid, MRE's. Firearms and ammo. Family instruction. But in reality, "Bugging Out" to the wild blue younder seems impossible, or at least prohibitively difficult.
Any ideas?
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34853
I'd say the majority of replies there come from folks with kids.
Thanks, i thought there was a thread but couldnt find it!
Unless there is a specific threat which is forcing me out, I'm bugging in with the wife and kids. Bugging out is something that should not be considered lightly, with or without family.
I think bugging out "to the wild blue yonder" is an absolute last ditch option (but one that should be considered and planned for).
And I would say you are correct. I spent a few years preparing for staying at home. It was only after I was at a point that I could stay here that I ever thought about leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by baglock1
I am at the point that I could but if you look through the posts you will find that I am also at a stage that leaving would be for what? I am 53 and have lived a full life. The leaving part becomes less attractive as the years go by.
all the kids are grown and only a couple have any interest in being prepared. If you are 39 or under and have kids then you need to plan. You and your children would be the future.
There have been generations before us and there will be generations after. In all honesty the last big scare was in 61. We are marching to a different kind of threat these days.
Just some thoughts. [Coffee]
we have primary (house), secondary (office), and 3 other meet up locations in case things go down when we arent together.
we also have specific markings for each member and markers in each BOB ( 1 in each car, 1 in office, 2 in house)
if we get to meetup and see the mark, we all know who's already been there and to which location they are heading.
if I get to location A and see no marks, I stay put until everyone gets there, etc..
Too bad there arent prepper "Gated Communities" LOL
I have 4 kids (2-8YO, 1-11YO, and 1-12YO) youngest girl and other 3 are boys. I will only bug out if it is absolutely neccesary. Hoever the kid's kits are more geared towards an emergency at home (fire... etc) So I don't have to carry a change of clothes for them in my own kit.
I've setup meet locations with friends progressively further out from the city. Stashed needed supplies with each. If movement is required at least my posse will be stronger at each stage.
We're planning on bugging in with bugging out an option if the situation dictates it but it's definitely not the preferred option.
Our plan is to turn our home into a fortress. We have a large supply of food and other supplies to stay in our home if it is possible. We also have the firepower to deter anyone that would like to attempt entrance into our property. If staying in our home is not an option than we have plans for that as well.
and if they light it on fire from the outside?Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorsNative
to me bugging out is almost always the best option, unless you live in the middle of nowhere or at the very least outside of town. if you live in a populated area its a huge risk staying, and if you decide to stay you are likely stuck there after the first few days to a week. i get the draw to stay. it seems like a great storage place, easily fortifiable, etc. but i think if you sit and think about all the things potential perps could do to your house from the outside that you would have no control over and in the end basically be stuck, bugging out seems safer. my plan would be to get out of town and into the mountains via back roads. you wouldn't even have to go that far in to be much, much safer. itll be the last place people will search for goods and the like. would probably be months upon months before anyone would think about coming out that way, not until all of the supplies in town are dried up.
also, once stationed outside of town, it would be easy to run recon and make sure people aren't moving into your area. if you have a plan as to what to pack in your car and how to do it, you could bug out within 30 minutes and have a very nice stock of food, at least a few months worth, water, shelter, weapons, etc. i get why people stock up on 2-3 years worth of food, but frankly i don't think its likely youd need more than 6 months. if you don't have a significant plan for food after even just one month, you are an idiot anyways and won't make it. the extra food would make things easier and less stressful, but also makes you less mobile. just my opinion of course.
all of this being said, i have seriously considered custom building my house (when i buy one in the next 5-10 years) with concrete frame, bulletproof doors and windowns, a bunker in the basement with escape hatch, the whole works. if you buy a smaller sized place its not as expensive as youd assume. also, i would build it somewhere in the foothills in case escape is absolutely necessary.
anyone ever consider armored vehicles? ive tossed it around a bit in my mind. some humvee's are street legal and armored, you just have to look hard. v100 commandos are street legal in most cases although those are much more expensive, more in the 80k range. even a ferret might be useful.
I'm outa here... The front range would become chaos followed by famine and then disease. King Soopers and Wally world will turn into shooting galleries and gas stations will become fight clubs till all the stuff is gone.
I've been doing a lot of prepping lately. If I can't drive there I'll walk there, but I have a location that's sustainable and stocked. The move would be with my family, and the preparations for a walk with them have started.
The biggest thing I can think of is prestaging your stuff where you are going if you leave. The more you have to carry, the crappier it will be.
Why do you think that your bug out tent/cabin/etc would be any more defensible, or fireproof, than your home? What will you do when they set it on fire from the outside?Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
Why do you think that people won't be going to the mountains? EVERYONE with a 4 wheel drive will be heading toward the mountains.
Why do you think that the people already occupying the foothills are just going to let you into their area? I've got a cabin on the other side of the divide, but I'm hardly there, and the locals sure as hell wouldn't let me get there.
I wasn't trying to say I would stay in my home no matter what. Whatever situation you are dealing with will decide what you do. I will say I wouldn't be bugging out without giving it some thought. I treat my home like a base. I am well prepared to deter any threats and if the situation called for it I am prepared to not allow anyone to get close to it.
I never said a tent was more fireproof. The idea is to get away from people so it doran have to be. I'm not going to pitch it in someones front yard in the foothills where do you get this stuff? I'm just saying you don't need to drive 5 hours in to the mountains. Two hours in would be plenty to find a desolate place. And FYI the others going there in the four wheel drive vehicles are likely semi preppers themselves. Libtards will stay in town and wait for daddy government to come back. Those are the ones you have to worry about. Those are the first to get violent when all the sudden they have to be self reliant. Those are the people you avoid. Also there is plenty of real estate in he mountains to hide you just have to look into it
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Originally Posted by Irving
We would stay put as long as possible. If that wouldnt work we head toward plan B which is stocked almost as well as home. If that didnt work we go mobile. I think a lot of the general public (unprepared) will bug out to family, friends, or other locations first. so staying put would be a better first choice for us. Just arm the wife,the kids,give them radios,and rely on the plan to keep us safe.
I think there are many scenarios that I would stay put, and a few that I actually would break for the hills. I have 3 boys (10, 3 and 1.5). The eldest could hang pretty well in a survival situation, but the others are too young to haul out of the house for any but the direst of situations.
The current plan is to find 100 acres to split with a good local friend. I would stock that location and feel comfortable taking the boys there. but until that time, I think we are most apt to hold up at home.
i think most unprepared people would sit still thinking it will all blow over. most think this is america and it can never happen, so if it did, at first theyd assume it will blow over. the trick with these scenarios is you have to get out at the right time or you won't be able to get out (though being in loveland is a hell of a lot safer than denver). sitting around for a bit isn't a bad idea, but its a bit dangerous, you gotta make sure you don't wait too long. id try to get out asap and check back periodically to see if it blew over. living in denver id be too afraid id get stuck here and be screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008f450
It all depends on the situation, if the government is the attacker you cant hide in the cities. But like an EMP and its better to stay at home as long as possible, when out of supplies head to more firtile ground. Natural disaster stay at home also, you just have to plan at least 3 different options and pick the best one. Sometimes north or east would be better options.
I guess I was assuming a governmental and economic collapse. Others probably were thinking diff scenarios
I just have a vague plan, and then react as needed as the situation changes.
I have a 5 year old daughter, so that limits my options a bit. My Plan A is to hunker down and stay put. However, I never want to be in a situation where I am on my roof/looking out my windows defending the house, as then I am pretty much screwed. My hope is that my neighbors will work together to keep some kind of order, if not I move to plan B and GTFO of town. If I cannot bug out using my car, I have a bike with a chariot for my daughter/supplies.
All in all I think it is better to have planned reactions to various situations and adapt as needed. IMO for long term survival, there has to be some kind of rebuilding of society as hiding in the wilderness with just my daughter isn't much of a future.
It's not a simple question... depends on what happens, where you live, and where you are when it goes down. Would be more difficult to stay put if you are in the center of a town that's going down the crapper than if you live in a more rural area.Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC357
It's all about options...
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Originally Posted by 45XD
So true. I constanly wonder/worry about what to do to meet up with my family if SHTF happens.
Wife and I are across town from eachother. How do I get to her? Do I drive? You all know that the highways will be a cluster and a killing zone. I have even entertained the oprion of getting a foldable mountain bike to keep in the SUV should I need to bail on the automobile.
What if our fall back position is compromised? What of they all are compromised?
Head to the hills? Well there will be only. Few major routes to get there. I70 and 285 will be a nightmare unless you get on those roads EARLY.
I know I need to sit down and work out a more comprehensive plan, not tomorrow, but know.
Hope for the best. Plan for the worst.
Sorry this is a crappy post but I am using my droid. Forgot my laptop at the shop. Guess I need to plan better.
The rules we have for my family are pretty simple. We bug-in unless there is a compelling reason to bug-out. We're well situated in a good neighborhood that is fairly well shielded from anything that could happen in downtown Denver. It is a defensible postion well outside a potential blast zone's outer ring.
We do have rules that apply in case we're not at the house. We have designated rally points that are easy to get to and means to communicate if no one is there and what to do next. Short of a complete surprise attack by terrorists, most events are going to be telegraphed by the opposing side. Learning to recognize that is important. When you start seeing the serious warning signs of a possible outbreak of hostile action, you need to hunker down and be ready. As a practical exercise, it is important to practice making your rally points in differing scenarios. Any of you who are ex-military will know the value of training exercises. Practice long enough, often enough, it becomes a habit when you are forced to respond.
Should you have to bug-out, you need to know where you are going to go, how you are going to get there, what you will be taking, and how to be flexible and still make your objective. The real first rule is Murphy's Law, which means you have to be able to adapt and overcome. The best laid plan, no matter how well thought out, how well physically planned can always go FUBAR.
In our house, if we have to bug-out, we will cache a lot of things deemed unnecessary for later recovery, like a squirrel hiding nuts if you will. Basic but-out kits in our home is:
1. Appropriate sized backpack
2. sleeping bag bivvy
3. 10 days LRRP rations
4. 4 liters of water
5. Personal water filtration system
6. MOPP Suit
7. Gas mask w/spare filters
8. Large roll of duct tape
9. Compass
10. Waterproof maps
11. Appropriate clothing
12. 200 rds. 9x19mm
13. 200 rds. 5.56mm
14. 50 rds. 12 ga. 2-3/4" OO Buck
15. 50 rds. 12 ga. 2-3/4" #6 shot
16. 10 Cyalume sticks
17. Mk. 4 signal smoke/flare
18. Flint & Steel
19. wire saw
20. Combat knife
21. Medical Kit
22. Medicine pack (antibiotics, pain, BP, etc. -- talk to your physician)
23. Monocular
24. 50 12" zip ties (these are very very useful)
25. Snare wire
26. Hand-fishing kit
27. Self-inflating sleeping mat
28. Whistle
29. Eating utensils
30. Large steel camping mug
31. Steel dinner plate
32. Cooking pot
33. Chemical/Biological agent detection kit
34. 12 ga. pump shotgun
35. 9x19 mm semiautomatic pistol
36. 5.56 mm semiautomatic rifle
37. cleaning kit & oil
That's pretty comprehensive and maybe a bit on the heavier side of things for some people (a good excuse to start exercising now so you can hump it)
my two cents per usual....
unless you have a concrete house that is reinforced, or a bomb shelter in your basement, id bug out. bugging out is more annoying, no doubt, but you have endless options and can really go somewhere remote where no one in their right mind would come looking to steal things. the problem with any house in any semi metropolitan area is that there will be a lot of looters and it won't be that long til they come for you. even if you have guns to protect yourself, people can just burn down your house. it would be hard to make the decision because i would want to hold out as long as i could, but frankly if you wait too long you may then be stuck.
if you are bugging out though you need specific supplies. i have a large tent that is 12x12x8 and allows a wood stove. my stove is a good quality, air tight one that can heat a 12x12 to a comfortable temp down to -30. it can handle wind and snow. so in theory, as long as i can cut wood down, i can survive the elements. i also have cots, heavy duty fleece lined below 0 degree sleeping bags, coolers, guns, ammo, axes, sharpenders, etc. i also have some long term storage foods. all of this stuff fits in my suv. as long as i can find small game and/or fish and am located in a wooded area (both of which are likely) i should be able to make it indefinitely. its not as comfy as a home no doubt, but its awfully safe.
all that being said, when i build a house i will likely build a bunker in it. they aren't much more expensive, easy to hide, and can be pretty self sufficient if you do it right. in that case i would stay.
During the mass chaos that would ensue during a real SHTF scenario I don't really believe people are going to respect property boundaries or property rights.
I know I won't..
That is why a place the mountains or in the middle of no where would be good. My house is a defensive disaster too many windows even if boarded up and the thin walls. Would be hard for me and the wife to maintain security.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmotao
The one thing I miss about Rural Nebraska, nothing out there of interest to anyone. [Coffee]
true, but there are tons of nuggets out in the mountains that it would be nearly impossible for people to find you. the one thing i need is a great off road vehicle so i can get to really remote places. but even with regular vehicles there are so many places that have absolutely nothing within 30 miles. if some sort of disaster really did happen it would be years before they came out sniffing around that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skully
Depends on what time of the year, middle of the mountain winter some if those really deep remote areas are impassable by auto or even a major offroad jeep. You need a snowmobile or artic cat, but then you not only have to deal with a scenario but the unforgiving old man winter. I guess have multiple possible places depending on what and time of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
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Originally Posted by baglock1
Yup, bug in. No point in leaving only to get bogged down with everyone else who is leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymrc
Imagine what the freeways would be like...total chaos.
you of course don't use the freeways. everyone knows that much. also the number of people leaving early on would be nil. hardly anyone is prepared to survive anywhere else and they would all make the mistake of sticking around too long to try to wait it out, only to realize they now can't leave. if you left fairly early youd have no problem other than being ridiculed as a nut.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
not really. you can walk most of it. all it takes is a pair of snow snoes and a smal sled. sure its a pain in the ass and would take a few days to get EVERYTHING to a site but so what, we are talking end of civilization type disasters here, youve got the time. my tent weighs 70 lbs. but on a sled in the snow, even uphill, its actually not that bad. i wouldn't travel 30 miles with it but ive gone a few miles and its not that bad. i could probably travel 5-7 miles a day with it which is far enough for temporary camp, especially in the winter. you don't have to go to that remote of an area in the winter, its the summer that you would want to get moving to farther out areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skully
Couple adults or older teens if equipped and prepared, but with theme of this thread with family / kids under 10 would make it a risky task. Freezing temps etc I would worry then about dealing with sickness etc. A very hard task, I would rather try for remote rural nothing of interest to anyone else area.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
I definitely would not want to be in this big city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
So where do you live? [Coffee]
Make my way to you, you always need another gun handy right?
It's risky with kids no doubt. But I still believe if a real situation arose its safer than in town. Heck even infections would be a problem in town. My advice to anyone prepping is to prepare for both. The food, weapons and medical supplies would all be the same. If you've got the money I'd get a decent amount of food and antibiotics. Both of those would be hard to come by both in town and out. The freezing temps would scare me that much even with kids. If power is gone, which it would be, it'll be cold in town as well and that will make even more people pillage happy. With a stove ad endless supply of wood I don't see how that could go wrong. My fire starter is also endless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skully
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
That is what I was saying have "Multiple plans", depending on the scenario or situation would warrant which disaster plan you would follow. [Beer]
My wife and I had yet another of those discussions last night. She's all for hunkering down and bugging-in. Which is all good and fine until you get lots of hungry people, injured people, or worse.... bad people (e.g. criminals and/or roving government security contractors i.e. Blackwater type folks with a FEMA mandate) running about.
Getting out of Littleton for us could be a major problem, especially if the roads were choked. I-25, I-70, US-285, etc. would be a nightmare of epic proportions as everyone and their mother will be leaving (most without a clue as to where or why they are going). Which brings into play having the knowledge of every little back road (paved or not) as alternates. Most maps do not have all of those roads listed and the only way to know about them is from topos or direct knowledge of having traveled them. Good routes include knowing every single old mining road/path and passes. Which means having a suitable 4x4 in good working condition with good tires and spares.
A practice I put into play for our vehicles are black-out lenses for all lights, with a manual switch for disabling the indicator lights. Less light means you're less noticed. A good pair of NVGs for night travel with lights out is huge (if you can afford them).
The problems of bugging-in for those of us in urban/suburban environments will depend on the level of disaster and type of disaster. The first 24 hrs is the great wait-and-see game. The second 24 hrs is the I-gotta-get-out-and-see time. People will have access to enough water and food over that 48 hour period. After that, it begins to get sketchy. People will start taking what they think they need. Then many will begin the panic of I got to leave and leave now. That's where the roads bog down even more. Arguments will ensue over gasoline, food, water, slow traffic, and so chaos begins with little order. What LEO and Fire/EMS services remain will be stressed and stretched. Locally and haphazardly implemented martial law will come into play. Turf will begin at some point to become established, neighborhood by neighborhood. Pretty dismal, eh? The truth of it all is that we are pack or herd animals and still have that tribal mentality in our genes. It is a means of survival and entirely instinct based.
Where will our Federal government be? At first, they will be sitting on their fat butts, two thumbs up where the sun does not shine. They will be trying to establish Command and Control Centers, region by region. Figuring out what resources they have to bring to bear and finding out they have a lot less than they thought or budgeted for. Deals will be made and rules of engagement will be set, do not expect the latter to be in the favor of John Q. Public.
Somewhere in a dark room will be some of them deciding who are the trouble-makers. In their infinite wisdom, most of their databases are stored in hardened networks of servers. They know a lot more about us than any of us would like them to know (perhaps not to the level the UK government goes to, but still...get the point?). They will know who the majority of gun-owners are, who the criminals are, and who belongs to a militia or other affiliation they do not like. Under Martial Law, they have the right to suspend the US Constitution, meaning they can come and take (not ask) your firearms. They can take you gasoline, your food, your water, even the clothes or other items without regard to your rights. They have the right to arrest you and hold you, or to even outright execute on the spot for failing to comply.
Bugging-in is nice if you're well protected, careful, and have the means and knowledge to maintain a very low profile. Bugging-out is an eventuality everyone must prepare for.
Exactly. This is why prepping with small kids is a little more difficult for families with small children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skully
My kid is not yet 3 but she has been exposed to camping, etc. because I think that is important. But have you ever heard a toddler have a meltdown in the forest? No? Well, let me tell you, there is no doubt it can be heard for MILES. And with the hardships that come with bugging out and/or living in the woods as some have suggested, you can count on a few meltdowns.
Do you want every bad guy for miles hearing your location?
Having a working vehicle would make bugging out with kids easier. But what if you don't? Your supplies will likely go on your back in your pack. So no room to carry your kid in a kid backpack. So where do your kids go? Think your 2 year old can walk very far in a day? No way, no how. Expect to move VERY slowly. Do you put them in a wagon? A bike trailer? Do you even have a wagon or a bike w/ trailer? And again, can they be quiet if you have to hide to avoid danger as you're moving through town? Something to think about...
Is your kid a picky eater? Well he eat MRE's? Freezed dried lasagna? Better find out now.
Do you have any little toys or games you can pack for them? Moral is a big deal with kids. Perhaps a small little $1 magna doodle is all you need to help keep the kids somewhat happy. Maybe store/pack some little treats as well.
Can you carry clothes for your little one for all seasons? If they are a toddler, do you have anything in the next size up? Kids grow out of their clothes quickly. Shoes?
Above are all things I think about constantly now that I have a toddler. Do I have a solid answer for all of them? Nope. Some I still need to figure out.
We have plans for both bugging out and in. Bugging in is our main strategy. But I do realize that if things get bad quickly or last more than a week or so, we will be moving out. We have solid bug out plans and routes to reach family that is well established in remote areas. However, they are not currently the prepping type. We need to store more supplies at their location but currently we are focusing on building our stores at home. Once that's complete, we'll start on building our remote supplies. Priorities and one thing at a time...but all my plans must consider the toddler's perspective to even have a chance at being viable.
I thought this little story fit in nice here...
My daughter was watching Handy Manny from my DVR this morning before school. Right after the cartoon, another cartoon came on that had a few minutes recorded on my DVR but I forgot the name. Anyway, it had two kids and a Mom. And get this, the Mom was making an emergency kit and letting the kids help. Then...dun, dun, dun...she showed them how to make Go Bags! They even called them "Go Bags". In a cartoon. On Disney. Awesome!
The Mom's go bag had all the stuff we talk about on here (minus the firearms) and the kids got little go bags with coloring books and a few toys.
I also saw a Sesame Street episode a while back that talked about preparedness. Again they actually used that term. Three Little Pigs were used to get the point across. The two little pigs that built out of straw and sticks kept saying, "Nothing bad will happen to US." And the one that built out of bricks said "You can never be too careful!" Well, we all know how that ended...
Kinda cool to see this type of thing in kids shows.