American Muscle Forever!
Import suck.
I was sick last week and couldn't engage the Domestic vs Import debate but I'm ready now.. Bring it!
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American Muscle Forever!
Import suck.
I was sick last week and couldn't engage the Domestic vs Import debate but I'm ready now.. Bring it!
Without question, the only muscle is American muscle every thing else is just freaking rice. [poke]
I don't think there was any debate over USA muscle it was rather daily drivers the car to get you to and from work. In a daily driver Asian cars win hands down.
Now if you’re talking horse power obviously nothing can touch American muscle. My 73 firebird with a 454 BB chevy full interior and glass 3800 lbs. runs high 11's in the quarter at bandi. Its street legal I use to run tower road, monaco, in longmont ran woodland and the dog pound had a great time.
I am getting to be an old bastage and would not ever think of street racing again plus it is different now. Back in the day I lived to street race but we were smart about it and people had some serious hardware. Now it's just jackass kids with slow cars killing people. Hell tower road the cops would come and watch it was a great time.
I can assure you I am not knocking American Muscle but when it comes to a daily driver no American car can ever compete.
Ok, let's talk daily drivers. (cause I'll take my 68 Cam over any civic)
True the US big three stepped on their own stick. Quality dropped and prices when up. Started in the 70s. But, all three have greatly improved on quality and can compete with the foreign manufactures today.
I say support our US companies to help them become stronger. They won’t make the same mistakes as in the past.
Argument: But my Toyota was made in Fremont CA. So what? 64% of all foreign cars sold in the US were assembled in the US. Nice, thank you foreign regimes. But, all the parts were manufactured abroad. Plus the profits from cars sold benefit foreign interest.
Argument: My Focus was assembled in Mexico. This is the exception, not the rule. Vettes are still manufactured in Bowling Green, KY and F150 are still made in Detroit. Your US dollar is not staying in Mexico, if it were, we wouldn’t be having an immigration problem.
Argument: But the US parts are manufactured abroad. Not all. And the major portion of the dollar you spend STAYS in the US, compared to an import.
Yes the lines are blurry. Yes, imports have their advantages. But, so do US made vehicles. For example, parts aren’t as expensive.
The number one thing that bugs me about the big three is; they have a large stake in the oil industry. This is a conflict of interest. Why does my 02 F150 get the same gas mileage as an 86 F150? No incentive to improve. The foreign competition will change this too. Even the JAMA (Japan Auto Manufacturing Assoc) companies could be doing better here. Take a look at their Hybrids. 40mpg? That’s it? Look at the Hybrid clubs and their successful modifications to increase fuel efficiencies to 60+. Don’t tell me that these large corporations don’t have these technologies.
Not to start a flame war here, but the comments above are just silly.
American muscle has it's place, but there is also a place for 700 horsepower 4 bangers too.
http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/showthre...1&page=2&pp=10
That's my brother. It's a 1990 Eagle Talon. It's a 2.3 liter with a big turbo on it. He uses E85 too. Full interior, 3300 lbs. All wheel drive.
Myself? I'd LOVE to have an old Camaro, but I've done the Import thing too. I own a '99 Corvette now. They're all cool in their own way. Fast is fast.
All I can say for daily drivers... Buy what makes you happy. If it's a VW Jetta, so be it. Every car has it's drawbacks, and faults. I currently drive a '98 Volvo V70XC. You want to talk about a car that will nickel and dime you to death! That's my business, I repair Volvos. When someone wants reliability, I recommend Honda, not Volvo. Cars are so Global now, most companies are so Multi-National, it's difficult to dicern where their interests lie. Volvos have a TON of Japanese parts now, as well as a transmission designed by GM. Volvo's P2 chassis is shared by Mazda, Ford, Land Rover. How's that for confusing?
Yep, you can get 700hp from a 4banner. At 4 or 5 times the cost as a small block V8 and that will only go down the track 4 - 5 times before you need to rebuild. I can do the same thing with a Cavalier or Focus. But com-on, really, you would take a 700hp Talon over a 67 Stingray, 65 Goat, 68 Roadrunner, 67 GT Mustang? Really? (youth today :roll: )
Daily drivers, yep the crossbreeding has made the lines blurry, and each has their pros & cons. My point is to support the US Auto Industry. Hey, I'm opened minded.. Convince me to buy an import. (my wife did it. she bought a Kia)
Oh, one more thing, it was interesting that your example was a Talon. An American car company designed and built by a Japanese company.
Yeah. Well. My 2004 Bug gets almost 50 MPG and you would never expect it to be full of guns. Pot or coke maybe, but not guns.
And the heated seats are nice...
So there.
I have the best of both worlds. Mazda B3000. Foreign Company uses Ford Parts and assembles in the US. V6 motor with 20+ if I am careful with the throttle.
uuummm got me, I just don't were to start on what's wrong with that theoryQuote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman
I see where you're going with this. Apples and oranges. You're talking about two distinctly different types of cars. Are the classic cars you mentioned cooler? Well, maybe to some. Would my brother trade that Talon for a '67 Stingray? Well of course he would.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
I think you need to give credit where credit is due. Today's youth didn't grow up with Roadrunners, Chevelles, and the like. You did. Why disrespect others for what they like? By the way, the only reason my brother's car gets taken apart is because he can't find drivetrain parts to support the engine. It's still a fairly new niche, and you can't just bolt a powerglide onto a transverse mounted engine with all wheel drive.
Cost isn't a compairison point either. My brother has less than 15k into his car. When's the last time you saw any of those vehicles you mentioned built, and fast (10 second timeslips) for less than 15k? I'd gather never. But! My brother's car is old, paint coming off, interior plastic disintegrating... So there you go. It's not much to look at, but it's fast as snot.
So what you ask? Exactly. So what. Fast is fast. A classic car is just that. Classic. They each have their own followings, and to argue better or worse is a waste of time. Did I mention my brother and I grew up around Corvettes and Ford Model A's? We know what beautiful classic cars are. Most "kids" do too.
Diamond Star Motors was a joint venture between Chrysler Corp, and Mitsubishi. The assembly plant was in Normal, Illinois. The Eclipse/Talon platform was designed specifically for the American market. Sometime in the late 90's Chrysler sold the plant back to Mitsubishi.
You know what does drive me crazy?
Many of my Volvo customers are trading in their cars for Prius Hybrids. I must work in the most Liberal area of Denver.
You should see the sneers I get when they pull up in their new Hybrids and my F350 is outside.
When they hear it's a diesel they say "oh, well that's okay then!" [postal]
Way back in the 70's a co-worker gave us a ride in his bel-air.
He had some kind of built engine/race engine - I don't know what.
But when he punched it & went through the first three gears I was blown away!
Almost pinned me to the passenger seat.
That thing had more poop than most fast motorcycles of the day.
Hey, I’m a equal opportunity hot rodder.. Wanna compare apples to apples. Fine, but my point is, and always will be DO NOT BUY FORGEIGN CARS.
Apples to apple, you pick the foreign car and I will pick an equal domestic counter. For example you say '06 Camry; I say the Pontiac G6. I'll take the G6 for comfort, cost, reliable and performance. That’s right, RELIABLE is in there. The Big Three have changed their focus to quality.
96’ 700hp Talon – I’ll take the ’96 700hp Camaro
I'm gonna get killed for that last post...
Quality from the Big 3? [roll] Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of American cars, but they have a looooooong way to go to get to the level of the Japanese. The Germans aren't that great either. You couldn't get me into anything GM has made in the last 20 years short of a C6 Z06, and that's coming from a Fox Mustang guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
My '86 Toyota 4Runner has 247K miles on it and the build quality is still better than most five-year-old domestic trucks. I used to be a lot tech at a dealership, so I drove a LOT of different vehicles, and for the most part the Jap cars were noticeably higher quality. I still hate Hondas, just as personal preference, but I think Toyota has just about the top-quality product on the market right now. If the Big 3 want to stay in business, they need to drop the UAW and bring up the quality BIG time.
Back on the topic of domestic muscle, here's my '86 Mustang SVO Comp Prep (option delete). One of 83 ever made.
http://i17.tinypic.com/2rhmce0.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/3yg8vb5.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/2s1npd1.jpg
Just a four cylinder. :mrgreen:
Considering I am a tech with 20 years experience and work on automobiles for a living you’re dead wrong about reliability. No American car can compare to how reliable Toyota and Honda is. Look in the consumer guide if you want more proof.
Lets see this week 90% of the cars I worked on were all American cars. The difference is simple my last truck a Chevy S10 had 177K on it when I traded it in. It was starting to smoke and the rod bearings were shot it sounded like a diesel when I would first start it until it got oil pressure. I now have a Toyota Tacoma that at 177K will just barley even be broke in and will probably go over 300K before it needs any major engine work.
You also don't seem to get it that your so called American cars are not made in the US. They are assembled here just like the foreign cars and half of US cars are not even US cars they are imports. Ford probes are made by Mazda, Mercury Villager is made 100% by Nissan it is a Nissan Qwest, All GEO's depending on model are either a Toyota or Isuzu, Chevy nova is a Toyota, Dodge Viper is a Mitsubishi GT3000 I could go on all day. The ones that are actual US cars don't even come close to the reliability of some of the imports mainly Toyota and Honda.
To each their own but I will take my Toyota over any US compact truck hands down. The only time I will ever by another US vehicle is if I want a full size truck.
Maybe I won't mention the Recall notice I got on My truck, Less than a year after I got it. :roll:
Nothing big, just the tailgate seemed to fall off if You drove with it down.
DROP THE UAW!!! Amen,brother. They're killing Detroit. $35 hour to tighten lug nuts. Good work if you can find it.
OK, COHunter, I have a bit of respect for you since you actual own a repair shop but your logic is flawed. Let me prove it to you. Your first argument you state,
Then you state,Quote:
“Considering I am a tech with 20 years experience and work on automobiles for a living you’re dead wrong about reliability. No American car can compare to how reliable Toyota and Honda is.”
Recap, American badge vehicles made by foreign companies are not as reliable as the same cars with a Toyota emblem. So, Toyota, in Fremont are making their badge cars reliable but GEOs made by Toyota are not. I think we have stumbled on a conspiracy!Quote:
“Ford probes are made by Mazda, Mercury Villager is made 100% by Nissan it is a Nissan Quest, All GEO's depending on model are either a Toyota or Isuzu, Chevy nova is, blah, blah blah.”
Foreign companies are sabotaging American brand cars. Another reason to avoid imports.
Your catching on the only so called US cars that actually have any reliability are the ones we don't even make rather ironic is it not. They are not American cars they are imports with an American emblem that is one of my points. If you look at the consumer guide every single American car with a high rating is not really an American car it's an import in disguise.
True American cars are not reliable and need ten times more repairs than imports. Why do you think the American companies are selling more and more imports in disguise?
GM has already contracted out their Hybrid to Toyota. GM also has most of the power train components for every vehicle they actually make made in Mexico. So much for buying a Chevy and it's made in America.
All I am saying is that your delusional view that because you bought a US made car employed more people here vs. my Toyota is a fantasy. My Toyota employed just as many US workers as your Ford and it's ten times more reliable.
Like I said to each their own if you like US made cars nothing wrong with that. I am just stating from a professional view why I drive a Tacoma and not an S10 anymore.
If GM decides to contract out their compact trucks to Toyota then I will have to take back my statement of I will never by an American made car again. [wink]
I have a Jeep that was probably made in Mexico and I do not think I will be buying another "American" car. I think it is funny that they best cars come from the two nations we beat and reindustrialized after WWII.
As for muscle I am not a fan of rice but I do have a love for kraut. :cool:
All that power does you little good if you can’t turn a corner while using it. For me a RUF Porsche is where it is at.
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/
http://porsche.carclub.ru/img/models/32.jpg
YES!!!! i'll take two!
daddy like :mrgreen:
http://www.hobbyshop.ch/images/FG/BM...TR%20gross.jpg
Not a streetable car but damn! I just can't get these out of my head.
Way more than I could probably handle @ $80k.
http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/side/side.jpg
I know a guy in the Springs who has an Atom on order right now.
For those that haven't seen it, here's what Jeremy Clarkson thinks of the Atom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k20jZVM1HzU
Ok, can we agree that Imports employee as many US workers as domestic auto companies? (almost) If so, can we also agree that sales of imports benefit foreign companies? I don't think that we will agree on the reliable issue, yet.. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by HunterCO
I didn't agree with my import-loving dad until I owned one.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
[theking]Quote:
Originally Posted by dorifto_poca
mmm. Porsche.... pure sex.
I was a huge import guy. I've owned: eight Volvos, an Eagle Talon, an Eclipse. Then I bought a Ford truck. That was good, so we bought a Lincoln SUV, then I bought a Corvette. I swore I would never own a domestic car or truck. Somewhere along the way I became a huge V-8 fan.
Our three domestic cars are the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. I haven't had a big repair (other than maintainence) in over three years.
I still drive an older Volvo ('98) as my daily/beater. It has 208k and a few issues!
Our next vehicle will be German. The Wife's wanted a BMW 5 series for some time now.
As long as We're dreaming, Let Me hop in the old time machine and get one of these fresh of the showroom floor.
http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/GM/70BuickGSX/
A friend of mine is in the Colorado GS club, I went to their show this past summer. One of the members had one of these, and it was appraised at $40,000.
A TRUE BELIEVER! Thanks for the comments, I needed a allied. My '02 F150 is still going strong w/80k and NO major work..(the sunroof motor fried) I expect 80K more before I upgrade to a new truck. The Big 3 have made huge changes to improve quality. But they started late.Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonFRC
Oh, since were dreaming now.
Steve Saleen's S7
100% American Made
God's choice of cars, (don't believe me, Watch "Bruce O Mighty". God selects an American Muscle Car over an import!) :twisted:
http://home.comcast.net/~antpress/saleen-s7-01.jpg
Get in a wreck in that Navigator and the frame is toast if anything other than a VW bug going 5mph hits it you will need a frame. I have done several already. No repairs in 3 years? Why don't you tell everyone how many miles are on these vehicles? [wink]Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonFRC
Before I forget be sure to list all the repairs so we can each judge for our selves what is major or not major. [wink]
Last but no least what vehicles did you own before your domestics?
I guess that is the difference you wish for 160K my Toyota will just be broke in. I will need to look for a new truck when it hits 300K. Your F150 is lucky if it makes it 15K on a set of brakes my Tacoma has 51K still factory brakes and last oil change they still had 40% left. I have never touched that truck other than fluid and filter changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
My mothers Camry same thing over 100K and I have never had to put a wrench to it other than fluid and filter changes and brakes. Now my father, brother and sister christ one of them is in my shop every other day for something. Thank god at least my mother listened to me.
I guess we each have our own definition of reliability. [wink] :P
My dream car. Check the latest version out, the S7 TT Competition. 1000hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHead
http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-con...leens7comp.jpg
Key here, though, is that this is a multi-hundred-thousand dollar handmade supercar. You cannot be serious if you're comparing build quality on this rolling wet dream to your average UAW-built Big 3 product.
i have a 1961 VW Buggy and i'm willing to throw down at the track against a little american muscle. it's street legal. i'm not sure if this is still an "impot" or not to you guys as it was mostly made and or modded in the US.
http://www.ppvwc.net/coppermine/albu...mal_shrap1.jpg
http://www.ppvwc.net/coppermine/albu...mal_shrap2.jpg
http://www.ppvwc.net/coppermine/albu...mal_shrap3.jpg
http://www.ppvwc.net/coppermine/albu...28Large%29.jpg
That is fuckin SWEET! What's it run?
i have run 13.0 at 12psi on 91octane. this year i plan on slowly turning up the boost to about 18psi on 104octane and leaving the line at 5000rpm instead of 3000rpm.
i can't wait to see the numbers it can turn. i'm shooting for low 12s to high 11s. it gets a little squirly with the short wheel base so i'm takeing it real slow. a friend of mine put his VW in the wall at 110mph and im not looking to follow in his foot steps.
i also dynoed it at 152hp and 155lbs of tourque uncorrected. the numbers are not high compared to american standards but at 1450lbs wet i'll take it.
Very sweet. It's all about power to weight, and it appears that you've got that in spades.Quote:
Originally Posted by shrapmetal
Thats the problem with short wheel based cars they get really out of control at high speeds. I always gave Lee $hit at On Track for that death wish he races. He always makes it and it makes me laugh cause if anybody else on earth got in that car it would end up in the wall. :mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by shrapmetal