458 SOCOM AR-15

(MODS: PLEASE EDIT at will!)

458S is also a "growth" round!

Way smaller group than 6.8/6.5/.300 lovers, but I know there are a few .458S owners, along w/ .450 and other "big-bore" AR owners/lovers out there.

I think it would be good to "contain" 458S discussions to here until site is recovered/enough interest generated. Seems I recall at least three 458S threads pre-2012?

B2


FWIW, I know the original 458S Forum got hacked/spammed/denial of service and is slowly recovering: http://458socomforums.com/index.php

It sucked and lost tons of info, same happened to the original 6.8 Forum, and "WE" are nearly the same situation here on CO AR-15... The "good" will persevere and float to the top!

Anyhow, for anybody frustrated getting approved on the current 458S Forum, my understanding is Marty is doing it from overseas/one-by-one/as available.

Hmm, Wilson Combat also just announced a deal w/ Marty and they're now producing a 458S rifle and stand behind it... Look for growth after the Red Jacket idjits on TV talked about the 458S. Regardless, seems it's taken on a life of it's own.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...izeMatters.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...cartrdiges.jpg

Have you checked out : Beyond556.com ?
Lots of 458 SOCOM discussion in the Big Bore subsection....
I need to take mine out shooting to re-sight it in. I did a site set change.
And I want to see how the 325 gr. FTX and 350 FMJ FN rounds shoot. I have been shooting 300 gr. SNHP and they seemed to group good until my front site came loose, forgot to lock tite it.

Does 45-70 count?

Only if it is an AR chambered in 45-70.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

Have you checked out : Beyond556.com ?
Lots of 458 SOCOM discussion in the Big Bore subsection....
I need to take mine out shooting to re-sight it in. I did a site set change.
And I want to see how the 325 gr. FTX and 350 FMJ FN rounds shoot. I have been shooting 300 gr. SNHP and they seemed to group good until my front site came loose, forgot to lock tite it.

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Thanks and will do.

(For our real .45-70 brother, the cool thing about a 458S is it's nearly equivalent out of a AR carbine, even a SBR-version if I was so fortunate to own one...)

I haven't shot mine near enough either, but what a freakin' cool option in an AR platform! :) I'd expect the .450 guys smile just as big, but my heart went 458S just because of the projectile options and especially how/why it was created!

B2

FWIW, I'm "in" @ the new 458S Forum probably because I was on the deceased forum. Anyhow, think we have a few other 458 platforms in the state/area now and would like to help if I can.

Must be getting old and wimpy.

Working up H110 reloads today and 50+ rounds... Seems I have a bit of a tingly shoulder tonight. :) On the other hand, it was a bit breezy but nearly a perfect day w/ my son.

On a serious note, for ANYBODY reloading for the 458S: ANY Pressure Signs means your in dangerous territory and back off!

It's super easy to cross that boundary, most especially w/ the Barnes TTSX due to it's length making it a different animal. I definitely saw swipes @ 31.0 GR/MAX load... Certainly no need to ever push that projectile that hard.

Definitely a very cool option out of an AR platform and big holes leak more!

More big bore propaganda... They ain't "cheap" but sure are fun:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...tcherproof.jpg

ETA: Dupe pic removed


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...urearewide.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babirl

More big bore propaganda... They ain't "cheap" but sure are fun:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...tcherproof.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...izeMatters.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...urearewide.jpg

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Seems like fun doesn't come cheap either way, so you might as well get a beast [Beer]

Wish I can graduate to the big boy club but funds are lacking

this will be my next upper i build would love to do a complete gun but prolly just do an upper eto switch out with my .223.

RJ

Upper is a perfectly fine option and works well.

WARNING: It will build itself into a lower and accessorized! (It's that EBR thing... This "big bore" AR thing is addictive.)

I have some "special mags" I Dremel'ed half-moons into but not required for most loads. Soon to test are the "Lancer" mags.


B2

FWIW, Wilson Combat is now fully in the 458S game:

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/458-SOCOM/products/438/

(He fell in love w/ the 6.8 and now the 458S for hogs and general hunting purposes...)

Overall, I understand there is a barrel and muzzle device shortage industry-wide... Also, seems to be a shortage of the "generic" .458 300 GR projectiles.

The Barnes 458S-specific is perfect/not-cheap... Lot's of folks helped make it reality.

Newbie here. I'm thinking about purchasing a .458 SOCOM upper to mount on my Colt M4 lower. I've seen uppers from Wilson Combat and Rock River Arms. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Wilson product (~$1,200) is better and/or worth the expense of the RRA upper (~$800)?

Any guidance would be appreciated!

Get the RRA, use the cash that you save to get ammunition.
If you make it out to this:
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/72745-RA...!-December-9th!!!

Find me, I might let you shoot a round or two out my RRA ( and only charge you $5, [LOL] ) after I get it sighted in again.

As mentioned before - I been having a devil of a time finding suitable 458 slugs for reloading. - It may get so bad that I'll have to buy the BT-Sniper die set to swage 300gr JSP slugs from 40 S&W brass. Cause really - what else you going to do with 40 S&W brass, its too short to use in a real 10mm.

ETA: Slugs = Brass? If so, IM/e-mail me and I might be able to loan/trade/pay forward a few cases...


Hopefully the 45-70 Rem bulk bullets will return someday.

Not the cheapest, but specifically designed for the 458S and pure awesome: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544...free-box-of-50



A bit cheaper:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/138...nose-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...vc=subv1138115

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4B0&src=mbProd


No clue about these folks but the 300GR Rem bulk projectile was kind of the standard/generic starting point: http://www.huntingtons.com/store/pro...roductid=20128

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babirl

ETA: Slugs = Brass? If so, IM/e-mail me and I might be able to loan/trade/pay forward a few cases...


Hopefully the 45-70 Rem bulk bullets will return someday.

Not the cheapest, but specifically designed for the 458S and pure awesome: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544...free-box-of-50



A bit cheaper:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/138...nose-box-of-50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...vc=subv1138115

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4B0&src=mbProd


No clue about these folks but the 300GR Rem bulk projectile was kind of the standard/generic starting point: http://www.huntingtons.com/store/pro...roductid=20128

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Sounds like he is talking bullets, though he refers to them as slugs.... And making .458 bullets out of .40 S&W brass ? I would think is a bit strange.

Edit: Actually found an article on this, they are using ,45 ACP cases to make .458 SOCOM bullets..... Whodathunk....

Author Topic: Making .458 bullets out of .45 ACP cases - 458 SOCOM ...


458socomforums.com › Reloading › Bullets

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

Sounds like he is talking bullets, though he refers to them as slugs.... And making .458 bullets out of .40 S&W brass ? I would think is a bit strange.

Edit: Actually found an article on this, they are using ,45 ACP cases to make .458 SOCOM bullets..... Whodathunk....

Author Topic: Making .458 bullets out of .45 ACP cases - 458 SOCOM ...




458socomforums.com › Reloading › Bullets

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Hmm, I missed that one... Interesting and good to know but thankfully I'm set for a bit.

Also forgot to look for the Hornady 300GR bulk bullets but they're out there too. OP, I think there are some components for sale over on the 458S Forum.

So does the .458 use the same mags as 5.56? I'm guessing they just go in single stack instead of double if they do?

RRA says they have them in stock, and I have been wanting to get a hunting caliber upper for hogs. Just not wanting one that will blow a hole out the other side. But, a big bore is interesting for me in other uses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave

So does the .458 use the same mags as 5.56? I'm guessing they just go in single stack instead of double if they do?

RRA says they have them in stock, and I have been wanting to get a hunting caliber upper for hogs. Just not wanting one that will blow a hole out the other side. But, a big bore is interesting for me in other uses.

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No, they are not the same magazines, [Wink], there is a group of us wantiing MagPul to start making the special 10 round .458 SOCOM magazines so that after the mag limit goes into effect, we will still be able to buy them........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

No, they are not the same magazines, [Wink], there is a group of us wantiing MagPul to start making the special 10 round .458 SOCOM magazines so that after the mag limit goes into effect, we will still be able to buy them........

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So I actually just ordered 15 ten round .458 SOCOM pmags before I even knew I wanted an upper in that chambering? Damn, I'm good. [Coffee] So wants to help me convince my wife I need an upper for this?

Try stopping at King Soopers on your way home and pick her up a cheap bouquet of flowers about once a week or so for a couple of months, with a night or two out for dinner & a movie. Then, when your upper ships, send her to an afternoon session of pampering at one of those spa / massage places.

Actually I'm putting my order in today. :D Going to see if I can use the birthday defense. Plus, my grandmother is either going senile or thinks she is going to die soon. My usual birthday present of a $50 gift card for amazon or ebay turned into a $500 check. She is 94, but when I saw her last month she was still in great health.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave

Actually I'm putting my order in today. :D Going to see if I can use the birthday defense. Plus, my grandmother is either going senile or thinks she is going to die soon. My usual birthday present of a $50 gift card for amazon or ebay turned into a $500 check. She is 94, but when I saw her last month she was still in great health.

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You know updates are expected... Not on the wife, she'll get over it (err, MAYBE), still hope and pray grandma is OK, but what's up w/ your 458S order?



Could be months from what I'm hearing even pre-panic/popularization, As I recall, I waited nearly 4-months for a basic RRA; on the other hand, can't remember if I bought in another panic period? [panic]


No matter, you'll love 458S and your "custom" 7-round/10-round mags will be just fine... They'll likely need some trimming/Dremel love if they're PMAGs.

B2

I'm thinking about adding a custom 1895 Marlin Guide Gun 45/70, .45-70 just because I can share projectiles and always wanted one... SShhh. DON'T tell CINCWIFE!

I've called RRA three times and each time I get told it's been bumped another 2 months. Biggest problem is BCG's, since they are waiting on a supplier for those they are making uppers and barrels for other calibers until they have a confirmation. One did mention that the uppers are being made and the barrel stock is on hand, but no set date on bolts. I'm getting a lower and another .458 upper from 10mm Man's Double D Armory in the industry partner section here.

Wife is over it, I took a temp job with a friend of hers that helped pay it off. Grandma is ok, but since she had to leave her house to move into a retirement community she's been down a bit, but getting better since she adjusted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave

....

Wife is over it, I took a temp job with a friend of hers that helped pay it off. Grandma is ok, but since she had to leave her house to move into a retirement community she's been down a bit, but getting better since she adjusted.

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Glad to hear and I believe my oldest living/now buried predecessor was 98... Wow, not sure I'll make 70, err even 60 at this rate...

As you well know, the whole industry is insane much less w/ these variants... [Rant1]

In the meantime, please ensure you get approved @ 458 Forums during your wait: http://458socomforums.com (Marty 'designer' has been hit/miss but that's the no-bull best place to get real answers/no trolls for 458S... Worth the wait.)

Only other thing I know is keep checking w/ http://www.sbrammunition.com/ (Marty approved) and Wilson Combat.

I've been trolling the 458 forums, getting some info and seeing where if at all ammo is. I'm on backorder at Wilson for some 300gr rounds. I did pick up some projectiles from MidwayUSA, 300gr lead free for the socom and some 45-70 350gr. Haven't found any brass though. I still need a press of my own as I have to go to a coworker of my wife's house to reload. So far it's a good trade, homebrews for reloading lessons. All I have to provide is dies and shell holders if he doesn't have them, and materials since so far he only reloads pistol rounds. But he just got a DPMS AR-15, so now he's going to want to do .223. I'll get him into upper swapping soon.

Huh... Well, I stepped in here a little too late... I just got done building a buddy a 458 upper. You can also use standard 30 round mags from your AR, you may have to modify them, but you can. In my endeavors, if you shoot the pointy bullets (<I'm so articulate), then most AR mags will work. I know that Pmags, and standard GI mags will with them anyway. If you use the flat nose shorty's, you want to put a slight rounded bevel in on the front of the mag. It is also nice to have the correct followers installed, although normal AR followers also work without a problem. Just my $.02. P.S. I have a nice new reamer, and gauges to build more........ he..... hehe.. heheheheheheheheh.....................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyder

Huh... Well, I stepped in here a little too late... I just got done building a buddy a 458 upper. You can also use standard 30 round mags from your AR, you may have to modify them, but you can. In my endeavors, if you shoot the pointy bullets (<I'm so articulate), then most AR mags will work. I know that Pmags, and standard GI mags will with them anyway. If you use the flat nose shorty's, you want to put a slight rounded bevel in on the front of the mag. It is also nice to have the correct followers installed, although normal AR followers also work without a problem. Just my $.02. P.S. I have a nice new reamer, and gauges to build more........ he..... hehe.. heheheheheheheheh.....................

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WTF and yeah?

I'd say your credentials are somewhat important after the "Red Jacket" 458S clown show... Trolling or are you Marty/Teppo approved much less even interested in the 458S/big bore ARs? Heck, even Rumore could vouch for you...

B2

Yeah, "we" have the mag thing figured out... [ROFL2]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babirl

WTF and yeah?

I'd say your credentials are somewhat important after the "Red Jacket" 458S clown show... Trolling or are you Marty/Teppo approved much less even interested in the 458S/big bore ARs? Heck, even Rumore could vouch for you...

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Huh? I've built three... and by built I mean profiled, chambered, threaded, mounted the barrel extension, modified the extension, port opening, bolt face, and extractor, bla bla bla...actually... that is almost all there is to it...

Who is rumore?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyder

Huh? I've built three... and by built I mean profiled, chambered, threaded, mounted the barrel extension, modified the extension, port opening, bolt face, and extractor, bla bla bla...actually... that is almost all there is to it...

Who is rumore?

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spyder,

Apologies if I came across as a complete A-hole and not trying to be one... You obviously have superb machining/gunsmith skills, but what is your "458S knowledge" (in a good/honest way)?

Marty obviously still has interest in his "baby" and Tony Rumore/Tromix helped him prototype:

- http://www.teppojutsu.com/ (See 458 SOCOM FAQ #1; yes, his web skills suck)
- http://www.tromix.com/

Sadly, there's now a LOT of fiction vs. fact out there, especially after the on-going Red Jacket joke that put the 458S on a "national-level" awareness. 458S is one freakin' awesome AR variant and I'd hate to see anybody get screwed, much less screw it up or even hurt! (See my 6.8 SPC II thread for how bad things can go... ;))

As you obviously know, the 458S is quite versatile but you also have to be a bit pressure-sensitive reloading, ESPECIALLY with the SOCOM TTSX... Yeah, I helped fund that endeavor. ;)

I do hope you'll come join us on the 458 SOCOM Forum: http://www.458socomforums.com/ (Sadly, was hacked/crashed just as hard, maybe harder than this forum a couple of years ago/still recovering but there are a LOT of WAY more knowledgeable folks than me over there... Post up your work and I bet Marty will "approve" you too. )

Once again, no offense intended... My interest is keeping the 458S "pure" as Marty intended when he handed his mass production design to RRA, BW shot some hogs got involved eventually just like 6.8 and finally Teppo tooling was sent off to SBR/Buddy while he's out of country...

[Beer]

B2

Wow, though I was going to have to break out some popcorn and pull up a comfortable chair and watch the fireworks....[LOL]

Too bad we are so widely spread out across the state, or we could have a 458S meet & shoot.
there seems to be a cornucopia of knowledge for this platform here, and I would love to pick a few brains while sending large chunks of lead down range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

Wow, though I was going to have to break out some popcorn and pull up a comfortable chair and watch the fireworks....[LOL]

Too bad we are so widely spread out across the state, or we could have a 458S meet & shoot.
there seems to be a cornucopia of knowledge for this platform here, and I would love to pick a few brains while sending large chunks of lead down range.

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I'm not a smart man -- We all get a bit crazy and stressed at times! [Whacko]

On the other hand, I'd love to keep "AR Big Bores" on track and no additional BS introduced.

B2

FWIW, PMAGs can be problematic/non-functional w/ the custom developed Barnes 458 TTSX loads w/out grinding out the upper rib... OTOH, GI Mags w/ the 30-sec Dremel half-moon job work mucho better. So far, unmodified PMAGs remain great for most anything shorter than ~2.10 - 2.13 COAL (TTSX is typically 2.250).

I can't vouch for any of the huge ~400-500 GR sub-sonic rounds nor suppressed anything.

Reminder TO ALL: If you're shooting a 458S and see flattening on your primers/see marks you're WAY too hot!

ETA: spyder what are your thoughts?

Midway has .458 300 GR Sierra Pro-Hunter bullets in stock: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/578...nose-box-of-50 . Not the cheapest I've seen/not bad, but if you need 'em Sierra is a good company/product... Rumor is there are more REM bulk bullets on the way, but they likely won't be much cheaper.

As always, use safe reloading practices but this projectile is basically the same as the 300 REM and Hornady... Unless you're at near max loads, it should be GTG. Reminder: Weigh your charges carefully as you're basically still dealing w/ magnum pistol powders and easy to get a bit hot even on these reloads and wasn't designed to run at high pressure like most AR rounds.

B2

ETA: Still waiting on spyder to check in w/ additional 458S info... I'm always willing to help w/ cases/projectiles or whatever as the 458S is a very awesome AR variant but not one to be trifled with. Then again, I'm just a troll.

I picked up on a couple of boxes of the Hornadys a few weeks back when they were in stock.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699...oint-box-of-50

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

I picked up on a couple of boxes of the Hornadys a few weeks back when they were in stock.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699...oint-box-of-50

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SideShow Bob - I recently came across, err found an unopened box of 50 Barnes .458 (458 SOCOM label) 330 GR "Banded Solids"/Moly marked I forgot I had... [Peep]


No BS, do you have any experience/info?

I imagine with Barnes quality and "banded solids" they'll be good for brown bears, buffalo, engine blocks and the occasional neighborhood squirrel... I love the custom 458S TTSX projectiles but I can imagine a 330 GR solid punching pretty deep and both designed for relatively low-velocity.

B2

In all seriousness, 100% legally purchased/owned but I haven't researched and certainly not smart enough to remember if these are part of the "armor penetrating/no future sales" of certain Barnes solids from our ever benevolent BATFE... Figured you might help a "brudder" out as sadly the 458S Forum is a bit lame currently.


ETA: I'm on so many "lists" I don't care... Still waiting on sypder's 458 SOCOM thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyder

Huh? I've built three... and by built I mean profiled, chambered, threaded, mounted the barrel extension, modified the extension, port opening, bolt face, and extractor, bla bla bla...actually... that is almost all there is to it...

Who is rumore?

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Still waiting...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by babirl

Still waiting...

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NO RESPONSE = Noted... [facepalm]

OK, I'm no expert, nor a photographer, but a SERIOUS reminder for anybody with a 458 SOCOM/reloading how easy it is to get way over-pressure w/ previously referenced "pointy bullets"...



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...ps4cec3106.jpg


Both projectiles are 300 GR but please note the projectile length vs. case capacity... The custom 458S TTSX is nearly perfect/designed to expand even sub-sonic but it's WAY different than most .458 300gr loads!

As pictured, I did invest in getting the 458 Barnes TTSX manufactured... spyder please check in and where are your 458S builds?

Still willing to help...

B2

Attachment 31415 here's a couple

Attachment 31419another one,for real subsonic work

Attachment 31421 this being the size thread some builders use for cans, I use a larger diameter.

Attachment 31423socom , way left , with 2 lathe turned projectiles , the one thats not in the case makes a mess out of an elk.