I thought the guy handeled it beautifully.
http://www.break.com/index/detained-...-carry-2338359
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I thought the guy handeled it beautifully.
http://www.break.com/index/detained-...-carry-2338359
Oh and notice the liberal, dumbass comments below.
Sucks when the subject...I mean citizen...knows the law better than the detaining officer.
I don't know what the laws are in Oregon, but here that could be considered brandishing a weapon if citizens are calling in concerned for their safety that a man is walking with a gun. It would would not hold up in court, but would be enough for an officer to stop you, take your weapon to protect their safety, and run a NCIC search.
This guy is walking around in broad daylight with a gun on his hip in a manner or place that it would not be considered normal (hence the phone call to the police from the public) and had a video camera, a list of court proceeding, and some statutes that benefit his side only ready for when he was contacted by the police.
This guy was clearly being an ass and trying to cause some type of legal or civil issue with the police department.
Once again I don't know about Oregon, but here an officer can detain and transport a person for failure to provide identification.
I agree, the cop did a great job.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackthewall81
I think the guy talked way too much, but also think the police had no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, to justify the stop. Police are allowed to have consensual encounters, but once they took his gun, they lost that argument. He could not leave without his property. The guy did a good job overall. The Sargent knew his law and let him go.
I still don't understand why morons see a guy Open Carry and they have to call the cops. My fist thought seeing someone walking around open carrying a firearm would be this guys up to no good, he is obviously about to commit a crime(enter sarcasm here) because bad guys love to draw attention to themselves by showing of their gats before they pull some bad guy stuff.
There is so much wrong here I don't even know where to begin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatline
I totally agree with you. This guy was being a real ass. I guess walking around with a gun isn't considered being "suspicious" of doing something illegal.
Could had just handed his ID over and get it over with instead of rambling his mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatline
fresh from the re-education camp are we?
Yeah, him and deagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
ETA: It's a sad day when anybody, especially members of a gun forum, would call an informed, law abiding citizen who is exercising his God given, 2A protected rights an "ass".
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackthewall81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatline
WOW! Really.....
[ROFL2][ROFL3] only it really isn't funny! Sad to think they really believe this was all ok! Guess it's why our rights a being slowly eroded.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
But he did ramble his mouth, and the sarge let him go. Chalk one up for the ass who knows his rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by deagler
It is my understanding that a holster firearm can not be considered "brandished" unless the firearm & holster are getting waved around. I believe the term you were looking for is "menacing".Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatline
" How would any of you of handled this?"
Should read "how would you HAVE handled this?" That's what is really important here.
So how would you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by anomad
Hahaha, nice. Reminds me of this online poll I saw that asked "What would you like to see more sales on?" I looked for an option that included not ending sentences with prepositions, but couldn't find one.Quote:
Originally Posted by anomad
Back on topic.
I prob wouldn't have handled it as good as he did! Then again I would conceal.....
Portland, Maine
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../2898083/posts
The citizen handled the interaction very well. The officer clearly appeared to learn something from the interaction and hopefully he will be better prepared the next time he deals with a similar situation.
Any time everyone walks away and no one is injured, I'm relatively happy. If there was learning on top of that, I consider it a bonus.
Be safe.
i though he talked to much but did a good job. He handled it way better then prob would have if a cop flagged me with a loaded weapon. Thats when i would get mad and prob make a formal complaint.
He ran his mouth a lot but at least he had his facts in order. Can't say I'm as well prepared, which is why I'm hesitant to OC.
The guy knows his stuff, but is really friggen annoying. He just keeps running his mouth like a jack ass. Seriously, the cop was just doing his job, if someone calls in a suspicious guy carrying a gun, they have to check on you. If they check on you, you don't need to be a stupid pain in the ass like that guy was being. Why in your dumb ass mind would you think it is ok to try to be a punk like that guy was doing? It looks like he was showing off for his camera really. All he had to do was ask what he was being stopped for, hand over his gun and wait for his background check to pass. It could have been a whole hell of a lot easier for all of them. I see the guy as an educated jack ass personally. Why the hell would you be a dick and give the cops a hard time when all they are doing is their job responding to some retards complaint? It wasn't the cops fault!
Any officers want to chime in on how that guy handled it and how you as an officer would have handled him?
IMO, the best way for the cop to have handled the situation would have been to just chat the guy up. He didn't have to take the gun first thing. A simple, "Hey someone called in about a guy carrying a gun and we had to check on it."
The civilian talked alot, but I think that was adrenaline. He knew he was in a confrontation and was trying to make his case. He could have been more polite, especially after the cop swept him. "Please watch that muzzle, officer. I don't want to get hurt." The goal is to portray OC as a legal and "normal" behavior, not to convince people that you're a know-it-all.
The cop didn't have the chance as the guy was being a dick about everything and showing off. He did however tell the guy that he was called in by a concerned citizen (liberal jack ass) and that they were responding to the call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inconel710
Ah, but that was after he took the guy's gun. From what the video shows, it looks like the cop started off heavy by taking the gun THEN talking to the civilian. It's just speculation, but I think a different opening move might have ended differently. Note - I do agree the civilian is expecting trouble and found it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Hand over your gun? To Illegal search and seizure???Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
I think his point was that under the law he quoted; he couldn't be stopped for just "open carry"!! The cops were in the wrong the whole time!! that is why the supervisor said that he was free to go. I think the stop was "bullshit" and he made sure they knew....
We can't stand for harassment no matter how minor it is, the subservient attitude is what got us into this mess in the 1st place.... The cop shouldn't have made the stop unless he was "breaking the law" which he wasn't. The cop could have followed him observed him and then if he did something wrong stop him. Listen to the law he was quoting....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inconel710
Which one? I'm pretty sure everybody involved in this incident is a civilian...Quote:
Originally Posted by Inconel710
If you don't have a military identification card showing your rank, then you are a civilian!
Somebody help me out here, when a cop is called because of a "suspicious person" AKA a guy with a holstered gun, what is that called?
Now, my thing on this, is the cop has to respond to it. You then have a few choices, one, argue and try to make your point like that guy did in the video. Two, be nice and let the cop do what he is there to do which is to make sure you are legal to carry. Or three, have a nice calm conversation with the cop explaining everything in a calm manner (unlike Mr. Gun Rights Guy) with the cop letting him know that you know your shit. Now, I'm not an expert on this, but I thought in those situations, a cop has the right to check you out? I know what NRA guys say considering that they have taught at my school and I have heard from them while at the NRA center down here. I also know that everyone has their agenda and will tell others to "fight the good fight" if you will about "standing your legal ground" in situation like this. I want to hear from an officer on this board, what they can legally do if someone calls in a suspicious person with a gun? I think that would be helpful. [Beer]
Here's the dictionary definition of civilian:
1. A person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.
Just letting you know. [Beer]
Generally if you use tact when speaking with a police officer in situations like this they aren't gonna be dickheads. I open carry sometimes, even with police around Ive never been harassed nor did I give the public a reason to be concerned. When I open carry I use discretion (like ccw) and tact if people say anything
This video proves oregons public ignorant to gun laws (thus calling the cops) and douche bags open carrying to prove points on the internet, stirring shit up rather than protect himself.
I didn't watch the video, but is this the same guy that's known for putting himself in situations like this just so he can video it and put it on YouTube? The guy I'm thinking of is kind of a "baiter", in my opinion. Seen him baiting cops and Border Patrol officers before so he can spout and spew about his rights and quote laws, and get it all on camera.
<edit> Just watched a bit of it, sure sounds like the same asshole. Excercising your rights is fine, but doing it so you can bait cops and try your damnedest to piss 'em off ain't right. You can't tell me he's not doing that, because he's always prepared to video it, so that shows intent to cause a confrontation, IMO.
The US gov doesn't seem to recognize whatever dictionary that came from. As I understand it, peace officer is a civilian who has been trusted by the rest of their society to uphold and enforce the rules and laws that we have created to keep our society civil. LEOs are civilians, period. Sure, there's a distinction between a regular civilian and one that is a sworn officer, but they're still civilians and any officer that thinks otherwise is sorely mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Put it this way... If a cop refuses to do what their boss tells them, they get fired. If I refuse to do what my boss tells me, I could be facing an Article 15, a chapter separation, a Court Marshall, and time in a military prison, depending on how serious the offense is. A cop can quit anytime they want. If I decide I don't want to do my job anymore, tough shit cause I'm govt. property. A cop answers to local and state entities. Military answers to the Dept. of Defense.
Also, that definition would mean that all the Nat. Guard and Reserve personell would be considered civilians, not military, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
ETA: The Oxford American Dictionary defines a civilian as anyone not serving in the armed forces. Says nothing about police, or fire departments, and makes no distinction between those on active-duty or reserve status.
My thoughts exactly. It seems to me he wanted a confrontation.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
I'd have fallen to the ground after the first contact from a club or a tazer. Where do these guys find such patient peace officers. That camera must have been big and in plain view with lots of witnesses around...that's what I think.
This is how this should have gone down:
Concerned Citizen: "Hi, 911? Yeah, um there is a guy walking around with a gun."
911: "Ok, what is he doing?"
CC: "He's walking around with a gun on his hip."
911: "Is he doing anything suspicious?"
CC: "Yeah, he's walking around with a gun in a holster on his hip."
911: "That's not illegal. Goodbye."
I don't know why you would identify yourself with someone who is clearly behaving poorly with the intent to cause a confrontation with the police in order to gain some sense of self satisfaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpienads
I am not saying that the officers involved followed the statutes verbatim in regards to open carry, however they were called to a suspicious man with a firearm. I do not believe that it was the officer's intent to impede this mans rights in any way.
I would like to strongly emphasize that this man was not defending your gun rights. He went out to either cause a confrontation with the police or satisfy some other pathological objective through his actions.
If he was protecting his/your gun rights, he would have explained what he was doing, given his identification, and done so in an appropriate and cordial manner. Because he instead acted in a self serving, rude, and confrontational manner I maintain that he is an ass.
Just to be clear, since you seem to have taking this personally, I am not calling you or anybody else in general an ass for open carrying and defending their rights. I am calling him an ass because of of his apparent intent and behavior.
You guys keep saying he was acting suspicious. What was he doing that was suspicious? Open carrying? Or did somebody who thinks guns are scary call the cops and say he was acting suspicious based solely on the fact that he had a gun? As far as I can tell, he didn't do anything wrong.
Would I open carry just so that I could spout off some legal cases to the first cop that stopped me? No. And if that is the only reason he did it, maybe he is a bit of an ass. But that doesn't mean he did anything wrong, nor does it justify the cop forcing the guy to do anything he doesn't have to do.
I never stated that he was acting suspicious not am I accusing him of being a criminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpienads
That is exactly my point. If I thought he was a criminal I would accuse him of being a criminal. He is an ass, I called him an ass because that is what he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpienads
And on the cop bit, I think that the cop was not trying to impede on his rights, I think that he was called to a suspicious male with a gun (yes, the citizen who called in/call taker considered his apparent legal actions to be dangerous without there seeming to be a basis of any need for the police) and acted in a manner to protect his own safety while responding to a potentially dangerous call (most calls for a man with a gun do not turn out to be a person trying to make some type of political statement or other self serving behavior). It seems that the cop did not follow statute verbatim, but instead acted in what seemed to me to be a reasonable nature in response to the nature of the call.
I apologize if my earlier statements had mislead you.