Should I report to ATF

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11-12-2012, 14:21
Atrain1

Should I report to ATF

A guy called me from NY asking about my Armslist add. He asked how we would do the transaction to which I said cash (Before I knew he was from NY) he then asked if I would take PayPal, I told him I did not have an account. At this point he said he was from NY and said he would not mail cash. When I told him he had to go through an FFL he got kind off weird and muttered something then we ended the conversation. I am just wondering if I should report him before he finds someone who will send him a gun, which makes sites like Armslist look bad. Thanks
11-12-2012, 14:25
zteknik

Since you didn't do anything wrong on your end,I personaly wouldn't bother.
ATF probably has their hands full and wouldn't be able to follow up on it.

However I would put a disclaimer in your add to say must ship to ffl if out of state to cover your but.
11-12-2012, 14:27
Sawin

Call him back and talk to him further. Maybe if you can get him to understand the FFL process and how simple it is, he might still be a good potential buyer. That of course, is only true if you're selling a gun that's legal in NY. If he's clearly trying to circumvent the legally required process, and openly admits to it, then yes you should report him.
11-12-2012, 14:37
zteknik

If he is trying to purchase a pistol from you,he must go through an ffl.
Pistols in NY must go on the purchasers pistol permit.
11-12-2012, 14:46
Sparky

I wouldn't report it.
11-12-2012, 14:48
Jeff350

It probably was the BATFE, so no reason to call them! [PoPo]
11-12-2012, 15:03
Sawin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff350

It probably was the BATFE, so no reason to call them! [PoPo]

That crossed my mind too, which is exactly why you SHOULD report it... if you don't report blatant criminal attempts then they'll just throw you on their list as one of the "bad guys" too, don't you think?
11-12-2012, 15:29
DavieD55

No need to report that.
11-12-2012, 15:36
JoeT

today I saw a guy try and walk across the street with a don't walk sign. Traffic was a little too heavy for him to do it,. Should I call Denver PD?
11-12-2012, 15:38
CrufflerSteve

As long as you didn't offer to do anything illegal just fuhgeddaboudit. I think the Batmen do some trolling. Years ago I was selling a pistol through the newspaper classified's. Someone called me and wanted to pay full price but he was 'just in for the day from California'. I had no idea of the laws other than knowing about an FFL so I said no. Years later I was selling on Gunbroker when someone emailed me that he was in Colorado and was prohibited but he'd have a friend pick it up. I told him to forget about it and blacked him from bidding on my auctions.

Steve
11-12-2012, 15:44
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atrain1

When I told him he had to go through an FFL he got kind off weird and muttered something then we ended the conversation. I am just wondering if I should report him before he finds someone who will send him a gun, which makes sites like Armslist look bad. Thanks

A) he didn't do anything illegal
B) Armslist already looks bad, you're too late to prevent that
11-12-2012, 16:06
Dingo

Doesn't matter if he's gov't or private citizen - you already did your due diligence by telling him he needed an FFL. I'd drop it and just chalk it up to the general air of disreputable weirdness at AL.
11-12-2012, 16:20
Busta Prima

You did exactly the right thing in bringing up the FFL. There is no need to report it.
11-12-2012, 16:27
Zundfolge

I wouldn't report someone to ATF (or any authority for that matter) unless I was absolutely certain it was the only way to keep an honestly bad person from obtaining a gun.

There's a lot of basically decent folk out there that don't know anything about the laws surrounding the buying and selling of guns and I certainly wouldn't want to sic the kitten stompers at F-Troop on some poor fool that just didn't know any better.
11-12-2012, 16:48
sniper7

No. Its possible he did a search and didn't pay attention to the location. No deal was done. Nothing illegal. Who cares
11-12-2012, 16:53
BlasterBob

Quote:

Originally Posted by zteknik

If he is trying to purchase a pistol from you,he must go through an ffl.
Pistols in NY must go on the purchasers pistol permit.

And, if he is trying to purchase a long gun from you here in CO, it also has to go through a FFL.
11-12-2012, 17:03
james_bond_007

Aside from the FFL issue I've got some questions.

1) By "CASH" I assume you mean only the green stuff with the presidents on it.
If I were making an "mail order" purchase, I would not want to send CASH either.
I guess you could "insure" it, though.

2) Why would you not want to accept a MO, or Cashier's check?
Or let him know that you'll have to wait until payment clears or can be verified ?

3) MO and Cashier checks protect against loss or theft, but not against dishonest parties.

Nothing personal, but you are a stranger to him, and vice-versa. How does HE know that you won't abscond with the cash and not send the item ?
You can at least protect against his potential "fake" check by waiting for it to clear before sending the item.

4) Why not report it to armslist ?
It is their reputation with which you are concerned.
Tell them your story and let THEM follow up as they see fit.
11-12-2012, 17:17
Tim K

I'm pretty sure the ATF guys who monitor this site click on every thread with their agency acronym in the title. They probably already know.
11-12-2012, 17:17
68Charger

Probably one of Bloomberg's lackeys...
11-12-2012, 17:23
brutal

IMHO, the only form of guaranteed payment that cannot be recalled or disputed is USPS MO and it's also common practice on "other" gun sites as the only acceptable form of payment in private transactions. You cash them at the PO with ID required and payment is guaranteed cash back from the PO. USPS MO protects the buyer against mail fraud. I would never mail or ship cash. Fastest way to a loss there is.

Cashier's checks, unless chased directly at the issuer, are easily forged.
11-12-2012, 18:26
BlasterBob

Even the USPS MO's are not 100% guaranteed for payment any more. Now, when you take that MO to the Post Office window to cash it, you will note that they are checking the SN on the MO against a list of MO SN's to make certain that it was not stolen or is some how illegal.
Cash placed right in your palm is about the only sure way but then watch those bills as they too could be bogus. Also, cashiers checks can be duplicated and some of those have been proven to be bogus.
One negative thing about the USPS cashing their own MO's - they don't always have enough cash on hand and it happens often that we must return to their office later in the day after they have accumulated enough cash to handle the MO. I have attempted to cash one of their MO's at 10:00 AM for only $75 and they did not have enough cash on hand.
11-12-2012, 18:53
Ashton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim K

I'm pretty sure the ATF guys who monitor this site click on every thread with their agency acronym in the title. They probably already know.

This.
11-12-2012, 18:59
brokenscout

Its Bloomberg........
11-12-2012, 19:08
Atrain1

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_bond_007

Aside from the FFL issue I've got some questions.

1) By "CASH" I assume you mean only the green stuff with the presidents on it.
If I were making an "mail order" purchase, I would not want to send CASH either.
I guess you could "insure" it, though.

2) Why would you not want to accept a MO, or Cashier's check?
Or let him know that you'll have to wait until payment clears or can be verified ?

3) MO and Cashier checks protect against loss or theft, but not against dishonest parties.

Nothing personal, but you are a stranger to him, and vice-versa. How does HE know that you won't abscond with the cash and not send the item ?
You can at least protect against his potential "fake" check by waiting for it to clear before sending the item.

4) Why not report it to armslist ?
It is their reputation with which you are concerned.
Tell them your story and let THEM follow up as they see fit.

I did not know at that time it was going to be through the mail, I thought he was in CO at first.
11-12-2012, 19:39
hammer03

It was probably Bloomberg's army trying to take down Armslist.
11-12-2012, 21:49
Sawin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zundfolge

I wouldn't report someone to ATF (or any authority for that matter) unless I was absolutely certain it was the only way to keep an honestly bad person from obtaining a gun.

There's a lot of basically decent folk out there that don't know anything about the laws surrounding the buying and selling of guns and I certainly wouldn't want to sic the kitten stompers at F-Troop on some poor fool that just didn't know any better.

This is precisely what I was thinking in my earlier posts, and why I suggested calling him back to talk further. Heck, he might end up being a paying customer since he was interested enough to reach out in the first place... If you don't talk to him again, and you told him about the FFL requirement, etc. Then of course don't report it. In the event that you had a longer discussion and it was obvious that he was trying to finagle an illegal deal and was aware of the legally required process and you felt he was troubled, wasn't going to stop, etc...that's when I meant to report it.
11-12-2012, 22:51
sneakerd

I don't understand why the op is unable to make this decision on his own.
11-13-2012, 04:57
Byte Stryke

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeT

today I saw a guy try and walk across the street with a don't walk sign. Traffic was a little too heavy for him to do it,. Should I call Denver PD?

Joe always puttin things into perspective.
11-13-2012, 10:08
BPTactical

The man did not commit any violation and neither did you. BATFE would more than likely not be interested.
11-13-2012, 10:24
spqrzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPTactical

The man did not commit any violation and neither did you. BATFE would more than likely not be interested.

This. Uncompleted crimes are not what get ATF people brownie points.
11-16-2012, 00:58
Atrain1

Quote:

Originally Posted by spqrzilla

This. Uncompleted crimes are not what get ATF people brownie points.

Just trying to get some input cause I know they would love to shut down PP sales. I had a guy call me today and tell me he would take all 3 of my Parker 10mm's. I said great we can meet any time. He said I do not have a CO ID cause I work in the Oilfield will you still sell to me? I said no I cannot legally do that. He then asked if I could sell to his friend who had a CO ID? I said no I cannot do that either cause I know it is not for him. This is like the 3rd or 4th call from out of state or someone with an out of state ID calling me. What is the deal here?
11-16-2012, 08:14
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atrain1

Just trying to get some input cause I know they would love to shut down PP sales. I had a guy call me today and tell me he would take all 3 of my Parker 10mm's. I said great we can meet any time. He said I do not have a CO ID cause I work in the Oilfield will you still sell to me? I said no I cannot legally do that. He then asked if I could sell to his friend who had a CO ID? I said no I cannot do that either cause I know it is not for him. This is like the 3rd or 4th call from out of state or someone with an out of state ID calling me. What is the deal here?

It's called Fishing. You either take the bait, or walk away and remain a firearm owner.

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