9news link to the story.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/31...ern-at-Walmart
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9news link to the story.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/31...ern-at-Walmart
He should have called the police ahead of time. It just makes it better for everyone when trying a publicity stunt.
If anyone knows this guy ill give him a Ccw class for free. So that when he's 21 this isn't necessary
I know it's legal and all but really don't think this helps the cause.
He's not the first to try it in recent months. Personally, I don't think there's anything courageous about it - the guy's naive and ignorant at best, and an attention-craving douchebag at worst. We want non-gun people to respect our rights to own and bear arms, and yet it's ok to deliberately antagonize the situation, despite knowing their reservations? That's the entire point of concealed carry - the ability to be armed discreetly. If it was a rural community where more people openly carried, nobody would think anything of it. But going into a mixed-reception area like a college town Walmart, and ramming the gun thing down everybody's throats... I'm leaning toward him just being a douchebag. I can respect somebody else's beliefs that they don't want to own a gun, and are nervous about/around them, as long as they're not infringing on my rights therein. And vice versa - while I'm armed 100% of the time, I don't shove it in everybody's face. While we may have a right to open carry, it doesn't mean it's always a good idea. While not quite as openly offensive, this reminds me of a person claiming they're exercising their right to free speech and peaceful assembly by picketing military funerals...
^^This
Well said dingo!
Okay, two lines of thought here:
First, this guy is 19yo and the other thread about the first guy doing this (and calling cops to inform them first) was 22yo. I think if they were older, in their 40s, it might make a bigger difference in getting their message across. Especially since a majority of the massacres (in fact, nearly all that I can remember) are done at the hands of teens to 25yo's. So naturally, the demographic is young kids carrying rifles into places and shooting. Did these guys NOT think that they'd alarm people?
On the other hand, imagine how the public and government would react if we got just 50%, heck even just 25%, of gun owners to start carrying RIFLES openly. Sure, National Gun Appreciation day seems to have made a public point and was a nice gathering with speakers, but I'm sure not everyone could be there for work or other reasons. But if, say, for the month of February, we got thousands of gun owners to carry their rifles everywhere with them, it would cause widespread panic. People would turn every corner and see a rifle, then call the cops to report it. The cops would be inundated with calls and surely would be required to issue a public statement that what these gun owners are doing is perfectly legal. This also might make politicians realize that we, as gun owners, are NOT willing to back down on our God given rights to defend ourselves, and what our natural born rights as United States of America citizens are given by the Bill of Rights.
The first thread on this subject, I had mixed feelings, saying that I wouldn't do it myself. But if I knew there were hundreds of thousands of other gun owners carrying their rifles openly, I'd be very willing to do it.
Let's do it like the LGBT's did, openly shove it in your face until you're willing to accept it as normal, and don't back down until EVERY tv show has a gun in it! Cause, you know, all tv shows now have at least one gay person in them... [Peep]
I would be all for that as long as we can get the hot women to carry rifles like they do in Israel. They are not scary.
The open carry people are gun rights activists. I sort of support them but wouldn't do it. It can lead to hostile encounters with LEO's and arrest. I respect what they do but I'm not so sure of it as a good tactic.
I tend to agree with Fred here that we're fracturing into two countries with two opposing world views. http://www.fredoneverything.net/Severus.shtml
The open carry people push the button of the other country. That's both good and bad.
Okay, now we're talkin!Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
I'll talk to my Fiancee and have her carry my M&P15T. Thats two, anybody else in?
I see the points everyone is making about this being dumb or not well thought out, however, I'll present a counter-point... How is this hurting "the cause"? It's already been hurt beyond repair. I was not alive for it, but there once was a time where walking around with a rifle on your shoulder was no big deal. People weren't afraid of guns back when, and now the new paradigm is that we must fear guns and anytime a gun is spotted call the police! It's a disgrace! So it's stupid to exercise your rights? What if I were to walk around with a "Fuck Barrack" tee shirt? Would anyone call the cops because I'm exercising my 1st Amendment right? Doubtful. We need to help to educate, inform, and make it normal for guns to be seen in public where it's perfectly legal. Yes, this kid is drawing unwanted or unwarranted attention to himself, but I think if more did this eventually it would become normal to see guns, of course that would take a while... But it's a step in the right direction. I applaud this young man for exercising his rights and proving that armed, law abiding individuals don't just run around maniacally killing others.
Ronin, I see your point, but I think it comes down to an issue of respect. Would I love it if the 80 million gun owners could congeal as a collective and start openly carrying? Sure. I'd jump in with both feet and stride proudly around town with my AK slung over my shoulder. But we do live in a very polarized, split society right now. A good 50% of the populace still feels threatened by guns and open displays like that. Just because the gays/illegals/liberals/assorted minorities are attempting to ram their beliefs down our throat, doesn't make it ok for us to do the same. As Americans who believe in the principles we were founded on, it's about being on the more mature, upright side of things. Until things disintegrate to the event horizon of open revolution, I still intend to at least attempt to be respectful of non-gun-owners beliefs, no matter how much I disagree with or oppose them.
I agree, but it's not ramming anything down anyone's throat carrying a firearm openly. I see the "gay agenda" proudly displayed EVERYWHERE and that I consider being rammed down our throats... a few guys carrying a gun legally is not pushing or being disrespectful... of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
I don't see that as fair comparison. A rainbow sticker is the same as an NRA sticker on your window. The "gay agenda" version of open carrying a rifle in Walmart would be walking around Target wearing only assless chaps and a leather policeman's hat.
Or going to Chick-fil-a and demonstrating?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_L
Good example, assuming you're referring to PDA.
Correct. I'm just becoming jaded to all of this. I'm expected to be tolerant of everything except my right to open carry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61
Ass-less chaps... AGREED. And thanks for the nasty visual. lol.
Except the fact that it's invading every single TV show out there... Next Nat Geo is going to have a show called "Gay Cops" or something... I'm kind of tired of it. I don't want to see the gay culture everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61
They can get married and parade around all day for all I give a shit. What they do is between them and God. As long as they keep their cum-encrusted fingers off of my guns and the rights thereof.
You just get one channel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
+1 what Dingo said. Yes, the gun-owning portion of society are semi-fine with it, but I doubt there are very many non-gun-owning moms with children there who appreciate this kind of behavior in their face, just shopping for groceries. It's about common sense, not the attitude "hey it's legal, so I'll do whatever I wish".
Same principal as publishing a "convenient" map and list of gun owners in NewYork or on Gawker.com. SURE IT'S LEGAL, BUT should you really do it? Is it honorable? Is it benefitting the public good?! Is it harming anyone? Yeah, actually it might be harming those owners, making them targets for thieves!
Common sense and logic, use it, think BEYOND two dimensions. Same advice for the douchebag principals and teachers suspending children for toys and paper guns.
It's kind of like the arrangement I have with my parents. I love and respect my dad, but he's always been uncomfortable around guns. When the family and I go over to their house, I don't advertise my carry piece and keep it discreetly concealed at all times, even though it can get uncomfortable after a few hours at the dinner table. He knows I'm carrying but doesn't ask me not to, I know he doesn't like guns so I don't show it off. We've both adopted a respectful attitude about it.
Legal? Check.
Attention-grabbing? Check.
Stupid? Check.
Counterproductive? Check.
Maybe we can get him on that MTV program ...
NO. it's NOT like that at all. The anti-gunners aren't like your Dad. They have ZERO respect for you as a gun owner. They're working tirelessly and diligently to TAKE AWAY your rights, not just of gun ownership, but of liberty & freedoms. There's a huge difference between your father and those anti-gunners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
I'm siding with Ronin here, and standing by what I've said in the past: our rights are rights. Period. If my right makes others uncomfortable, especially because they've been brainwashed, so be it. Guns are not to be feared.
What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you all not get? Enjoy your false sense of security and your compromise with the brainwashed masses. It won't end well.
No, but it would seem to me that Nat Geo and the Military Channel are the only ones I can stand anymore because they're not like NBC/CBS/Fox/ABC/anything else that constantly displays shows about the "we're here, we're queer" culture 9 out of 10 minutes of every show. I have no problem with gays, I'm just tired of seeing it ALL THE DAMN TIME. Hell, last night at the Rodeo, the clown kept acting like he was light in the loafers, almost the entire time! Okay, it was funny for the first 3 minutes, now it's just annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61
YES! Hippies and their World Peace BS make me uncomfortable, but I buck up and deal with it and don't infringe upon their rights. [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by sellersm
It almost seems to "taunt" the law.
Yes, it is legal, but is seems to , in a way, be saying
"Hey, I found a loophole. Maybe you should pass some more laws to close it."
Ah, there's that good ol' hostility I knew had to be inbound eventually. I view the general populace who is uncomfortable with guns, drastically differently than the traitorous politicians deliberately trying to disarm me as part of their larger totalitarian agenda. I don't view Joe Q Wal-mart Patron who's afraid of guns as the enemy. They vote for questionable people because they're ignorant and largely brought up by the engineered culture on TV. The govt is an entirely different story - I believe their attempt to disarm is a malicious, illegal, and carefully calculated attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by sellersm
One further consideration... I would honestly be uncomfortable if somebody was walking around with a loaded rifle in the grocery store, and I'm as vehemently pro-gun as you'll ever find. Would I call the cops on the guy? No. But I would be taken into a hyper-vigilant state that I don't care for, and would probably try to get my family out of the immediate area. "Guy carrying gun" does not automatically equate with "common-sense gun-owner". Aside from the confrontational attitude already implied by doing it in the first place, how do I know what this guy's safety ethics are? I see long time "gun people" doing stupid shit all the time, like sweeping buddies with loaded guns while talking, standing around with fingers on the trigger etc. At least by having it concealed, there's a slightly higher implied level of awareness, and the bonus is that it doesn't raise anybody's blood pressure.
Because society at large does not open carry firearms, and with everybody in a panic-mode after all of the recent mass-shootings, I still think it's disrespectful to freak people out like that. Regardless of what my rights are. Forgetting that it's legal, is it fair to immediately make everyone in the store wonder if they're going to be cowering for cover when he opens fire? People don't think 2nd Amendment when they see something like that, they think about what they've seen on the news recently. Parents worry about their kids, people get scared, and it's disrespectful, arrogant, and belligerent to infringe on THEIR right to buy some fucking groceries without worrying about being shot.
Ultimately it comes down to this:
Do I think that kid had a right to carry the rifle in Walmart that should "not be infringed" upon? Yes.
Do I think he's an asshole for exercising that right inappropriately in a confrontational manner, for attention-seeking reasons? Yes.
aren't all chaps "ass-less"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
I agreel with this. Why hide what we believe in? It does not help the cause of protecting our rights if we don't show that there is more than just a few. I agree with the LGBT statement, guns are now looked apon the same as gay were once looked apon. Not right and taboo!Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffCyclist
You're right.. The cause is hurt beyond repair and we can never 'win'. We should give up now. Where should I turn my stuff in at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Little victories add up over time. When you're older you will realize this. ;)
I really hate to be "that guy" but if I don't say it, who will? You are part of the problem. Just my honest assessment of this comment, not being hostile or anything. You may be pro-2A, you may be a good, responsible gun owner, hell, you may even make a good candidate for the NRA board... but by saying you're uncomfortable with a person carrying a gun in public, wanting to "move your family out of the immediate area" and calling this action "attention whore" type of action makes you, in my eyes, no different than the average sheep who do not understand the sheep dogs among them, thus they fear us. Granted, my experience is slightly skewed, because I spent an entire year of my life among people walking around with loaded rifles... We had 1 ND in a 12-month period... I'd say that's pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
Ultimately it comes down to this:
Educate the masses that guns are not to be feared, and gun owners are not crazy- if we continually did this through the responsible exercise of our rights eventually we could shift the mentality that we currently have in our society.
Exercise your rights. Stand up and defend your rights. Now is not the time to criticize and call fellow gun owners assholes. It's the guy who carries a gun and has a incident of negligence that we call assholes, or the guy who carries irresponsibly. Not the one doing absolutely nothing wrong. [Beer]
I should have worded that differently- our cause has been tarnished and it's an uphill battle to turn that around.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmotao
I liked the points brought up about the demographics. I can almost guarantee you that an older gentlemen in a French-cuff dress shirt, nice slacks, and upper end loafers (et cetera) wouldn't cause a fuss at all, if he was open carrying a holstered double action revolver. Open carry really isn't my thing, but I applaud those who do it in taste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Some gun owners are crazy and negligent.
I think that an event like this points out the great discrepancy between the anti-2A's efforts and the pro-2A's efforts! Where are the PRO gun messages? Where's the NRA, GOA, RMGO, etc.'s "propaganda" campaigns to make the public less afraid of guns? If we were all born 100 years ago or more, we'd NOT be having this conversation! Guns aren't to be feared. If they're really that bad, how'd we survive as people for this long?
I'm not happy, obviously, with the pro-2A's efforts to counter the tide of brainwashing that the anti's have been doing so effectively? Outside of influencing one or two people at a time, what can we do to help turn the tide of 'public opinion' that "guns are evil and should never be seen in public"?
Ronin:
No offense taken, you're entitled to your view. I think my view on this is more the context, than the actual act. I live in Castle Rock, and frequently see guys in suits walking around with something strapped to their hip. Honestly never gave a second glance. Perfect example: My wife and I were in Chile's a few weeks ago, and saw a large group of salespeople of some sort come in for lunch. Three of the guys were carrying. I never thought twice about it, gave a "good for you" nod when eye contact was made, and felt safer for having more guns in the building. It's all about context. For example - I wouldn't feel out of place at all getting gas with a pistol on my hip, or having dinner at Village Inn, etc etc. I'm just saying it makes sense to be aware of the situation around you, and be respectful accordingly. This is a teenager walking into a large crowded area with a rifle.
Imagine walking into a theatre with a rifle... if the theatre hasn't specifically banned it, then sure - it's your right. But would anybody in their right mind do that today?
I Agree completely, we should concede the right to OC entirely and skulk around in the shadows.
Making something Commonplace has NEVER Work for desensitization.
[facepalm]
So? Some cops let their badge go to their head. Some firefighters have an over inflated ego. Some democrats are staunch supporters of communism. These are minorities that people allow to tarnish the image of an entirety. This is what's wrong with our country. This needs to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker61