9mm AR couple questions

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02-04-2013, 10:42
Danimal

9mm AR couple questions

So I ordered one of these:

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...psb2fd1cf9.jpg

I don't know when or if it will ever get here due to the fluctuation in wait times (they said 3 weeks when I ordered, but the conformation email said that was a rough estimate and it might take a lot longer) so I guess we will see. My first question is about the bolt required for this to work. I have seen several that say compatible with Glock mags, but are they all compatible with this lower? I emailed them when I ordered and I have not gotten a reply as of yet, so I am getting anxious to order the rest of the parts that I need. Some people were even talking about modifying other 9mm bolts to work with Glock mag lowers, and they said that any machine shop could do it easily? But I don't even know what to ask for to get one modified. Could anyone show me what the difference is?

Here is my whole thought process, I wanted one that works with Glock mags because I did not want to try and find new "high cap" uzi mags from now until they are banned, and it is nice to use the mags that I already have. Being that I made this choice for a lower, what are the best options for damper and hammer? I have read a ton about the differences between colt and oly configurations, but I still don't know what the best options are and what will work most reliably for this platform. I did a lot of research before I ordered this lower and I think this is about as good as it gets for my desired uses, I don't want to screw it up by ordering the wrong or poor performing components to go with it. Again I would ask the manufacturer these questions but they are totally swamped.

My last question is about barrels. Are they all the same? As long as the bolt and mag type are compatible the barrel should work the same for either right? Thanks for your help in advance.
02-04-2013, 11:23
Great-Kazoo

You need a CMMG/ Colt / Hahn/ lone wolf style upper assy. What does the lower mfg recommend?
Based on what i am seeing outside the magazine it looks like any other (outside olympic) 9mm conversion feed ramps / ejector unit done by the posted mfg.
just a few links.

http://www.riflegear.com/c-52-9mm-uppers.aspx

http://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/Prod...y=9mm%20Uppers

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...87826&CAT=2895
02-04-2013, 13:28
Danimal

Thanks for the info Jim. I put a link to the Lower in the first line of the post, though now I realize that it is a little hard to see that it exists. The lower is a Double Diamond LE supply and the BCG it recommends is here:

http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply....er-Bolt-BB.htm

It says that it is unavailable, however, and I do not know if this is a standard BCG that is used on multiple platforms or if it is a proprietary piece that would need to be bought from them. I just don't know what the difference is, or what the different options are. As far as the upper goes I have a stripped upper with barrel already, I just don't know if there is a specific set of components that are needed to make it function reliably.

Again they said that their response would be weeks out and I am just trying to do some research so that I can get the parts ordered that I need so that it can be coming together around the same time period because I am unsure of the availability of parts in the future. So I have to go off of the info that they provide on their site and a couple random forums in the interweb and it is still not that clear to me.

Do I need a special trigger group?
Do I need a special charging handle?
Other than a pistol lower build kit, do I need other 9mm specific parts?
Are there any other sources for bolts that will work on this platform? RRA?
02-04-2013, 13:57
ThunderSquirrel

I have a DDLES (Colt Pattern Mag) lower that I built into an SBR.
My Build used...
-BCM Gunfighter Grip
-CMMG Standard AR LPK (Except bolt catch, already had one installed from DDLES)
-KNS Pins
-PWS Buffer Tube (had to modify the tube, the lower was not threaded completely through)
-Flat wire spring and CMMG 9mm buffer, no spacer
-CMMG ramped bolt, so I can use a standard hammer.
-RRA 9mm Upper (I'm picky and didn't want the gas tube hole drilled in the front, or a FA.)
-ADCO 5" Barrel 1/28 Threaded (feed ramps lined up perfectly with the lower)
-Gunfighter Charging Handle
-DD Lite 4" Rail

I can tell you that the DD Lite Rail, and the PWS Buffer Tube did not fit without a little modification.

Obligatory Pictures...
http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w...3/DSC03415.jpg
02-04-2013, 15:48
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSquirrel

I have a DDLES (Colt Pattern Mag) lower that I built into an SBR.
My Build used...
-BCM Gunfighter Grip
-CMMG Standard AR LPK (Except bolt catch, already had one installed from DDLES)
-KNS Pins
-PWS Buffer Tube (had to modify the tube, the lower was not threaded completely through)
-Flat wire spring and CMMG 9mm buffer, no spacer
-CMMG ramped bolt, so I can use a standard hammer.
-RRA 9mm Upper (I'm picky and didn't want the gas tube hole drilled in the front, or a FA.)
-ADCO 5" Barrel 1/28 Threaded (feed ramps lined up perfectly with the lower)
-Gunfighter Charging Handle
-DD Lite 4" Rail

I can tell you that the DD Lite Rail, and the PWS Buffer Tube did not fit without a little modification.

Obligatory Pictures...
http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w...3/DSC03415.jpg

That is a sharp looking setup. What sights are those?
02-04-2013, 16:08
ThunderSquirrel

Troy Folding Battle Sights.

Even with the short sight base it is remarkably accurate. Last time I took it out, we were shooting 20"x30" steel plates with it at ~200 yards. Granted, that is with a LOT of holdover and no real grouping. But I regularly shoot it at 100yds and can easy hit an 8" target with the irons.

I recently found an XPS, so that sits on top of it now, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.
02-04-2013, 17:39
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal

Thanks for the info Jim. I put a link to the Lower in the first line of the post, though now I realize that it is a little hard to see that it exists. The lower is a Double Diamond LE supply and the BCG it recommends is here:

http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply....er-Bolt-BB.htm

It says that it is unavailable, however, and I do not know if this is a standard BCG that is used on multiple platforms or if it is a proprietary piece that would need to be bought from them. I just don't know what the difference is, or what the different options are. As far as the upper goes I have a stripped upper with barrel already, I just don't know if there is a specific set of components that are needed to make it function reliably.

Again they said that their response would be weeks out and I am just trying to do some research so that I can get the parts ordered that I need so that it can be coming together around the same time period because I am unsure of the availability of parts in the future. So I have to go off of the info that they provide on their site and a couple random forums in the interweb and it is still not that clear to me.

Do I need a special trigger group?
Do I need a special charging handle?
Other than a pistol lower build kit, do I need other 9mm specific parts?
Are there any other sources for bolts that will work on this platform? RRA?

As mentioned above Colt pattern= CMMG RRA and a few others. I use a rounded AR hammer nothing special, same charging handle. I run suppressed 11" 223/ and 10 " 9mm (oly style) on a factory DPMS lower with heavy buffer. All works very well.
The only down side to the Colt pattern is they al need some minor tweaking to find that sweet spot.

Under the Armory section of arfcom is a lot of info. The whole 9mm how do i ? regarding those style 9mm's has been discussed ad nauseam . Lots of tech tips, hints, etc.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_3/15_Ri..._Calibers.html
02-05-2013, 09:48
ThunderSquirrel

I was lucky enough that the gun cycled reliably the first time I shot it. No failure to feed, no extraction problems, and bolt hold open every time. And its continued to be reliable every time since. Once the stamp clears on my can, we'll see if it requires any tweaking once its suppressed.

The only "tweaking" i had to do was with assembly, to get the PWS Tube and the DD Rail to fit.
02-05-2013, 11:23
Danimal

Thanks for the link Jim. There is a bunch of info on there, I have intentionally avoided becoming a member there, but I might just have to look around a bit and see what I can find.

I read about the differences in the Colt and Oly pattern lowers, but it does not make sense to me here because the mag is to the rear of the mag well but it is at a forward angle to the point where it is sort of centered? I wish that they would just answer my emails at the DDLES so that I could know for sure what to buy. I guess that their communication is pretty terrible there, but their product is top notch. I suppose I would rather it be that way than other way around.
02-05-2013, 11:28
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSquirrel

I was lucky enough that the gun cycled reliably the first time I shot it. No failure to feed, no extraction problems, and bolt hold open every time. And its continued to be reliable every time since. Once the stamp clears on my can, we'll see if it requires any tweaking once its suppressed.

The only "tweaking" i had to do was with assembly, to get the PWS Tube and the DD Rail to fit.

I want to get a suppressor for this so bad, and I want to get one that I can throw on my 300BLK upper as well. I know that there are a few out there that will do both, but I need to decide if I want to set up a trust or what I want to do. I am getting excited for this build to be finished though. I just ordered one of these to go on it. I have a 10.5 inch barrel so now I just need to find a Noveske KX3 in stock somewhere and I will be set. Oh and the damn bolt.
03-09-2013, 22:35
mikeh1911

1 Attachment(s)

I have a 5 1/2 in 9 mm barrel AR Attachment 23293 upper and am waiting to get my 9mm AAC TiRant paper work back from ATFE. I'm also hoping I can use this can with sub-sonic 300 Blackout ammo.
09-24-2013, 03:12
Danimal

My DDLES glock mag lower finally shipped and is ready for pickup so now I have to find a bolt. I have one on order from RRA, but they still have no ETA on the order and I do not think that it is going to work. It says that for the Glock mags the bolt needs to be machined? Does anyone know more about this? Lone wolf says that they will do it for $44 plus shipping, but that sucks for a bolt that is already going to run about $200. If anyone knows of other solutions or has a source for bolts that are pre-machined I would appreciate it, and then I could tell Ms ass-hat at RRA that she and her 4 word email replys can shove it because I am buying from someone else.
09-24-2013, 07:17
Lurch

1 Attachment(s)

OK my first answer was wrong. But I did find out that you can mod the bolt yourself pretty easy it's just a matter of removing some material on the bottom to clear the mags. If you couldn't do it I'm sure Bert could in about 10 mins. Also there are plenty of CMMG bolts out there.

Attachment 34321
09-24-2013, 10:40
Great-Kazoo

In stock. FWIW: outside of the oly bolt that uses a stenm mag the rest are Colt style utilizing Uzi or Cproducts 9mm mags.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod27417.aspx
09-24-2013, 12:16
fullmann

Adco can mill your bolt to clear the GLOCK mag. The lower portion needs to be thinned out to fit between the GLOCK feed lips.

Any 'Colt' pattern blowback bolt will work, After the milling.

I finally got my DDLES lower a couple weeks ago. It's pretty sweet, just got to get it to the range to shoot it.
09-24-2013, 12:49
Danimal

If it is just a matter of thinning it out for clearance then I think that I will give it a go myself. I will have to look and see how involved it is and as long as there are no complex super important angles I will get out the metal files and dremel. Does anyone see any accurate instructions for working on it yourself? It is hard to tell what is right, and what is BS without holding all important pieces in my hands to see how they fit.
09-24-2013, 13:17
Lurch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal

If it is just a matter of thinning it out for clearance then I think that I will give it a go myself. I will have to look and see how involved it is and as long as there are no complex super important angles I will get out the metal files and dremel. Does anyone see any accurate instructions for working on it yourself? It is hard to tell what is right, and what is BS without holding all important pieces in my hands to see how they fit.

The picture I found was in a thread on another site and he said it was easy and it took about 1 1/2 of those green bits he was using. Looks to me like you are only working on the flat surface on the bottom side of the bolt. So if you have a steady hand I would go for it.
09-24-2013, 14:05
fullmann

Found a pic of the work that needs to be done...

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...ps60f09aa2.jpg
09-24-2013, 23:19
mikeh1911

1 Attachment(s)

I finally got the can and now she is complete
09-25-2013, 02:48
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeh1911

I finally got the can and now she is complete

That is a sharp looking setup. I got mine all together today minus the bolt and I got all giggly and tactically swept my house. I will post some pics here soon.
09-25-2013, 02:53
Danimal

I stole this from another site, but I think that I am getting an idea of what needs to be done. Looks pretty easy.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/...ps73493ccf.jpg
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/...ps73f12528.jpg

Compare that to the narrowing work that ADCO did on my bolt:
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/...904_163403.jpg
09-25-2013, 08:54
Lurch

Come to think of it mine had some clearance issues in that same spot. I just ground down the mag a little and all was good.
09-25-2013, 23:31
Danimal

A couple pics that I snapped this afternoon.

Thanks hoser for the bolt!

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps06350b5d.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps64a3ccf2.jpg
09-25-2013, 23:35
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch

Come to think of it mine had some clearance issues in that same spot. I just ground down the mag a little and all was good.

You have one with glock mags? I am a little worried that filing the mag might increase the possibility of double feed. I guess that I will just have to take a loot and see how everything goes together and see how much material really needs to be removed. If you could post a couple pics that would be great.
09-26-2013, 08:23
Lurch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal

You have one with glock mags? I am a little worried that filing the mag might increase the possibility of double feed. I guess that I will just have to take a loot and see how everything goes together and see how much material really needs to be removed. If you could post a couple pics that would be great.

Mine uses a magwell and Uzi mags. Those mags have a bunch of material on top so I wasn't too worried, plus it was minimal. I just got a Colt 2 piece magwell and I have a little bit of adjustment with it so its not longer a issue. The one problem I had was stovepiping but after adjusting the extractor and putting a spacer in my buffer tube I think I have fixed that problem.
09-26-2013, 13:09
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch

Mine uses a magwell and Uzi mags. Those mags have a bunch of material on top so I wasn't too worried, plus it was minimal. I just got a Colt 2 piece magwell and I have a little bit of adjustment with it so its not longer a issue. The one problem I had was stovepiping but after adjusting the extractor and putting a spacer in my buffer tube I think I have fixed that problem.

I cant wait to play around with this and see how reliable I can make it. What buffer do you use? I have a stock cheepo in there now, but I was reading that I might want a heavy buffer? All the information out there is a little sketchy at best and it seems like different companies have different solutions to the different problems but I can not tell what is going to work for this setup. I guess I will just have to get out and shoot it a whole bunch...
09-26-2013, 17:30
Lurch

I was using an el cheapo and destroyed it. I just picked up a RRA one but haven't made it out. Also another thing to look at is how far the bolt goes back. You don't want it going back much farther then the bolt hold open catch. Quarters make a great spacer I use abot $1.75 in a carbine.
09-27-2013, 21:18
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch

I was using an el cheapo and destroyed it. I just picked up a RRA one but haven't made it out. Also another thing to look at is how far the bolt goes back. You don't want it going back much farther then the bolt hold open catch. Quarters make a great spacer I use abot $1.75 in a carbine.

I am glad that you told me that, because I had not even considered what that could do. My lower has a bolt hold open on empty, so I imaging that would be smashed up if it is run like that for very long. I will get one of those ordered stat.
09-27-2013, 21:24
Danimal

For future reference here is the bolt now that I am done grinding in the Glock mag relief and ramp on the back of the bolt. I removed as little material as I could to get it to function with all the mags that I have without hitting them. I tried to get a shot from as many angles as I could to give anyone else considering this a good view. I want to get out and run a couple mags through it tomorrow!

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps2487022c.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps081e8953.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9afae7f9.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...psb243cf7d.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7f94b4ea.jpg
09-28-2013, 13:52
Danimal

So I have been playing around with buffers today and I wanted to make a heavy buffer to smooth out the recoil of the 9mm, then for now I am going to try and use the $1.75 spacer and see how that goes. I read a bunch of other threads about making your buffer a heavy buffer and it turns out you need something heavier than lead. First I tried to use lead shot, and the heaviest that I could make it filling it to the top was 3 oz. So then I decided to fill it up to the point where I would have 66% lead and one steel puck that is already in the buffer. 3.6 oz. Since I was shooting for 5.5 oz I topped it off with lead to the point that I am going to have to trim the plastic bumper when I re-install it. 4.1 oz total, 4.2 when I put everything on there. I was a little bummed, but I thought that I would post up the results here for others.

I think that I will eventually just buy a heavy buffer, and then use this one on a mid length gas system or something. I want to get out shooting today, but I cannot seem to find a place to shoot. Everywhere I normally go has been washed away completely. Bummer.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps692940d8.jpg
10-22-2013, 08:25
Danimal

I finally made the drive out to the grasslands and ran a few mags through. I had zero FTF or FTE and the bolt hold open functioned flawlessly. I could not be happier. I ended up getting a CMMG 9mm buffer that weighs in at 5.8 oz and $2.00 in quarters. I was shooting 124gn round nose FMJ on top of 5 grains of Unique and I was putting 33 rounds in a 3" circle at 25 yards. I just used my plinking 9mm rounds for the test and the accuracy was great despite the fact that the ammo itself was never that great. I just built a bunch of it out of pulled bullets and just enough powder to get 1000 FPS and it really surprised me what the 10.5 inch barrel would do with it.

Thanks to everyone for all the help getting it up and running.
10-22-2013, 08:42
Lurch

Glad to hear it is up and running. I tried to pick up a 4.5" barrel for mine but the guy wouldn't sell it to me since I lived in CO. I told him there was no law against barrels and he said he had trouble with people in CO being a-holes. By the time I got a hold of a out of state friend the auction was over and haven't seen them since.
10-22-2013, 09:25
ThunderSquirrel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch

Glad to hear it is up and running. I tried to pick up a 4.5" barrel for mine but the guy wouldn't sell it to me since I lived in CO. I told him there was no law against barrels and he said he had trouble with people in CO being a-holes. By the time I got a hold of a out of state friend the auction was over and haven't seen them since.

Go with ADCO for a 9mm barrel. Great barrels and Great customer service. They have all kinds of lengths to chose from.
10-25-2013, 09:16
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSquirrel

Go with ADCO for a 9mm barrel. Great barrels and Great customer service. They have all kinds of lengths to chose from.

That is good to know. I am thinking of jumping on a suppressor one of these days and I want to go shorter than 10.5" before that happens. I will have to shop around a little.
03-22-2014, 17:45
TriggerHappy

Bumping this back from the dead, any of you with the Glock DDLES lower have any issues? still like it? Thoughts?
03-31-2014, 18:58
sportbikeco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal

That is good to know. I am thinking of jumping on a suppressor one of these days and I want to go shorter than 10.5" before that happens. I will have to shop around a little.

I have one of these 7" barrels. Price was right, and comes with a flash hider. Accurate as hell for me, I run it with a cmmg lower and bolt.

http://fatboytactical.net/cart/index...roducts_id=502
03-31-2014, 20:56
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerHappy

Bumping this back from the dead, any of you with the Glock DDLES lower have any issues? still like it? Thoughts?

Honestly I am impressed as hell with mine. It has had zero and I mean zero FTF, FTE with about 1000 rounds through it. The glock mags fit secure and the whole system is really really tight. I would recommend it 100%. The wait to get one was a little ridiculous, but other than that they are top notch.
03-31-2014, 20:58
Danimal

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportbikeco

I have on of these 7" barrels. Price was right, and comes with a flash hider. Accurate as hell for me, I run it with a cmmg lower and bolt.

http://fatboytactical.net/cart/index...roducts_id=502

Funny, I just got one of those about a month ago from JSE and I cant wait to get out and give it a try. I think that I paid $105 shipped when I bought mine and that is the cheapest I have ever paid for a barrel, but the quality looks really good. I hope the accuracy stands up to my 10.5 barrel which is an absolute tack driver as far as 9mm is concerned.

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