And Thus Begins the Wait...

[NFATrustGuy]

That's a bummer. I can't keep track of everyone's screen names. Are you one of my clients?

Did you send in a copy of the Trust itself. If it's one I did, this would have 6 pages.

Did you send in a copy of the original Schedule A. If it's one of mine, it would have an XX Dollar Bill listed with a serial number.

There are no other attachments mentioned in my form of Trust. If you sent a full copy of the Trust, a Declaration of Trust is not necessary. A Declaration of Trust is just a summary of the Trust--sort of like a Cliff's Notes version of a book. If you've got the whole book and the whole book is only 6 pages, then why would anyone need a separate summary? You'd sometimes give a Declaration of Trust to a Bank when you're opening up a new account because you can hold back some personal information from them. I would think that the ATF would want/prefer full disclosure.

Even if you're not a client of mine, please feel free to contact me and I'll be happy to help. If nothing else, this will impact my clients and I want to provide a perfect Trust package so that it's accepted the first time around with the ATF.

Rod

rodney **at** woodardlaw **dot** com

[SAnd]

to Mr. NFATRUSTGUY and HoneyBadger,

Holy Cow, I hate to question a lawyer about legal stuff but here goes.

On my trust the full document of 6 pages is titled "Declaration of Trust". The short, cliff notes version is referred to as a "Certification of Trust". The ATF accepted a "Certification of Trust" for my first NFA item (a Form 4). The next Form I submitted they returned and said they required the full 6 page "Declaration of Trust". I think that the ATF calls the full Trust document a "Declaration of Trust", whether that is the correct term or not.

Congratulations HoneyBadger! Your Form 1 is approved except for the Trust. All they need is a copy of the Trust and Attachment and your Form is done.

You need to send a copy of the long version, full text of the Trust and the Attachment. You may not have received a short version of the Trust.

The "Attachment" that they want is the inventory list. My list is referred to as "Schedule A". My understanding is that there needs to be something in the trust to make it officially alive.

Just stuff everything the ATF sent you and a copy of the Trust and inventory Attachment into an envelope and send it back to them.

The good news is you go to the front of the line. Whenever I had to do this it only took mail travel time and 2 or 3 days. I have heard it is taking a little longer currently. It will not take another six months.

Hang in there. It won't be long now.

[NFATrustGuy]

@ SAnd:

Never hesitate to question a lawyer. As much as some of us to pretend to be otherwise, we're certainly not infallible.

I think you are absolutely correct.

I responded to HoneyBadger's post as if the ATF were asking for a Certification of Trust--which is the shortened version. I then went on in my post and continued to use the wrong term to describe the shortened version.

I should have read his question more carefully so as not to induce further confusion.

I've been telling my clients that they do not need a Certification of Trust. Just send in the actual Trust itself which is formally called (as you correctly state) a Declaration of Trust.

I'm sorry for the confusion and thank you for pointing out my mistake. My offer stands to help Honey Badger if he needs it-- even if he's not my client.

Rod

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks for the help guys!

Rod, you did indeed put together my trust for me. I have no complaints about your work, but maybe I should have done more research before sending in my form 1! It would have been helpful if I had known that I needed to send in a copy of the trust... I wouldn't be surprised if you had instructed me to do this in our correspondence and I somehow missed it.

Anyway, Thanks for the help. I'll get it in the mail right now and hopefully I'll have a much happier post to wrap up this thread in a week or two!

[RCCrawler]

I got my SBR form 1 returned to me.

I got my form 1 returned to me yesterday as well. The reason mine was returned was because I printed the application off on my computer and instead of printing the 2 pages front to back I printed it on 2 separate pages. 2 seconds on the copier and I'm sending it back today. My god these people are picky.

[HoneyBadger]

I got my form 1 returned to me yesterday as well. The reason mine was returned was because I printed the application off on my computer and instead of printing the 2 pages front to back I printed it on 2 separate pages. 2 seconds on the copier and I'm sending it back today. My god these people are picky.

Sorry dude.. The idiocracy in bureaucracy is astounding.

At least we both know we'll have our stamps soon!

[RCCrawler]

At least we both know we'll have our stamps soon!

Yea, as soon as I get mine I'll finally be able to run over to Bert and he can break out his hacksaw and chop the barrel!

[brutal]

to Mr. NFATRUSTGUY and HoneyBadger,

Holy Cow, I hate to question a lawyer about legal stuff but here goes.

On my trust the full document of 6 pages is titled "Declaration of Trust". The short, cliff notes version is referred to as a "Certification of Trust". The ATF accepted a "Certification of Trust" for my first NFA item (a Form 4). The next Form I submitted they returned and said they required the full 6 page "Declaration of Trust". I think that the ATF calls the full Trust document a "Declaration of Trust", whether that is the correct term or not.

Congratulations HoneyBadger! Your Form 1 is approved except for the Trust. All they need is a copy of the Trust and Attachment and your Form is done.

You need to send a copy of the long version, full text of the Trust and the Attachment. You may not have received a short version of the Trust.

The "Attachment" that they want is the inventory list. My list is referred to as "Schedule A". My understanding is that there needs to be something in the trust to make it officially alive.

Just stuff everything the ATF sent you and a copy of the Trust and inventory Attachment into an envelope and send it back to them.

The good news is you go to the front of the line. Whenever I had to do this it only took mail travel time and 2 or 3 days. I have heard it is taking a little longer currently. It will not take another six months.

Hang in there. It won't be long now.

@ SAnd:

Never hesitate to question a lawyer. As much as some of us to pretend to be otherwise, we're certainly not infallible.

I think you are absolutely correct.

I responded to HoneyBadger's post as if the ATF were asking for a Certification of Trust--which is the shortened version. I then went on in my post and continued to use the wrong term to describe the shortened version.

I should have read his question more carefully so as not to induce further confusion.

I've been telling my clients that they do not need a Certification of Trust. Just send in the actual Trust itself which is formally called (as you correctly state) a Declaration of Trust.

I'm sorry for the confusion and thank you for pointing out my mistake. My offer stands to help Honey Badger if he needs it-- even if he's not my client.

Rod

Please clarify if you're talking about the "Initial Trust Funding Schedule A" (the one with the first Trust item) or the "inventory" - aka ""Revised Schedule A, trust assets?"

Why would anyone send them the entire Revised Schedule A?

[brutal]

Yea, as soon as I get mine I'll finally be able to run over to Bert and he can break out his hacksaw and chop the barrel!

He uses a sawzall

[ChrisC]

I have a Form 1 pending on an SBS and once that is approved it is heading over to Bert's sawzall as well