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its illegal to have someone mail your property to you that you legally owned before hand? its illegal to bring property back with you that you legally owned before hand? where is the illegal act? thats the question. don't have to be such a dick jesus.Originally Posted by spqrzilla
It's not your responsibility to prove anything, it's the prosecutions responsibility.
Lessons cost money. Good ones cost lots. -Tony Beets
Well, YES you are right from a legal perspective...and NO you are not right from a practical perspective.
Please allow me to explain where I'm going with this...
The law CRS -18-12-302(2)(b) DOES say that "IF A PERSON WHO IS ALLEGED TO HAVE VIOLATED SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION ASSERTS THAT HE OR SHE IS PERMITTED TO LEGALLY POSSESS A LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH (a)OF THIS SUBSECTION (2), THE PROSECUTION HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REFUTE THE ASSERTION".
So if and when it goes to court, you are correct.
At the scene, it is not likely that the arresting officer will take kindly to your "Prove it, bud." They are NOT the prosecution and don't have to prove anything to arrest you...they just need probably cause and will let the courts decide if they arrest was valid or not.
However, by that time you've probably spent a bunch of money, MAY have been arrested, and MAY have had your weapons confiscated, as well, for "evidence". This could be similar to the practice Denver has used when finding >21 round mags prior to this goofy law. However in Denver, it has been common practice to plea bargain "You give up your mags and weapons, and we'll let you off with no charges and no need for litigation in court."
Weighing the cost of surrendering some mags and guns vs. the cost of an attorney to defend you, the former is often FAR cheaper than the latter.
On the other hand, if you can supply some sort of proof of ownership and AVOID arrest and even getting that far, you MAY be able to nip the incident in the bud and same a LOT of time and cash, as well as preventing your mags/weapons from being confiscated. (This is the practical "and NO" part I was referring to.)
The problem is that it is nearly impossible to prove ownership of a "specific" mag prior to 01JUL13. You may have a receipt for 10 mags dated 01MAY13, but have no practical way to prove the mags in your possession are the same mags listed on the receipt. The mags are not unique (i.e. they don't have a serial number on them you can match to a serial number on the receipt). You could have just as easily taken your 01MAY13 receipt with you to Wyoming, picked up 10 new mags, and claim they are the ones purchased on 01MAY13. No one can easily tell the difference between the contraband mags on the legal mags.
On the positive side, it will be just as difficult for the prosecution to prove that the mags you have ARE NOT the ones from the receipt. In fact, as you (KIDICARUS13) said, from a legal perspective, it would be up to the prosecution to prove it.
However, if it were me, I'd really try hard to prove legal ownership (even though nothing in the law says I have to) when questioned by the officer, to try and avoid arrest, confiscation of weapons, and costly litigation, from a practical perspective.
NOTE: This post is my opinion and is not to be construed as legal advice.
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Last edited by james_bond_007; 06-26-2013 at 13:53.
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The fattest knight at King Arthur’s round table was Sir Cumference. He acquired his size from too much π.
TROT: I appreciate your comments.
I must agree with you that the DA won't have much to go on and MAY not bring it to trial, but it would be the arresting officer that says "I think he is suspicious"...the DA then decides if it goes farther.
...then there's the rookie Jr DAs that get the case and want to prove how good they are to their superiors and just drag things out and make them "expensive" for you. It may never make it to trial, but it and your lawyer bill drags on until it is dismissed...$$$ cha-ching $$$
And as I pointed out, the receipt could actually be valid...but there is no way to prove the possessed mags DO or DO NOT correspond to the receipt. So the receipt thing is VERY weak, for both you AND the DA.
But it seems I still might try it anyway, to prevent things from getting on the docket, and "try" to convince the officer to NOT arrest me.
Optimum word is "try". If I succeed, I'm far better off.
If the attempt fails, I'm right where you describe, and will suffer some damage (arrest/lawyer cost/confiscation), but I (as you pointed out) also don't see enough evidence for a successful prosecution. (Unless you do something stupid like post pictures of yourself on FACEBOOK buying mags at the Cheyenne Cabella's )
Analogy:
We've all tried to talk our way out of a speeding (or other) ticket...sometimes successful, sometimes not...sometimes we even get off with a warning.
I see this as an attempt to do the same thing...
I do like your position of "I don't have to answer any questions" and the other poster's "I do not consent to a search of my car."
Less info volunteered (including the receipt I proposed) is often a legally safer route.
The law has so many holes....let's hope the sheriffs are successful at gettng it addressed for us
Last edited by james_bond_007; 06-26-2013 at 15:39.
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The fattest knight at King Arthur’s round table was Sir Cumference. He acquired his size from too much π.
Your first mistake is publicly inquiring if what you want to do is legal or not. Your second one is not consulting with an attorney.
All my paperwork was lost in the tornado 5 years ago.
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"when you're happy you enjoy the melody but, when you're broken you understand the lyrics".
So whats happening with the lawsuit filed by the 50 + Colorado Sherrifs against the State on the gun law? I know it's mentioned in another post but, wont that have some impact on inforcement of the magazine 'ban'? The State had 30 days and I haven't heard a peep.
There was an injunction granted by the Judge based on the lawsuit, but the lawsuit is still pending. However several on here say that the Judges order, nor the AGs memo, which is specifically included in the injunction, has the weight of law. If you read the court records, you can understand what is and is not being enforced and the status. Heck even the guys on ARFcom were able to make sense of it correctly.
Your description of how you've had your magazines kept does not appear to match even the Attorney General's "guidance" - which we've been discussing - on the meaning of continuous possession, that's the point.
Last edited by spqrzilla; 06-26-2013 at 18:08.
Sayonara
If you are referring to my comments, you did not correctly paraphrase them.
Sayonara
so if a soldier is out of state or better yet out of country on business (war) for several months, he can no longer possess magazines? what if he lives in a different state now and gets transferred to colorado? not much different than my situation except i don't work for the government.
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