DOMA/Prop 8 decisions

[davsel]

There are plenty of guys I know in the military who unfortunately have mental issues (PTSD, TBI) who still have their clearance. Straight people are just as easily blackmailed because for other reasons; I knew a few guys who lost their clearance because of extramarital affairs.

So are you saying combat vets shouldn't get a clearance either?

Really? That's what you got from my post?
Try reading it again and not trying to put words in my mouth.

[asmo]

When I was interviewed for my first clearance in '87, there were more questions about homosexuality than anything else.

Back then there was more of a stigma associated with homosexuality and so it was easier to be blackmailed because of it. I know many GLBT people with clearances - both CI and FS. Even back then they didn't care if you were gay/lesbian so as long as you were totally out of the closet and open about it -- if you are open about it you cant be blackmailed because of it. I seem to remember sitting in a meeting in NoVA w/ a man named "Kathy" -- way back in 1992.

They are statistically less mentally stable, and more easily coerced/blackmailed than normal people.

Utter and complete bullshit in every possible way. You are a truly ignorant fool if you believe that. I dare you to find a peer-reviewed journal article that can back up that claim.

[davsel]

Utter and complete bullshit in every possible way. You are a truly ignorant fool if you believe that. I dare you to find a peer-reviewed journal article that can back up that claim.

Dare Accepted:

From:http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx

Population-based studies
Several large population-based public health studies are discussed in the November American Psychologist (Vol. 56, No. 11) by Susan Cochran, PhD, an epidemiologist in the University of California, Los Angeles School of Public Health, who authored or co-authored many of the studies. Specifically, the studies find:

• Higher rates of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and substance use or dependence in lesbian and gay youth.
  
• Higher rates of recurrent major depression among gay men.
  
• Higher rates of anxiety, mood and substance use disorders, and suicidal thoughts among people ages 15 to 54 with same-sex partners.
  
• Higher use of mental health services in men and women reporting same-sex partners.

Gleaning this type of information on LGB people has never been possible in general surveys before, Cochran notes. However, because the surveys on which these studies are based examine HIV-risk factors, including psychiatric problems and sexual behavior, they include questions on sexual orientation and sexual partners, she says.
"It's a breakthrough because it has traditionally been difficult to gather large samples of gays, lesbians and bisexuals due to their small numbers in the population," Cochran explains.
The data contradict previous findings that there are no significant differences in the mental health of heterosexuals and LGB people, adds Cochran, who notes she is concerned that these findings may give ammunition to people who want to falsely promulgate the argument that gay people are by nature mentally ill.
For one thing, she says, "these are certainly not levels of morbidity consistent with models that say homosexuality is inherently pathological." For another, the data simply don't prove either pro- or anti-gay arguments on the subject, whether it's that the inherent biology of homosexuality causes mental illness or that social stigma provokes mental illness in LGB people, she says.
Cochran believes the studies demonstrate the need for better psychological treatment for LGB people--an observation consistent with the U.S. Surgeon General's recommendations in his report on sexuality and health, she observes.

[Ronin13]

Dare Accepted:

From:http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx

Population-based studies
Several large population-based public health studies are discussed in the November American Psychologist (Vol. 56, No. 11) by Susan Cochran, PhD, an epidemiologist in the University of California, Los Angeles School of Public Health, who authored or co-authored many of the studies. Specifically, the studies find:

• Higher rates of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and substance use or dependence in lesbian and gay youth.
  
• Higher rates of recurrent major depression among gay men.
  
• Higher rates of anxiety, mood and substance use disorders, and suicidal thoughts among people ages 15 to 54 with same-sex partners.
  
• Higher use of mental health services in men and women reporting same-sex partners.

Gleaning this type of information on LGB people has never been possible in general surveys before, Cochran notes. However, because the surveys on which these studies are based examine HIV-risk factors, including psychiatric problems and sexual behavior, they include questions on sexual orientation and sexual partners, she says.
"It's a breakthrough because it has traditionally been difficult to gather large samples of gays, lesbians and bisexuals due to their small numbers in the population," Cochran explains.
The data contradict previous findings that there are no significant differences in the mental health of heterosexuals and LGB people, adds Cochran, who notes she is concerned that these findings may give ammunition to people who want to falsely promulgate the argument that gay people are by nature mentally ill.
For one thing, she says, "these are certainly not levels of morbidity consistent with models that say homosexuality is inherently pathological." For another, the data simply don't prove either pro- or anti-gay arguments on the subject, whether it's that the inherent biology of homosexuality causes mental illness or that social stigma provokes mental illness in LGB people, she says.
Cochran believes the studies demonstrate the need for better psychological treatment for LGB people--an observation consistent with the U.S. Surgeon General's recommendations in his report on sexuality and health, she observes.

I can concur with the legitimacy of this- my dad's golf buddy is a psychologist who deals with a lot of LGBT folks, especially TS/TG/TV and he says they are much more likely to be depressed, suicidal, and have issues integrating into society post-op/post change. 20+ years experience counseling and he says that mental illness is a greater issue affecting LGBT than straight people... and it's kind of sad, mostly due to the unwillingness of society to accept them normally.

[Madeinhb]

Dare Accepted:

From:http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx

• Higher rates of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and substance use or dependence in lesbian and gay youth.
  
• Higher rates of recurrent major depression among gay men.
  
• Higher rates of anxiety, mood and substance use disorders, and suicidal thoughts among people ages 15 to 54 with same-sex partners.
  
• Higher use of mental health services in men and women reporting same-sex partners.

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Really? So you can't think and just believe what you read. Depression? Could they be depressed about how they are treated, etc. Depression comes various things. Suicide? Could that be because people don't accept them? The same reason any kid 15-whatever age would kill them self. So straight people who commit suicide are of sound mind? Sorry nothing listed can attribute to gays. And by the way, here is a quote from the APA in Oct 2012.

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

[Madeinhb]

I can concur with the legitimacy of this- my dad's golf buddy is a psychologist who deals with a lot of LGBT folks, especially TS/TG/TV and he says they are much more likely to be depressed, suicidal, and have issues integrating into society post-op/post change. 20+ years experience counseling and he says that mental illness is a greater issue affecting LGBT than straight people... and it's kind of sad, mostly due to the unwillingness of society to accept them normally.

Right - but what's the reasoning to it? The have a disorder or is this caused because people don't accept them and treat them as outcasts.

If a teenager is treated the same way, those teenagers can be depressed, etc. do they have a mental disorder?

[Rucker61]

Right - but what's the reasoning to it? The have a disorder or is this caused because people don't accept them and treat them as outcasts.

If a teenager is treated the same way, those teenagers can be depressed, etc. do they have a mental disorder?

They are still teenagers, so yes.

[Madeinhb]

They are still teenagers, so yes.

This is ignorant. Teenagers don't have a mental disorder then they hit 20 and its gone.

[asmo]

Dare Accepted:

From:http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb02/newdata.aspx

Population-based studies
Several large population-based public health studies are discussed in the November American Psychologist (Vol. 56, No. 11) by Susan Cochran, PhD, an epidemiologist in the University of California, Los Angeles School of Public Health, who authored or co-authored many of the studies. Specifically, the studies find:

• Higher rates of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and substance use or dependence in lesbian and gay youth.
  
• Higher rates of recurrent major depression among gay men.
  
• Higher rates of anxiety, mood and substance use disorders, and suicidal thoughts among people ages 15 to 54 with same-sex partners.
  
• Higher use of mental health services in men and women reporting same-sex partners.

Gleaning this type of information on LGB people has never been possible in general surveys before, Cochran notes. However, because the surveys on which these studies are based examine HIV-risk factors, including psychiatric problems and sexual behavior, they include questions on sexual orientation and sexual partners, she says.
"It's a breakthrough because it has traditionally been difficult to gather large samples of gays, lesbians and bisexuals due to their small numbers in the population," Cochran explains.
The data contradict previous findings that there are no significant differences in the mental health of heterosexuals and LGB people, adds Cochran, who notes she is concerned that these findings may give ammunition to people who want to falsely promulgate the argument that gay people are by nature mentally ill.
For one thing, she says, "these are certainly not levels of morbidity consistent with models that say homosexuality is inherently pathological." For another, the data simply don't prove either pro- or anti-gay arguments on the subject, whether it's that the inherent biology of homosexuality causes mental illness or that social stigma provokes mental illness in LGB people, she says.
Cochran believes the studies demonstrate the need for better psychological treatment for LGB people--an observation consistent with the U.S. Surgeon General's recommendations in his report on sexuality and health, she observes.

You actually need to read many of her articles -- including the rest of the one you cited:

Susan Cochran [PhD] and psychologist Vickie M. Mays, PhD, of the University of California, Los Angeles, explored whether ongoing discrimination fuels anxiety, depression and other stress-related mental health problems among LGB people. The authors found strong evidence of a relationship between the two

Like I intimated.. The more people accept it - and the more they are out - the less of a problem.

[Ronin13]

Right - but what's the reasoning to it? The have a disorder or is this caused because people don't accept them and treat them as outcasts.

Read the last sentence... he says it's an issue with acceptance, either by societal standards or being ostracized by their family. Either way, the correlations are undeniable. I forsee, in terms of the military- because been there, done that, served with gays, both male and female- this is something that won't end suddenly just because DADT is repealed, it will take years, especially with the machismo mentality of the military. It's perhaps 10x more of a hostile environment for gays than the rest of society...