Background checks and trading

[Marine24]

Process is no doubt confusing, even for the local FFL. The ones I typically use believes they need to take possession of the firearm, log it in to their books with both seller and buyer present. They will charge the $10 CBI fee plus an additional fee, like they would for an out of state transfer. The latter would run as much as $50. If the buyer fails, they would have to run an additional BGC on the seller to release the firearm to them. If the seller fails the BGC, they would hold the weapon until either the buyer or the seller cleared up what ever caused them to fail the BGC. They didn't say what they would do if neither could pass.

Not sure if they are aware of the net ATF guidelines posted above, but right or wrong, this is the process they believe is appropriate given the new laws. Good time to feed my knife fetish until the dust settles on this one, while supporting the Sheriff's suit to get it thrown out.

[brutal]

OK,

I think that clears up FFL transfer.

Now what about repairs not sent to the MFR?

If I have to hand off a lower/frame for repair or finishing, is that a transfer?

Not an issue for the current slide finishing work I'm having done - the guy is SOT or I could have just handed over the slide part, but what about all these other part time handlers that do not have an FFL?

[SA Friday]

OK,

I think that clears up FFL transfer.

Now what about repairs not sent to the MFR?

If I have to hand off a lower/frame for repair or finishing, is that a transfer?

Not an issue for the current slide finishing work I'm having done - he guy is SOT or I could have just handed over the frame part, but what about all these other part time handlers that do not have an FFL?

Ah, a BP inquiry if I've ever seen one.

[brutal]

Ah, a BP inquiry if I've ever seen one.

"slide part" I caught my error...

[UnoTaco]

Process is no doubt confusing, even for the local FFL. The ones I typically use believes they need to take possession of the firearm, log it in to their books with both seller and buyer present. They will charge the $10 CBI fee plus an additional fee, like they would for an out of state transfer. The latter would run as much as $50. If the buyer fails, they would have to run an additional BGC on the seller to release the firearm to them. If the seller fails the BGC, they would hold the weapon until either the buyer or the seller cleared up what ever caused them to fail the BGC. They didn't say what they would do if neither could pass.

Not sure if they are aware of the net ATF guidelines posted above, but right or wrong, this is the process they believe is appropriate given the new laws. Good time to feed my knife fetish until the dust settles on this one, while supporting the Sheriff's suit to get it thrown out.

Okay, so I think I should pick at this just a tad more. Here's a scenario I've been thinking about. I, the seller, sell you a rifle private party. We meet at the FFL and you go over the rifle and agree to purchase. You pay me cash and I write you a receipt. I hand the rifle to the FFL and sign the papers to release it from my possession. I've got my cash, sale is done, and I leave. You sign the BGC paperwork. Turns out you had a crazy ex who put a restraining order on you without your knowledge. You now cannot hold in your possession the rifle you just bought. You call me up all frantic and I say, "sale is final, no refunds." What now? The FFL doesn't want to hold the weapon for long but you can't pick it up.

[ChadAmberg]

Okay, so I think I should pick at this just a tad more. Here's a scenario I've been thinking about. I, the seller, sell you a rifle private party. We meet at the FFL and you go over the rifle and agree to purchase. You pay me cash and I write you a receipt. I hand the rifle to the FFL and sign the papers to release it from my possession. I've got my cash, sale is done, and I leave. You sign the BGC paperwork. Turns out you had a crazy ex who put a restraining order on you without your knowledge. You now cannot hold in your possession the rifle you just bought. You call me up all frantic and I say, "sale is final, no refunds." What now? The FFL doesn't want to hold the weapon for long but you can't pick it up.

Possession and ownership are two different things.

First off, it's unlikely you'll find an FFL that will let you proceed in this scenario, right now it seems unlikely you'll find any FFLs willing to do private sales at all.

But if you do, it's simple. The buyer OWNS the firearm. He just cannot POSSESS it. He's more than welcome to pay the FFL a storage fee while he finds a buyer himself, or let the FFL put it up on consignment. He can do whatever he wants with the gun, just not take possession of it.

[BlasterBob]

Okay, so I think I should pick at this just a tad more. Here's a scenario I've been thinking about. I, the seller, sell you a rifle private party. We meet at the FFL and you go over the rifle and agree to purchase. You pay me cash and I write you a receipt. I hand the rifle to the FFL and sign the papers to release it from my possession. I've got my cash, sale is done, and I leave. You sign the BGC paperwork. Turns out you had a crazy ex who put a restraining order on you without your knowledge. You now cannot hold in your possession the rifle you just bought. You call me up all frantic and I say, "sale is final, no refunds." What now? The FFL doesn't want to hold the weapon for long but you can't pick it up.

I'd say just be a "big boy" about it and return his money LESS the full amount the FFL is going to charge you to get your rifle returned back to you IF the FFL has already entered the rifle info into his A&D book. If that won't work because YOU can't also pass the BGC to get your own rifle back, ask the FFL to put your rifle on consignment. I believe that according to the brand new ATF guidelines for the person to person (via FFL) transfers, the BGC can be executed prior to the firearm actually entered in A&D book. If the BGC is given the OK and the transfer is made, then normally the FFL will enter the required info into his BB within the prescribed time period. This is just how I interpret this unusual scenario but it's only a guess on my part.........
Before you violently disagree, check out the NEW ATF guidelines for such a scenario.

[james_bond_007]

Okay, so I think I should pick at this just a tad more. Here's a scenario I've been thinking about. I, the seller, sell you a rifle private party. We meet at the FFL and you go over the rifle and agree to purchase. You pay me cash and I write you a receipt. I hand the rifle to the FFL and sign the papers to release it from my possession. I've got my cash, sale is done, and I leave. You sign the BGC paperwork. Turns out you had a crazy ex who put a restraining order on you without your knowledge. You now cannot hold in your possession the rifle you just bought. You call me up all frantic and I say, "sale is final, no refunds." What now? The FFL doesn't want to hold the weapon for long but you can't pick it up.

Reminds me a lot of the Rich Wyatt/Gunsmoke issue that was on the Tom Martino talk show.
Rich made a lady BUY a gun before he ran a BGC.
She failed due to some unexpected reason, as you mention.
Only he would not refund her money (wrong) or give her the gun (right).
He wanted to sell it on consignment for her .
...more to the story , but in general, it went down similar to your story and CHADAMBERG'S comments.
So not as hypothetical as one might think...

[Brian]

Reminds me a lot of the Rich Wyatt/Gunsmoke issue that was on the Tom Martino talk show.
Rich made a lady BUY a gun before he ran a BGC.
She failed due to some unexpected reason, as you mention.
Only he would not refund her money (wrong) or give her the gun (right).
He wanted to sell it on consignment for her .
...more to the story , but in general, it went down similar to your story and CHADAMBERG'S comments.
So not as hypothetical as one might think...

A lot of FFLs do it that way. And as far as I know, there is no reason they can't choose to do business like that. But it's a business choice, not an ATF process/mandate.