What's your thoughts on this?

[flogger]

Good subject for debate. I can see the professional historical passion to carry on with some insignia types but there are times to step away from the controversial 'relations' with some organizations, rather they were intended or not. AND, I think if I were a professional, I wouldn't brag about it with questionable stickers and patches, if any.

[Aloha_Shooter]

If the article James Bond quoted is correct, the "history" behind use of these insignia in the USMC and USA is actually fairly recent. All the more reason to stamp their use out now before it gets even more ingrained. One thing that always concerned me about the recent profusion of challenge coins was that they were a symptom of adopting a braggart culture. It's one thing to verify someone has "been there, done that" when they speak ... it's a whole other thing to display a big board or case that virtually screams, "look at what I've done" or "look who I belong to."

[Mick-Boy]

I think the "blood boiling" reaction is a little extreme and you're reading a lot more into the HOG title than is there.

I have no dog in this fight since I was never an 8541/0312 but I'll add a couple of thoughts.

First, RonMexico is spot on about the use of the SS runes in the sniper community and the HOG and PIG terminology.

Regarding the racist overtones of the runes - I had an instructor at MCWIS with the runes branded on his left ribcage. He was a SSGT that had served as an instructor at the Sniper School prior to working as an instructor trainer for the MCWIS program. He was also black.

One of the guys I work with now was a Sniper in my unit (2/2) in Iraq in '04 and has the runes and a scope reticle tattooed on his back. His Dad is black.

Make of that what you will but I don't think these guys are just covering their involvement in the white supremacist movement.

If you find a symbol "offensive" don't get it tattooed, branded, etc. on your body. Don't wear a shirt with the logo or put a sticker with it on your vehicle. But don't get all huffy about other people doing those things. It might not mean the same thing to them as it does to you.

Scout Sniper school is considered on of the three hardest schools in the Marine Corps. Guys who go through it are generally proud of their accomplishment, even two decades later.

[Mick-Boy]

"Quiet professional" is becoming less and less prevalent these days...

Dude, the guy was in over 20 years ago. You honestly mean to tell me you don't have any Ranger shirts/hats/stickers? C'mon...

[275RLTW]

Dude, the guy was in over 20 years ago. You honestly mean to tell me you don't have any Ranger shirts/hats/stickers? C'mon...

Touche. I stopped telling "hogging" stories though... (different hog meaning for those who don't know)

[Mick-Boy]

Some guys have no shame...

[Danimal]

If it bothers you approaching the situation is not disrespectful if you do it right. I think the best thing to do in this kind of situation is to develop a well researched set of facts surrounding the actual meaning and purpose of the original symbol using as many historical and reliable references as you can. Then write out a respectful PM to the guy with that information, but also give him an avenue to tell you what it means to him should he decide to. Things like this develop and change over time and are adapted for different meanings. I was very surprised to see swastikas carved into ancient statues of Buddha while I was in China, and was even used for post WWII (1976) construction of the Tian Tan Buddha. To them is still means luck or good fortune and is widely used by billions of people there.

The symbols were re-appropriated by the Nazi's and everyone in European and western culture will forever tie those symbols to them. If they are being used now by some marines, I assume the middle eastern people will tie it to us in their culture going forward. If that previous post written by Gooch is accurate, then I believe that this needs to be passed around and people need to be informed because I doubt that anyone really wants neo-natzi origins describing their organization. I know that it probably has been passed down from class to class utilizing the true ancient meaning and vague history by people that really just cared more about being a sniper than a history buff. But this kind of misrepresentation (if that is what it is) could be pointed out in a respectful and informative manner, and in a way that is not accusatory of their intentions and taken use of the symbol.