Massad Ayoob: Terrorism in America, the Armed Citizen's View, interesting article

[Jer]

Ah a new member, from SA no less... Welcome.
My point of contention with your post is simple- what do you do when a threat disarms you, or puts you into a position where you are physically unable to draw your weapon? I'm a big advocate of training in all aspects of EDC, and one of those is self defense without a weapon. There are several disciplines that teach disarming techniques that can be easily attained for anyone with the desire to- I personally improve my current LE training with Krav Maga, but other mixed martial arts gyms teach various techniques that once you get the basics and fundamentals down are easy to continue learning and begin to introduce into muscle memory (as Foxtrot so eloquently put it). Until training becomes an instinctive reaction, keep going. And then when it is instinctive, keep training. Many things, like shooting, driving, and hand-to-hand are perishable skills.

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

[Gunservant]

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

Pretty much exactly what I was trying to infer.

[Ronin13]

Get MY gun from me? Good luck with all that. If the BG gets my gun from me then I probably froze & probably wouldn't be able to call up my hand to hand training either. You're now talking about a long shot within a long shot within a long shot that you're training for. At some point your ROI for training is diminutive and I think that's what he's talking about. Sure he can budget his time to train for the 0.00000001% likelihood but it would take away from his training for the 0.00001% likelihood in his case.

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

[hurley842002]

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

Yes, a lot of training and being well rounded is ideal, however you seem to be speaking from the single with no children, expendable time and money camp. I used to spend lots of time at the gym, partake in Krav a couple times a week, and put rounds down range once a week. I'm married now, with two kids and no money, I'm happy getting to the gym for an hour 5 days a week. I guess life is about priorities.

[Jer]

Aside from you being Bruce Lee or Jason Borne, there are cases, while yes, you're correct they are rare, there are still cases of assailants using a victim's firearm against them. I'm not saying take away from good firearms training to train for a scenario that is unlikely to happen (unlikely does not mean impossible), but simply saying that to be well rounded in your training, why not utilize all tactics and incorporate them into your training regimen so you're better trained and more prepared for any scenario? Yes, I agree that it's a long shot, but what happens when that long shot happens and you're unable to meet the threat? It's that same line we've heard before: "I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

That's the point. I DO have a gun so I do NOT need to worry about training on how to disarm. My gun IS my method for disarming a threat & just about as effective as you can get with minimal margin for error especially at ranges you're talking about physically disarming someone. There's nobody on the face of this earth that would make me take pause if they had a gun & meant to do me harm with it. A threat is another paper target to me. I may have an emotional reaction but that will come after the fact. I don't make habit of presenting my firearm w/o using it in an effort to diffuse the situation. If it comes out it will be firing a string or rounds into the threat starting in a time that is impossible for the human brain to register let alone act on. That's my chosen method for disarming an assailant. I was in Tae Kwon Do long enough as a youth to know that it's a wonderful form of exercise, a good way to teach discipline and a great way to keep wayward youths out of trouble. That being said, in all my street fights as a youth I never got into my stance and summoned from my training. I reverted to street fighting which I was good at and it always worked. That's instinctual. I don't see martial arts as a viable solution in a gun fight. If you're just looking for something to do I will agree that this is as good a hobby as any. If you're talking about most people having to squeeze yet another thing into their day I'm not sure this is something that's worthy of the time invested for most people reading this.