9MM Over penatration.

[275RLTW]

Late to party- as usual.

It was already corrected, but to say it again... New 147gr defense ammo is NOT built for subguns. ColoCCW is working off of some VERY old data referencing the first 147gr bullets designed for increased accuracy out of some mp5 for SF folks. Testing on 147HST gives reliable expansion (best I've seen- anywhere in 9mm) and penetration of ~12" through FBI standard calibrated gel out of a 5" barrel.

According to the Hornady website as of today (current enough for you?), the 147gr has a KE at muzzle of 310 ft/lbs vs the 115gr at 341 ft/lbs. Thats a loss of approx 10% due to insufficient velocity from a 4" barrel. I don't know too many people who carry a 5" 9mm that you refer to in "testing." I won't get into the discussion of "ballistic gel testing/FBI Standard blah blah blah" and all the crap with that other than that phrase has lost almost all validity due to it not taking into all the other factors that affect terminal ballistics. A quick search can find thousands of discussions on 147gr in various barrel lengths., most agreeing that the heavier bullets should stay with sub guns.


As I stated before, pick a round that runs in your specific gun, from a well known manufacturer, and put holes in the threat until it stops. Trying to predict which round will do best for an unknown scenario is just guesswork. Anyone who says they have the "right answer" or perfect bullet is full of shit.

[hurley842002]

Using the Hornady website for defensive ammunition information, is like using DPMS, for a serious discussion on small arms for battle use. Neither are exactly big players in the discussions being had.

[DenverGP]

I see someone else posted the link to this vid, here it is embedded.

HST 147 grain out of a pocket 9 (3 inch barrel)


Amazing expansion, great penetration. Expansion is actually a little better than the 124gr HST that I'm currently carrying.

Look at some of the same guy's tests on some of the older self defense ammo, it's amazing to see the expansion difference compared to the new generation of ammo.

[rustycrusty]

ColoCCW... U mad bro?

I've made my point. You are wrong. 147gr- not just for subguns. Maybe best round for subguns like mp5 is a special developed load in 147gr but MANY companies now offer defense rounds for short barrels that offer very attractive test results and handling characteristics.

Not good when people chose to ignore and not talk about FBI gel tests or other quantitative methods of comparison... And instead talk about what others talk about...

I can find thousands of discussions on chemtrails being a real problem brainwashing all of us...

I can find thousands of discussions about birdshot as a viable and lethal defense solution... I'm not interested in these opinions because I have seen scientific methods prove this is a bad option compared to just about anything else.

If there is no evidence presented in someone's arguement and their only retort is to discredit evidence that exists... Maybe not a great person to listen to...


Everyone:

apologies for thread diversion.
I don't have the perfect carry round. I do know what I like and I can articulate why with more than 'because someone else uses it'.
careful not to step in the BS

[275RLTW]

ColoCCW... U mad bro?

I've made my point. You are wrong. 147gr- not just for subguns. Maybe best round for subguns like mp5 is a special developed load in 147gr but MANY companies now offer defense rounds for short barrels that offer very attractive test results and handling characteristics.

Not good when people chose to ignore and not talk about FBI gel tests or other quantitative methods of comparison... And instead talk about what others talk about...

I can find thousands of discussions on chemtrails being a real problem brainwashing all of us...

I can find thousands of discussions about birdshot as a viable and lethal defense solution... I'm not interested in these opinions because I have seen scientific methods prove this is a bad option compared to just about anything else.

If there is no evidence presented in someone's arguement and their only retort is to discredit evidence that exists... Maybe not a great person to listen to...


Everyone:

apologies for thread diversion.
I don't have the perfect carry round. I do know what I like and I can articulate why with more than 'because someone else uses it'.
careful not to step in the BS

Not mad one bit. FBI gel tests are not a good baseline for choosing a round. Not enough variables tested. This is plain to see. 147s do work in shorter barrels. However, basic physics show that that they do not work nearly as well bullets with higher Kinetic Energy such as 115 or 124 gr. 147s don't get enough muzzle velocity in handguns to compare to lighter weight and faster loads. This is also easily seen in ANY ammo manufacturer's ballistics chart. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm showing you the undisputed data from the source. You have not... Quantitative enough?

[sneakerd]

Concerned about overpenetration? Use Glaser Safety slugs for the top 6 rounds of your magload.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I was looking at some data on the new Gold Dot G2 and discussing this with a buddy today, specifically the 124 +P vs 147.
He likes the new G2 especially for recoil in a shorter barrel wheel gun, I like Doubletap or Hornady out of a G19, just by feel vs a 115 or 147. But it really does seems like the data is splitting hairs to me.

[cstone]

They all suck if you miss.

[hurley842002]

They all suck if you miss.

Agree, and heavy for caliber is typically milder recoiling, thus allowing for more accurate shots /thread lol

But seriously, just buy a premium defense round, in whatever weight you can shoot accurately, and afford to practice with, and call it a day.

I have been carrying 124 grain +p Gold Dots up until recently picking up a G27, now I'm carrying 180 grain HST.

[HoneyBadger]

But seriously, just buy a premium defense round, in whatever weight you can shoot accurately, and afford to practice with, and call it a day.

If I had a dollar for every time this type of thread ended like this.... I could probably afford a box of premium defense ammo!