Grand Jury Decides Not To Indict Cop In Eric Garner Chokehold Case

[flogger]

When non-tax stamped cigarettes are outlawed, only outlaws will have non-tax stamped cigarettes. I dont smoke but $13.00 for a pack of cigs is ridiculous. Over $6.00 tax per pack!! Seems like a petty offense to die for to me, but resisting arrest is never a good idea.

[Singlestack]

When non-tax stamped cigarettes are outlawed, only outlaws will have non-tax stamped cigarettes. I dont smoke but $13.00 for a pack of cigs is ridiculous. Over $6.00 tax per pack!! Seems like a petty offense to die for to me, but resisting arrest is never a good idea.

Yup, Mr Garner shouldn't have resisted arrest from the little guy. That allowed a greater degree of force to be used. In these days of "less lethal", I'm wondering why the cops didn't warn/use OC or taser instead? Maybe that wasn't NYPD's policy, but it would be good to know what NYPD's policy called for. Would also be good to know exactly what charges the grand jury was asked to consider.

[Bailey Guns]

A pilot intentionally bringing a plane down and killing his/her passengers is not analogous to a police officer using an unauthorized but not illegal restraint tactic and unintentionally causing the death of a person with a criminal record and resisting arrest, during the course of arrest. You can't charge someone for violating policy that doesn't rise to a violation of law.

Garner also had other medical issues that contributed to his death: hypertension, bronchial asthma, obesity and diabetes. He was a physical wreck.

Furthermore, some of you people need some serious reading comprehension work. Nowhere in this discussion have I defended the officers. The fact is, none of you know what the GJ heard. You know what you've read in various media reports. If you think you can make a fair decision from watching this video then your the one who's crazy and I hope none of you are ever called to make a "fair" decision as a member of any jury. Because you obviously can't do it.

Here's what I know: The officers contacted Garner and for whatever reason attempted to arrest him. He resisted (granted it wasn't violent). In an attempt to restrain Garner and get him to the ground (standard police protocol) an officer used an unauthorized tactic that is not illegal...it just violates policy (and for good reason, obviously). In an attempt to handcuff Garner the officers placed him face down...also standard police protocol. Garner is obese with the other mentioned health issues. He said he couldn't breathe. Obviously, he could breathe or he wouldn't have been able to speak. He probably couldn't breathe very well. Paramedics arrived but did not initially attempt to assist Garner, who was then apparently unconscious. Garner went into cardiac arrest in the ambulance.

Here's other things I know: Garner weighed 400 pounds. Garner had a criminal history with over 30 arrests dating to when he was 16. Had he not resisted, he wouldn't be dead. Officer Pantaleo has been the subject of prior lawsuits for violating procedures. I don't know the details or outcome of those lawsuits. Pantaleo should not have used the choke hold. The officers should have recognized the warning signs that Garner was in distress. On the other hand, many people complain of various physical issues when they're arrested so, and I'm not defending them...just stating what I've seen from experience, I'm sure they didn't put a lot of credence into his complaints. They also aren't trained medical personnel.

Positional asphyxia started to be taught to police officers, at least where I worked, in the early 90s. But we were taught simply to place a person who had been restrained completely (hands and feet) on their side or back if possible. New restraint equipment then became available that allowed a "hog-tied" (old term) person to sit upright to avoid these potential issues. But choke holds were strictly forbidden. I can tell you one of the easiest ways to get a person who's resisting on to the ground is to grab their head/hair. Where the head goes the body will follow. It happens sometimes when everyone's amped up.

So, bottom line, I support the GJ decision because I don't have ENOUGH INFORMATION to dispute it. I don't support the officers actions relative to the alleged offense. And it's tragic the guy died. But he made decisions, and he had health issues, that contributed to his death. The ME even said so (the health issues part). This isn't over by a long shot. There could be potential federal and civil issues (the family has already filed a $75 million lawsuit).

My opinions have nothing to do with not wanting to "cross the thin blue line". Some of you need to get over that. I haven't worn a badge for 13 years. But, unlike most of you, I've been there, know the training, know the procedures and I have a good working knowledge of the law and legal process. I didn't learn what I know about police work and the legal system from watching TV. Many of you apparently did...and you didn't even watch the entire episode apparently.

I wouldn't attempt to make a judgement on a commercial pilot who made a mistake flying a 767 (or any other airliner) because I don't know how to fly an airliner. Nor would I tell an IT guy how to do his job because I don't know the ins and outs of it (or IT). I don't know why everyone seems to think they're some kind of freakin expert on police work when they've never done it. Or why they think they know better than a grand jury on whether or not to issue a true bill when they didn't hear the evidence and the grand jury did.

[RMAC757]

I realize that people are still amped up over the ridiculous things that have occurred surrounding Ferguson, but some posters need to step away from the keyboard and exit prick mode for a few hours.

Well put buddy

[Graves]

Well put buddy

Same.
Video speaks for itself.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I need more information. The Rodney King video was supposed to speak for itself too but things were completely different when the complete video was made available and you saw just how nuts and out of control King was. In this case, I don't understand from what I've seen why the cops "immediately" moved into what appeared to be an aggressive move to restrain Garner but the headlock used did not appear to be the banned carotid chokehold.

I can guess that the cops may have thought Garner was overacting when he complained about not being able to breathe or that he was able to breathe again when he went quiescent but I really don't know what was in their minds and why they didn't check his vitals.

At the end of the day, I have to trust the grand jury system knowing that -- like our republican form of government -- it's flawed but still the best system we have available.

[Limited GM]

Random observations and thought after viewing the video. 1)looked like a pretty poor choke hold to me. 2) did the choking prevent him from breathing or the dogpile of weight? 3)every cop should be trained and armed with a taser. 4) was the cardiac arrest due to the choking, weight pile, or the previous Big Macs?

i wasn't there, but I'd be a bit miffed if 4-6 cops took me down before asking me to put my hands behind my back, that I was under arrest. (This may have been said, I don't know)

bad day for more than just one person.

[RMAC757]

A pilot intentionally bringing a plane down and killing his/her passengers is not analogous to a police officer using an unauthorized but not illegal restraint tactic and unintentionally causing the death of a person with a criminal record and resisting arrest, during the course of arrest. You can't charge someone for violating policy that doesn't rise to a violation of law.

Garner also had other medical issues that contributed to his death: hypertension, bronchial asthma, obesity and diabetes. He was a physical wreck.
.......,.,,

My opinions have nothing to do with not wanting to "cross the thin blue line". Some of you need to get over that. I haven't worn a badge for 13 years. But, unlike most of you, I've been there, know the training, know the procedures and I have a good working knowledge of the law and legal process. I didn't learn what I know about police work and the legal system from watching TV. Many of you apparently did...and you didn't even watch the entire episode apparently.

I wouldn't attempt to make a judgement on a commercial pilot who made a mistake flying a 767 (or any other airliner) because I don't know how to fly an airliner. Nor would I tell an IT guy how to do his job because I don't know the ins and outs of it (or IT). I don't know why everyone seems to think they're some kind of freakin expert on police work when they've never done it. Or why they think they know better than a grand jury on whether or not to issue a true bill when they didn't hear the evidence and the grand jury did.

Bailey, my comparisons of the two jobs were more about the fact that carelessness at either can cost lives. Both jobs require that total strangers place a large amount of blind trust in you to keep them safe and assume your training is adequate to do so. As you know, every time there is an air accident we are heavily scrutinized and often found at least partially at fault even when those actions had nothing to do with the final outcome ( Most of the time we're also not there anymore to defend ourselves ). I won't get into it, but one of my degrees ( I'm not that smart, 2 was just more cost effective than one ) is heavily based in constitutional law, so I have studied the structure and process of our legal system. I like to stay clear of most race based threads as they turn into stupid forums for people to allow themselves to be heard and spout venom. I do not believe this is one of them though a couple have tried to steer it that way.

Often it appears that the level of participation on this site has to do more with a passive "Hate meter" than a common interest in the 2nd Amendment and our general rights as citizens. Everyone knows who most of the fire starters are. Bailey, you commented a lot on the Martain/Zimmerman and Wilson/Brown cases as well. A lot of which could've construed as speculation on your part. I guess my point in all of this worthless babble is that. "On it's face" something stinks here. I'm also tired of seeing this awesome country ripped apart over stuff as stupid as ethnicity and race ( You're either a citizen or your not....end of story). Even though we've had our polite differences, I alone should be your reference that not everyone thinks as part of a heard mentality. Yet it continues to be the catalyst for many of these conversations.

Finally, who gives a rat crap about Sharpton or Jackson. The only reason the media puts them on TV is that they know it will piss people off and increase viewer percentage. As most of our parents taught us.....ignore them and it will go away.

Have a good day
R

[BlasterBob]

The moral of this mess - You break the law, you may expect to possibly be arrested regardless of how petty YOU believe that law to be. Resist arrest and you know the possible consequences. Simple message - don't break the law in the first place.

[HoneyBadger]

Honestly I think a taser would have INCREASED the likelihood of Garner dying.