New ATF Ruling 2015-1 concerning 80% builds, build parties, CNC, etc

[BombSquad]

"As defined by section 921(a)(21)(A), the term “engaged in the business” means, as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, “a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.”"

The way I read the above definition of "engaged in the business", in the context of the document, allowing a friend to borrow your jig and router, without charging them to do so, is legal. I'm not a lawyer so I may be way off.

[mutt]

Except this ruling specifically calls out unlicensed machine shops, associations and societies. These entities are not engaged in the business of building and distributing firearms. Now it seems the ATF does consider them in the business of building firearms if they offer their facilities and tools to individuals seeking to build/finish receivers. The conveniently vague associations and societies definition could be applied to anyone. It was already illegal for FFLs to build unregistered firearms. There was no need for this ruling unless they intend to make it illegal for private individuals as well. Just my opinion of course.

[BombSquad]

The way I read it was they are "engaged in the business" if they charge a fee for offering their facilities. They define that term in the document for a reason, IMO.

[00tec]

I'm interpreting this as: "Rent my jig or bring beer to use it" as being illegal...

[zteknik]

I'm interpreting this as: "Rent my jig or bring beer to use it" as being illegal...

My thoughts exactly, I'll take iced tea though(unsweetened)

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm interpreting this as: "Rent my jig or bring beer to use it" as being illegal...

My thoughts exactly, I'll take iced tea though(unsweetened)

Which is why there are no more build parties.

[zteknik]

Which is why there are no more build parties.

Makes me not want to swap out parts for anybody else for that matter. I can see them counting that as some kind of manufacturing in one form or another.
Another chip of the boulder of freedom. Sooner or later all we'll have is dust the way they keep at it..

[Hound]

Here is a legal way around this particular issue. Though there is a lot of trust and good will required, a person could buy this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ghos...me-never-easy/

and then sell it, when done, to the next member, lets say for $100 or $50 off. Eventually it will have been paid for to a more reasonable cost for most. Lets say $300, which it would easily resell for. Then it is just a matter of buying it for a short time with an understanding to pass it on to the next for the same price. This goes along with a military practice of selling a used car to the guy rotating in to a duty station from the guys rotating out. It becomes a 'base car' that everyone enjoys. The only issue comes with maintenance and/or a 'dickhead' getting in the loop and ruining it all. Not a perfect answer....... But an answer.

Though pushing this, probably a bit too far (I don't know for sure), you 'should' be able to have a party were everybody buys and sells the CNC machine in one night so a build party is possible. Technically nobody can stop any of us from buying and selling a thing. There is no limit or requirement for how long. I have every right to buy something for a short period and to expect to then resell it. One day we could see the "Forum CNC" up on the Trading section????

[Great-Kazoo]

Here is a legal way around this particular issue. Though there is a lot of trust and good will required, a person could buy this

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ghos...me-never-easy/

and then sell it, when done, to the next member, lets say for $100 or $50 off. Eventually it will have been paid for to a more reasonable cost for most. Lets say $300, which it would easily resell for. Then it is just a matter of buying it for a short time with an understanding to pass it on to the next for the same price. This goes along with a military practice of selling a used car to the guy rotating in to a duty station from the guys rotating out. It becomes a 'base car' that everyone enjoys. The only issue comes with maintenance and/or a 'dickhead' getting in the loop and ruining it all. Not a perfect answer....... But an answer.

Though pushing this, probably a bit too far (I don't know for sure), you 'should' be able to have a party were everybody buys and sells the CNC machine in one night so a build party is possible. Technically nobody can stop any of us from buying and selling a thing. There is no limit or requirement for how long. I have every right to buy something for a short period and to expect to then resell it. One day we could see the "Forum CNC" up on the Trading section????

IIRC the mfg of this item may or may not be tied in with the Ares crew.