NRA support

[Great-Kazoo]

What one needs to realize regarding the NRA BASIC PISTOL course, is it's just that a BASIC course. Geared for the beginner, not Mr or Mrs, I'm ready to step up my game shooter. There are folks i have given classes to the basic wasn't basic enough. Others i tailored a class for that shooter.
The NRA is the biggest bat when it comes to politics, which IMO is where it has lost sight of the larger picture.
However with that $50M grass roots group and others out to make the NRA Obsolete, one must do what one can to make sure that doesn't happen. That's where the ILA comes in and get sour money.

[Aloha_Shooter]

http://training.nra.org/nra-gun-safety-rules.aspx

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

The whole reason you're doing all of this subparagraph is that you're treating the gun as if it was loaded until proven otherwise. I have always heard and taught to treat the gun as if it was loaded in every NRA course I've participated in. I don't know where you've seen otherwise. I deal with a limited circle of instructors but every one of us goes into great detail on proving a weapon is safe and it's in the material.

I don't know where you're drawing a subtle assumption that students don't have to treat a gun as a lethal weapon. I said, "treat every firearm as if it's loaded until proven otherwise." [emphasis added]. You have removed the magazine, opened the action, and done a chamber check so you can clean the gun at home -- oops, under your interpretation, the only way I can clean the gun is at the range because I have to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction ("so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage") and there is no safe direction in most homes.

Sorry, the only issues I'm seeing are self-imposed. I respect almost all of your posts but I think your complaint here is off-base and doesn't fit in with any of the training I have received or given.

[Bailey Guns]

He already gave you an acceptable answer. If I field strip a pistol it's still a firearm. But now I KNOW it's unloaded and safe to handle like it's unloaded. Granted, the circumstances under which you might treat a gun as if you KNOW it's unloaded are few but they do exist.

If I have the bolt removed from a bolt action rifle and want to check the muzzle using a bore light and I've emptied the magazine and checked the chamber I KNOW that gun's unloaded and it's safe for me to treat it like it's unloaded by looking down the barrel using the light.

I agree that accidents happen because people are sure their gun is unloaded when it isn't...for whatever reason. Guns are deadly...but they can be made safe.

It's like Rule #2...Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you're ready to fire. With several modern guns you'd never be able to field strip them if you didn't pull the trigger in order to field strip them. Few things are absolute.

The horse is dead...but beat it if you need to to make yourself feel better.

[Mtn.man]

I just added butter to my popcorn, MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Irving]

Why is there a debate about this? If you always treat as firearm as if it's loaded, even when doing things like field stripping, there will be no issues. The example with the bolt being taken out, I still wouldn't point the gun at the cat, or would move the barrel to point at the ground if someone walked into the room, as I'm sure each and everyone in this thread would as well. It's just a good habit. Since we all do it, doesn't seem to be any reason to discuss it.

[asmo]

You haven't answered the question. Once again, please advise, in what circumstance should someone have any good reason to stop treating a firearm like it is loaded.

One last time, in what circumstance should someone stop treating a firearm like it is loaded.

Pray tell, in what circumstance should someone NOT treat a firearm as if it loaded (because they have "proven" otherwise).

This thread has gone way off the rails from what, I thought, was the original question. So in an effort just to poke Foxtrot with a sharp stick:



There. In the real world I hand you one of those - and now I have now pointed a firearm at you. I stopped treating it like it was loaded. Think of the children...... Admonish me as you see fit.


As was said above. There are no absolutes in this world. As much as we want to look for them they don't exist.

[Bailey Guns]

How about force on force...like with MILES training? Real guns, pointed at people all the time. Violates about every one of the Big 4. But it's done.

[Joe_K]

The 3 NRA rules of Firearm Safety:

1. ALWAYS Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

Operative Phrase: Safe Direction
Definition of Safe Direction: The place where if a round were to be fired there would be ZERO loss of life, Injury, and MINIMAL property damage.


2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Describe and demonstrate what straight and off the trigger looks like.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Operative Phrase: Ready to use.
Self Defense vs. Hunting,
Competition, long term storage etc.

The NRA does an excellent job at providing firearms training for both students and Instructors. The top down business plan (typical of large organizations) over selling and over hyping of what the NRA actually does can be off putting for most folks. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I think that you will find though that the face of the organization is changing, look up Colion Noir for instance.

P. S. PM me Foxtrot if you would like to take an NRA course. It's on me.

[kidicarus13]

IBTL

[asmo]

been checking our your forum here for a while. Lots of good info on my favorite battle rifle. But this thread is really a mind blower. Most of you seem more intersted in slamming the media and almost blaming those that do seek common sense gun control.

It really is time. For serious, not just common sense weapon control in this country. Yeah, I am a gun owner, and a contributer to the Brady Campaign, and I don't think it too off the wall for me to not find the two necessarily incompatible. And yeah, even though I am gun owner, I am a liberal. Voted for Obama.

And I will vote for gun control, too. Too many crazies (look in a mirror, some of you right wingnuts) and too many guns. And yeah, if necessary, for the greater good, I'll turn in my guns, too.

Big deal here is the 2nd Amendment. Some of you are over-eager for the chance to put all your survival gear and dozens of magazines to use, going to war with all those you feel that, in some way, have insulted you, have different beliefs, are of different color or religion or sexual orientation-- The SHP scenario for you is a change to settle those old scores.

An argument can be made by rational people that the second amendment is no longer needed, that the people are not going to have to violently raise up against our government. That amendment to the constittution was written over two hundred years ago, when the colonies did used armed force to toss the colonizers out. The republic has lasted all this time just fine, and will in the future. The 2nd Amend is passe'.

Was there something you were actually trying to say or accomplish with that? I am looking for a question or even a comment on the OP's original query. Failing that all I see is poor ranting. What is it you wanted/needed to say?