CMMG perfects the drop in AR .22 conversion.

[Jer]

Blackdog/cmmg/cienner style mags are pretty much the defacto mag for .22 AR conversions. That mag will work with all the major conversion bolts, all the major dedicated uppers, the sig 522 and whomever else decides to use them. To use a computer term, they're an open standard. M&P15 mags only work with the that rifle, hence my use of proprietary. I have a dedicated .22 upper, a conversion bolt and plan to get a sig522. Being able to use one mag format is huge for me. But that's me. Most people could probably care less.

We're in agreement though that no matter if you use a conversion or a dedicated 22 rifle you are going to be buying a more rare mag that is proprietary to that rifle as in you can't swap it between your other AR15's which is where the price savings and selection comes from. That's the point I was making. I got a few mags for my M&P15-22 for cheap and that's all I need. They work well and I didn't find myself saying 'Damn I wish Magpul made mags for this' because it wasn't necessary.

M&P15's are slick rifles, nothing wrong with them. I just have different wants.

I can respect that and that's all I was trying to do was open a dialog to find out why some chose what they chose. I wasn't condescending or negative with my post asking why not a dedicated rifle... just curious.

[Jer]

Jams as in spent casings stuck in the chamber? If so, I had that prob as well. Check your extractor. If a round won't stay on the bolt face when you turn it horizontal, replace or fix the extractor. Once I did that reliability went way up.

I'll go as far as saying that I haven't found a conversion kit for any firearm that I like. All of them lower the reliability of the firearm and all of them are a bandaid fix for the real solution... a dedicated firearm built from the ground up for the caliber intended. This has been my experience across the board. Maybe you have different experiences than me that changes the outlook on this topic. That's all I'm saying.

[mutt]

I'll go as far as saying that I haven't found a conversion kit for any firearm that I like. All of them lower the reliability of the firearm and all of them are a bandaid fix for the real solution... a dedicated firearm built from the ground up for the caliber intended. This has been my experience across the board. Maybe you have different experiences than me that changes the outlook on this topic. That's all I'm saying.

Uh, I think we're confusing bad design with mechanical malfunction. I never had any problems with my conversion bolt. My dedicated upper had issues because of a bad extractor. And we are talking .22s here. Even the famed 10/22 will have a jam once in a while. semi-auto 22's as a class aren't known as fail-safe firearms. They're fun plinkers or training aids but not SHTF weapons. I like .22s because their fun and cheap to shoot, but I would never rely on one for my life.

[Jer]

Uh, I think we're confusing bad design with mechanical malfunction. I never had any problems with my conversion bolt. My dedicated upper had issues because of a bad extractor. And we are talking .22s here. Even the famed 10/22 will have a jam once in a while. semi-auto 22's as a class aren't known as fail-safe firearms. They're fun plinkers or training aids but not SHTF weapons. I like .22s because their fun and cheap to shoot, but I would never rely on one for my life.

I don't plan to trust my life to one either but that doesn't mean I don't want it to work. Every conversion I have used has caused issues of reliability and by that I mean bad design that causes mechanical malfunction. They aren't independent of each other in this discussion. I have a Glock 17 that has eaten literally tens of thousands of rounds of 9mm of any and all varieties and I never had problems with it. I have tried several different fancy .22 conversion kits for it and it's always the same thing... I spend as much time clearing malfunctions, identifying issues and taking things apart as I do actually shooting the damn thing. Same thing goes for AR15 conversion kits and others that I have tried. Personally, I really don't like using 'conversion kits' for anything because my experience has been that they are more trouble then they are worth.

So, to recap:

Glock 17: not problematic, fun and worry free to shoot
AR15: not problematic, fun and worry free to shoot
AR15-22: not problematic, fun and worry free to shoot

Glock 17 w/22 conversion: numerous malfunctions & FtF w/lots of frustration as a result. Fun to shoot when it works though.
AR15 w/22 conversion: numerous malfunctions & FtF w/lots of frustration as a result. Fun to shoot when it works though.

[Not_A_Llama]

Clearly you have your opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

Dude, chill. It's .22 rifles, no one really gives a fuck. Are they cutting you a commission or something?

I've owned an M&P 15-22. The AR15 + Ciener represents a substantially better value for shooters using their 22 function to train. If you just wanted a .22 to shoot, Marlin 795s are $95 at Dick's.

As for the shooter with operational issues... experiment with ammo. My conversion (and actually most of my .22 rifles) hate Remington Thunderbolt. They loooove minimags and Rem golden bullet. YMMV.

[Jer]

Dude, chill. It's .22 rifles, no one really gives a fuck. Are they cutting you a commission or something?

I've owned an M&P 15-22. The AR15 + Ciener represents a substantially better value for shooters using their 22 function to train. If you just wanted a .22 to shoot, Marlin 795s are $95 at Dick's.

As for the shooter with operational issues... experiment with ammo. My conversion (and actually most of my .22 rifles) hate Remington Thunderbolt. They loooove minimags and Rem golden bullet. YMMV.

I am chill I just don't like your blanket statement that the 'MP15-22 is a horrible training proposition' because I whole heartedly disagree. It's the same size, layout and functionality as a standard AR15 and replicates all functionality in every way. The only difference is felt recoil so I'm still waiting to hear why it's so horrible. I don't make a dime on them and could care less if people rush out and buy one based on what I say but, much like a Glock, 1911, AK47 or any other proven firearm out there, it irks me when people say they aren't any good w/o substantiating such claims. Tends to sway the conversation off course from actual conversation to stupid debates that nobody wins. In fact, I wouldn't have had a problem with anything else you said in the post save for that one statement that I quoted.

[StagLefty]

M&P-15/22 = $480-500?
CMMG .22 kit - $180 + you can trian for cheap with the exact same weapon you shoot .223 out of.

$400 in December at Sportsmans. Just saying.

[Not_A_Llama]

I am chill I just don't like your blanket statement that the 'MP15-22 is a horrible training proposition' because I whole heartedly disagree. It's the same size, layout and functionality as a standard AR15 and replicates all functionality in every way. The only difference is felt recoil so I'm still waiting to hear why it's so horrible. I don't make a dime on them and could care less if people rush out and buy one based on what I say but, much like a Glock, 1911, AK47 or any other proven firearm out there, it irks me when people say they aren't any good w/o substantiating such claims. Tends to sway the conversation off course from actual conversation to stupid debates that nobody wins. In fact, I wouldn't have had a problem with anything else you said in the post save for that one statement that I quoted.

Well, ok, so if you read my post instead of going on this bizarre reply-to-everyone-fest, you'd have an idea why it's not a good training proposition. With a conversion, you're shooting /literally/ with your own gun. Not a five pound bare bones plastic rifle, but honest-to-god, your own rifle. I have a Magpul CTR, Aimpoint Micro, Midlength railed handguard, TD grip, Magpul AFG, Redimag, and a Surefire flashlight. It's not an unusual setup. The S&W as it comes is *nothing* like my real gun.

I know I'm not in the minority for having customized my gun. I won't be spending an extra $1k to make the $450 M&P shoot like my real AR15, when $200 of conversion does the same job, better.

Y'know, previously, a point could have been made about the BHO functionality on the Atchissons being an issue, but with CMMG's innovations (the topic of this thread, not an M&P cheerfest), the conversion is /the/ way to go now.

[HBARleatherneck]

http://www.botachtactical.com/cmar22lrcoki.html

http://mactec-militaryarms.com/ciener.html

both of these sites, (and many others) sell the conversion for under $150. thats why I like the kit. I would consider a dedicated upper.
i am happy i have a Dillon 650.

[Jer]

Well, ok, so if you read my post instead of going on this bizarre reply-to-everyone-fest, you'd have an idea why it's not a good training proposition. With a conversion, you're shooting /literally/ with your own gun. Not a five pound bare bones plastic rifle, but honest-to-god, your own rifle. I have a Magpul CTR, Aimpoint Micro, Midlength railed handguard, TD grip, Magpul AFG, Redimag, and a Surefire flashlight. It's not an unusual setup. The S&W as it comes is *nothing* like my real gun.

I know I'm not in the minority for having customized my gun. I won't be spending an extra $1k to make the $450 M&P shoot like my real AR15, when $200 of conversion does the same job, better.

Y'know, previously, a point could have been made about the BHO functionality on the Atchissons being an issue, but with CMMG's innovations (the topic of this thread, not an M&P cheerfest), the conversion is /the/ way to go now.

Making additional AR's like your primary AR isn't hard save for optics and weapon lights. I easily and inexpensively equipped my AR15-22 w/AFG, ACS, Ergo Grip, ladder hand guards, MBUS and all the other goodies my primary AR15 has. I got one of the unthreaded bbls unfortunately so that's being threaded right now for a FH and it will also get suppressed just like my primary AR15. You see it as not being the same and I see it as being as close to the real deal as you can get.

If there is a new conversion that works better then that's what I was trying to find out when I asked why not an M&P15-22. To me, with my experience, that has been the most reliable option. You said I turned it into a cheerfest but all I was doing was looking for information. It quickly turned into an M&P bash and all I was doing was defending that which worked well for me and asking what made the other options so much better. I was actually having some good conversations (that you called a bizarre reply-to-everyone-fest) with others in this thread.

I will just bow out of this conversation since it's pretty clear I'm not going to get the information I was looking for and someone is taking my posts as a distraction rather than conversational like most others are. I guess I forgot for a moment that forums weren't for discussion.