Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters TAKE 2

[HoneyBadger]

Flash bangs and shots fired at the truck after Finicum was down?

It does look like it...

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'm really not understanding the outrage over the use of an ISR asset. Its a passive measure that gives the good guys on the ground a better picture of the situation and it can be invaluable in a SAR scenario. Also, there would be no audio of what was transpiring on the ground, only ICS and radio comms. There would be no audio of what the agents were shouting to the suspect or gunfire.

[Bitter Clinger]

Looks like he put his hands up, got shot, grabbed the wound, and was murdered for feeling pain. Looks like a total ambush set up to me. We likely are witnessing another Ruby Ridge here

[hollohas]

Flash bangs and shots fired at the truck after Finicum was down?

During the press conference they said they did fire a flash bang into the truck to incapacitate the others. Ouch.

They also said in the press conference that the state police were the arresting agency. I'll have to watch it again, but I'm pretty sure they said the State Police shot him too. Um....that didn't look like Highway Patrol to me.

EDIT:

Yup. The FBI say that OSP troopers shot him. The transcript of the press conference is available online.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...rt_maj-story-1

[Bailey Guns]

Looks to me like the officer that jumped in front of the truck thought the white pickup was going to hit the roadblock vehicle he was behind. Kind of seems like he jumped out of the way of a possible collision but guessed wrong.

It does appear the man who got out of the truck was reaching for something several times. Doesn't look at all like he was reaching for gunshot wounds as he was only using one hand. Pretty hard to make sense of the situation just from that video.

Probably file this under PSG - WSP.

[sniper7]

Totally messed up situation, I'll hold judgement until the facts come out and hope true justice will be served be it against the Feds or the militia.

[hollohas]

The "militia" was stupid for taking over a remote ranger station in protest and to make demands that no one could meet. I do not support what they were doing.

The media and especially the Feds were stupid for blowing it up into what transpired. Those guys were in and out of town, having meetings with the sheriff, with locals, always wearing blue jeans and cowboy hats. They could have just arrested the leaders the next time they visited the sheriff's office to chat, when they knew there weren't any kids around, when they could see there were no rifles or chance for major problem. Just invite them into the office and say, it's time to end this, you're under arrest.

I understand why the Feds lured them away from the refuge, because they didn't want to create a standoff. I get that. On the surface not a bad plan. But this group was not held up, barricaded in there. They had proven they were more than happy to simply meet like men in town. A roadblock, uav covered ambush was just the feds making a mountain out of a molehill. There was a much greater risk of major escalation with that arrest. Occupants with unknown weapons in vehicles, no way to see what they're up to. Way more unknowns. That was stupid. And no one should need the benefit of hindsight to see that. Two vehicles traveling with multiple occupants is a very dynamic situation with many, many unknowns. A semi-cordial meeting at the sheriff's office as they'd previously done has virtually zero unknows.

But the feds have their toys, might as well use them.

[Joe_K]

https://youtu.be/aAGxDWKrjPQ

[Joe_K]

Fails in order as I see them.
1. Running from LE.
2. Trying to drive faster than LE aircraft.
3. Not stopping for a roadblock.
4. Slamming into an off road snow bank.
5. Doing ANYTHING with your hands aside from keeping them up and fingers spread AFTER running from LE, while LEO points guns at you.

To the point that this was riskier than arresting them at a public space. Really? The aerial footage pretty much looks to be sparsely populated. If you can choose no innocent bystanders getting plugged in a 2 way shootout with a bunch of idiots, or doing it in BFE, were would you pick?
These guys, (Bundy group), were NEVER going to win shit. They were uninvited, in someone else's back yard, picking a fight over someone else's problems, while breaking multiple laws. I didn't wish death on them, and I am extremely sympathetic to thier supposed underlying principles of smaller, less aggressive and intrusive government, but this was NOT the fight, NOT the Alamo, and NOT the time for this.

[Joe_K]

Looks like he put his hands up, got shot, grabbed the wound, and was murdered for feeling pain. Looks like a total ambush set up to me. We likely are witnessing another Ruby Ridge here

People don't tend to grab at gunshot wounds when shot. Stupid people, playing stupid games, win stupid prizes.