Trump carries

[Bailey Guns]

Libertarian party, bro. Consistently supporting liberty and capitalism for everyone. Not the establishment.

Oh, wait...you were serious?

Grant H, (and all the others that also think this) your belief that it is strictly a two party system is exactly what the two parties want you to think. It is the only thing that really gives them power. If everyone just stopped supporting the two establishment parties that everyone is so fed up with, they would starve and die tomorrow. Stop allowing them to create your reality.

But everyone isn't going to do that. Ever. Not in our lifetimes anyway. I've been hearing that about libertarians for 30 or 40 years. As a matter of fact, almost NO ONE is going to do that. The party has slowly gained traction to where they generally command a whopping +/-1% of the vote in every election. Wow... That's the reality the libertarian party has created.

[GilpinGuy]

Yeah, Rosen ejamacated me to fact that I was basically foolish for voting for Perot and he was right. It was my first time voting for Prez and I was young and impressionable, so give me some slack.

[Grant H.]

Libertarian party, bro. Consistently supporting liberty and capitalism for everyone. Not the establishment.



Grant H, (and all the others that also think this) your belief that it is strictly a two party system is exactly what the two parties want you to think. It is the only thing that really gives them power. If everyone just stopped supporting the two establishment parties that everyone is so fed up with, they would starve and die tomorrow. Stop allowing them to create your reality.

Look at society today. Seriously, get on Youtube, and watch some of the videos of people asking questions of general society.

Due to screwed up public education, and the fact that we as a country are no longer governed as the founding fathers set up, we are permanently hosed into a two party system. The percentage of our society that actually looks beyond the 2 parties is very low, making it nearly impossible for a third party candidate to win. Then you have to factor in that there are usually several third party candidates, and now that low percentage is split across multiple candidates, so which ever main party they would have voted for loses the election, and the opposing main party says thanks to all the third party candidates for ensuring them the election.

My thinking that there are only two parties that can win a Pres. election has nothing to do with them having power because I recognize that there are other parties, and I recognize the problem that they create. The other 80-90% of Americans that think there are two parties give them that power.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

Since we have allowed our public schools and universities to continue to teach that we are a democracy, we are screwed. There are now too many people that believe that we are a democracy, not a Constitutional Republic, to ever correct the course without bloodshed. I disagree with Foxtrot that revolution will never be an option, but the point he makes about education is true. We no longer have control of general education, and those that do, want generally uneducated serfs.

[Irving]

Guys, this is the most important election of US history.

[Irving]

I just wanted to be the first to say that this year.

[roberth]

Guys, this is the most important election of US history.

But aren't they all?

[roberth]

I just wanted to be the first to say that this year.

Now we've got that out of the way.

[HoneyBadger]

Oh, wait...you were serious?




But everyone isn't going to do that. Ever. Not in our lifetimes anyway. I've been hearing that about libertarians for 30 or 40 years. As a matter of fact, almost NO ONE is going to do that. The party has slowly gained traction to where they generally command a whopping +/-1% of the vote in every election. Wow... That's the reality the libertarian party has created.

Cute. I'm not going to rehash your failed logic on this one. Everyone is sick of hearing it. The fact of the matter is that more than 40% of Americans identify themselves as independents and we now see more dissent against the parties than we have seen in 80+ years. Who has been most successful in the current national election cycle? People who refuse to tow the party line. People who have a long history of not agreeing with the party and not participating in the party's control mechanisms. The masses are supporting Trump and Sanders in shocking numbers, and it's precisely because Trump and Sanders ARE NOT representative of the Republican and Democratic parties. It's obvious the 2 major parties have failed the people that support them, but the people continue to support them because the 2 major parties control so much of the election process.

But don't take my word for it. I'm just a crazy guy who is skeptical of your love for an organization that lets you down Every. Single. Time. <-- That last link really speaks for the rest.

[HoneyBadger]

Look at society today. Seriously, get on Youtube, and watch some of the videos of people asking questions of general society. Yes, many people are ignorant. This has always been true.

Due to screwed up public education (This is a whole 'nother discussion, but yes. It's basically indoctrination), and the fact that we as a country are no longer governed as the founding fathers set up (When did this start? Go ahead and do some research and I think you'll find that it coincided with the creation of the two modern main parties), we are permanently hosed into a two party system (I disagree with you here, but that's okay. It's okay to disagree with someone else's opinion and still like them. ). The percentage of our society that actually looks beyond the 2 parties is very low (See multiple links in my post above... notably the first several links), making it nearly impossible for a third party candidate to win. Then you have to factor in that there are usually several third party candidates, and now that low percentage is split across multiple candidates (This is true, but not a bad thing. Not everyone agrees on every topic - that would be insanely boring), so which ever main party they would have voted for loses the election, and the opposing main party says thanks to all the third party candidates for ensuring them the election. This is very circumstantial and have been proven and dis-proven almost as much as global warming.

My thinking that there are only two parties that can win a Pres. election has nothing to do with them having power because I recognize that there are other parties, and I recognize the problem that they create. The other 80-90% of Americans that think there are two parties give them that power. This is absolutely true. The parties only have power because people give it to them. The parties are just non-profit organizations - they are not in any way a part of the Constitution. They were created several years after the US was officially formed for the same reasons they exist today: to give certain individuals more power in Washington. Unfortunately for us, the "individuals" that have the most influence (Hillary's delegate situation is a perfect example of this) are corporations that benefit from the legislation they buy through their preferred politicians. The good news for us is that the parties have undergone transformations historically and I think the GOP may be about to go the way of the Whigs.

And the last thing before we return to discussing Trump's stance on guns:

[hollohas]

Yep. Trump is all about himself. He's probably one of those people that thinks he should enjoy his right to protect himself but that everyone else should just rely on the police.

Careful, Trump might call a press conference in order to call you a "lying guy" for that and hire "very good lawyers" to sue you if you don't fix your act being a "totally unstable individual" for calling attention to his past statements....

This guy is seriously a child. There is long, recorded history of Trumps past political limp wrist. The guy has changed parties regularly, he is on record supporting the AWB, he is on record supporting MANY dems, he is on record saying he would create the best healthcare in the world and the government would pay for it...

But heaven forbid, if you point out his true history, he's going to scream liar, liar pants on fire and threaten to sue. What a juvenile douche.