Just cant win

[Irving]

Except for the person I just told you guys about that was detained in a cell until further proof of being here legally was presented.

I honestly don't expect that to be the norm. I'm sure there is going to be a rather uncomfortable...adjustment period...but I don't expect it to last for ever and think things will be hunky dory again in short order.

[cebeu]

Easy Fixes:

A.) In order to be subject to a immigration check, the suspect must
i.) Be engaged in a licensed activity (i.e. driving) and/or
ii.) Be committing, or intending to commit a misdemeanor or felony.

i.) I would not agree, no relevancy to one’s legal status
ii.) If you are on US soil, and as of the signing of this law, in AZ, and not under a recognized legal status you already ARE committing a misdemeanor.

[cebeu]

[quote=Stuart;200209]Except for the person I just told you guys about that was detained in a cell until further proof of being here legally was presented.]/quote]

Are you referring to that story you relayed the other day, Gloria's friends dad?

[clublights]

I leave out minor infractions and petty offenses because I don't think the cops should have carte blanche to stop and identify people for something stupid like jaywalking, loitering, etc.

Except The Cops can do this anyways. always have been able to. Jaywalking is Illegal. Loitering is illegal. dropping your cigarette butt on the ground is technically littering. which is illegal. Any officer in Colorado ( or AZ or NM Or Utah or Cali). Can give you a ticket for these offenses. which of course requires him to ID you. you can't write tickets to " John Doe"

Now Lets say you can't provide a state issued ID( because you don't have one ) , and you don't know your SSN, now would that make it reasonable for the officer to think maybe you could be an illegal ?

Your Basically required by Colorado law to have a state issued ID With you at all times in public. at least this is the way I've been told and read the related laws. ( same in NM and AZ)

[funkfool]

i.) I would not agree, no relevancy to one’s legal status
ii.) If you are on US soil, and as of the signing of this law, in AZ, and not under a recognized legal status you already ARE committing a misdemeanor.

Winner.
Points for using the grey matter holding your ears together.

[Irving]

Except for the person I just told you guys about that was detained in a cell until further proof of being here legally was presented.

Are you referring to that story you relayed the other day, Gloria's friends dad?

Yes, her dad and her kids. They were all detained until she could bring down the kid's birth certificates and whatever paper work he had. I don't know if he is a full citizen or just a legal resident alien.

[cebeu]

Yes, her dad and her kids. They were all detained until she could bring down the kid's birth certificates and whatever paper work he had. I don't know if he is a full citizen or just a legal resident alien.

I'll be candid Stuart, I dismissed that immediately as an "example of abuse" as you characterized it, still do. I get the emotional connection you touched-on but two things,

1. I never, under any circumstance, would take a thrice removed re-telling of something like that and so quickly attach a fact statement to it, especially on a sensitive topic such as this. As written (or as shared with you), the bias of those carrying the message forward would have corrupted the facts so intensely their account would have little value in my assessment by the time it reached my ears/eyes.
2. Unless I have multiple sources providing counter-points (preferably to include 3rd-partys) and substantiating facts, eliminating bias and getting to the truth is a no-go. I purge hearsay and anecdotal commentary without giving it a second thought, especially when driven by emotion and the desire to “inflate” or sway opinion and decisions.

In your posted example, I absolutely do not accept that an aged, legal citizen with youngsters in the car and a valid driver’s license in his pocket, regardless of his “broken English” was detained and then required to show added proof of citizenship under this just-signed law. That story-line does not meet the minimum common-sense factor, it just doesn’t, and I suspect you know that too. If that gentleman was detained this week, and he probably was, I submit something else was the root-cause.

Question: What jurisdiction (city, town or township of record) did this event occur in?

No doubt you shared exactly what you heard but...that's not good enough evidence in my book to put a black-mark against LE and the new AZ law, not even close.

[Irving]

I totally understand and agree. I can only go off of what I've been told. I thought he wasn't going to have had a driver's license or something myself. That's really all I've heard about it. I'm skeptical about it myself. I don't know these people at all, so it's not like I'm worried about my poor little grandma being detained or something. I guess when they got out, the cops just told them that they are just enforcing the law. Again, all hearsay. I could try and find out where this took place if you want, but I was just passing the story along, not trying to vilify the police (especially not a specific department).

This isn't a complaint about the law either. The law is going to make a lot of big changes down there, even if it isn't enforced as strongly as people think it will be.

On a side note, I'm under the impression that an official, state issued driver's licenses can be had plenty easily while legal, then just keep it after your papers expire. Just get one while your visa is active, and you'll have a valid license for however many years until the license expires, even if your visa or other documents have expired.

Perhaps that is part of the reason of being taken in, not that he isn't legal, but that a driver's license doesn't prove anything.

I appreciate you being candid.

[Marlin]

Yes, her dad and her kids. They were all detained until she could bring down the kid's birth certificates and whatever paper work he had. I don't know if he is a full citizen or just a legal resident alien.

This is why you are in such an uproar about this?

The question comes to mind, if, he is a resident alien,Why, wasn't He in possession of his documents as REQUIRED, by federal law? Which, going off what you said, I'm guessing is the case. Or, is there maybe a little more to it?

[Marlin]

Okay,, That'll teach me to type faster..