Re: Immigration -- Common Sense is Wrong?

[Hoosier]

I've been maintaining that the fix is to illegal immigration is to make legal immigration easy.

http://factcheck.org/2010/05/does-im...ion-cost-jobs/

This, and it cites some interesting sources, says that it's widely accepted among the people who research it, that immigrant workers increase the number of jobs. That if you want to lower unemployment, you bring in more immigrants. That goes against "common sense" until you read and look at the actual statistics. The only group of native born citizens hurt by immigration are those without high school diplomas.

H.

[esaabye]

I've been maintaining that the fix is to illegal immigration is to make legal immigration easy.

http://factcheck.org/2010/05/does-im...ion-cost-jobs/

This, and it cites some interesting sources, says that it's widely accepted among the people who research it, that immigrant workers increase the number of jobs. That if you want to lower unemployment, you bring in more immigrants. That goes against "common sense" until you read and look at the actual statistics. The only group of native born citizens hurt by immigration are those without high school diplomas.

H.

While I would be fine with allowing more guest worker access if we actually enforced the return trips I think what we see now is not immigration for jobs but immagration for services.

If it were up to me, I would provide temp worker access with no services and no achor babies and forced return dates and then close up the border. Anyone coming across at that point is a bad guy because the good guys can use the front door.

BTW, I would not take factcheck.org as a good source of info. It has a bias as well.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Wrong, lowering legal immigration standard does not equal to a lower unemployment.

Legal immigrants by the current standards (excluding refugee/political asylees) must have certain unique skills or minimum of $1000000 in investment to bring into this country (or minimum $500000 investment into rural area). Yes by that standard, legal immigration is bringing down unemployment rate - and has been a real positive force in this country!

Most legal immigrants I know are against legalization/amnesty for the 20 millions illegals because that would create a huge double standard! Lowering the 'legal immigration standard' instead of enforcing the current law and border security is extremely irresponsible.

I just got back from my very own brother's sworn in as the newest US CITIZEN - Funny how out of 43 new citizens there, there were only 2 from Mexico. I had assumed from the numbers of Mexican illegals in this country, I would see many more than 2 out of the 43. Some folks just gotta stop making excuses!

[Hoosier]

While I would be fine with allowing more guest worker access if we actually enforced the return trips I think what we see now is not immigration for jobs but immagration for services.

Not sure what you mean about immigration for services -- like they come here for services? Welfare and government handouts are a different issue, and should be addressed as it applies to not just immigrants but the truely destitute, down on their luck, and people who abuse the system to live without ever working. I don't know what it's like to have absolutely nothing, and I don't know what services the government provides to someone who refuses to work, but that shouldn't be related.

close up the border. Anyone coming across at that point is a bad guy because the good guys can use the front door.

Yes, it would make securing the border much easier if the load was so much lower, I think.

BTW, I would not take factcheck.org as a good source of info. It has a bias as well.

Where did you hear that they are biased? Here, ironically, is FactCheck fact checking Snopes, http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/snopescom/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck

Of course, as with everytime I cite anything, people claim there's a bias. I guess bias is going to be left to the opinion of the person making the claim. I would presume someone out there really believes that MSNBC has no bias. Or that Fox News is really "fair and balanced."

One of the more interesting citations from the FactCheck piece was the CATO Institute link, a group that obviously has a point of view they're behind (Libertarianism). I find a lot of what I see from them to be bang on. That's no doubt due to my own libertarian bent.

H.

[GreenScoutII]

I find it interesting that no one, Republican or Democrat, really seems to understand what causes illegal immigration to begin with. It seems to me that if there were no one hiring these folks, there would be precious little reason for them to come.

I am a Libertarian, but one area where I strongly disagree is immigration. I do not support an open border/citizen of the world approach to immigration.

It is frequently said that immigrants take jobs Americans don't want. Well, there is some truth to this idea, but one must consider why this may be so. Whenever a country has a huge influx of largely unskilled immigrants, they will usually drive wages down in jobs that are already on the lower end of the wage scale. Often, illegals will work for even less than minimum wage. They effectively out compete the natives on price. While this makes Republicans salivate over the prospect of cheap labor, these low wages are what frequently drive these immigrants to seek the various forms of public assistance which our government provides. So, essentially, various businesses have been able to pass along the real labor cost onto the taxpayers.

If we want to stop illegal immigration, we need to prosecute the businesses hiring them. If wages in these industries which are particularly prone to using illegal labor go up to a level where Americans could actually afford to live on them, there will be less demand for public assistance and greater tax revenue.

There is no societal benefit to cheap labor.

[esaabye]

+1

Well said

[ColoEnthusiast]

If we want to stop illegal immigration, we need to prosecute the businesses hiring them. If wages in these industries which are particularly prone to using illegal labor go up to a level where Americans could actually afford to live on them, there will be less demand for public assistance and greater tax revenue.

There is no societal benefit to cheap labor.

Exactly! If the owner and ceo's got an automatic 6 month jail sentence, illegals would leave real soon. Auto insurance would go down drastically, as would health insurance.

As could taxes for:

Less Foodstamps
Less Welfare
Less WIC
Less LE
Less prisons (huge numbers of illegals in prison)
Less Medicaid
Less healthcare fraud for free services (many hospitals have closed due to illegals stealing services)
Less schools (California builds one per day to accommodate illegals!!!)

Then there are the benefits of less urban blight, much less crime, fewer DUI deaths, less traffic, 20 million or so fewer polluting vehicles, less water useage, less energy useage, etc. etc. etc....

STILL WAITING TO HEAR A LEGITIMATE DOWNSIDE..

Skilled, legal immigrants are a benefit. Other countries are smart enough to screen their applicants. Apparently many Americans don't think our country deserves decent, productive, and law-abiding people.

[Anton]

Skilled, legal immigrants are a benefit. Other countries are smart enough to screen their applicants. Apparently many Americans don't think our country deserves decent, productive, and law-abiding people.

66% of Americans, according to the latest polls, support Arizona SB1070. Americans understand what should be done and the problems illegal immigration poses. The problem is that our "representatives" don't give a **** what Americans think, they'll do what they want to do (or don't do anything at all, in this case) regardless. At BEST we'll get another amnesty bill pushed through with the claims that they're attempting to tackle the problem, while simply making it worse.

[sniper7]

I say go to the opposite extreme and call illegal immigration an invasion and enforce it with military force similar to actions they would take against taliban.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I say go to the opposite extreme and call illegal immigration an invasion and enforce it with military force similar to actions they would take against taliban.

nahhhh..dont want to see M1A2 rolling down Tucson. LOL