It Was Just Pot, They Said

[Irving]

Okay, so I'm all caught up with why everyone keeps talking about transients when this bill is about decriminalizing drugs. The problem with just decriminalization alone is that it doesn't change anything else about the overall situation with narcotics. It doesn't make sense to lower penalties on things unless other aspects of those things are regulated as well.

I like all the examples of provided of when penalties are lower, and when they would be higher, especially being around kids. That seems easy enough to add into a law.

[Gman]

The U.S. does imprison as many people per capita as does North Korea. No question there is too many jailed.

On the flip side, did you see the "Seattle is Dying" documentary someone else posted? I don't normally watch things (normally too political and biased either direction), but that one does bring a lot of facts to the table and does show a result of the progressive policies now proposed in Colorado.

Status quo isn't right, for sure. Just curious where you think the best balance is, if anywhere. (accepting that no solution is perfect).

My folks live in Washington and they brought up how terrible Seattle has become...and it continues to get worse due to their progressive policies. These policies flat out don't work, but that won't stop the sponsors from continuing down that path. The excuse they regularly use is that they 'just haven't done enough'.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The excuse they regularly use is that they 'just haven't done enough'.

Typical coming from the Left. Socialist policies continue to fail because "we just haven't stolen taxed the rich enough" and "we haven't spent enough on those who refuse to take charge of their own lives."

[Great-Kazoo]

The excuse they regularly use is that they 'just haven't done enough'.

With other peoples money

[vossman]

Why?

I like how this means a different thing to each individual.


I'm struggling with the idea that this will create significantly more homeless. Sounds like I need to watch that Seattle doc.

I don?t think there would be much deterrence for those wanting to try it.

[Irving]

I don?t think there would be much deterrence for those wanting to try it.

I'd say there isn't much deterrence now. If you're a youth, you don't really have anything to think about losing, like OxArt was saying earlier in the thread.

If you're at a party or something, you're thinking you'll just get high and continue to chill. People who consider the worry possible outcome aren't going to try in the first place. The sizeable population of hard drug users we have today and become so under the threat of the law already.

[FoxtArt]

I would agree, there isn't much of a deterrence now . Drug addicts are not the type of person to be always looking towards future consequences or savings; they are hedonists (but there again, so are most Americans anymore). The point of retaining the right kind of "criminalization" is perhaps, partially deterrence (to those that are not hedonistic, who easily mentally disregard trying drugs even once because they are illegal), but perhaps more importantly, so that all the other problems that accompany addicts can be dealt with - the "broken window" crimes and transients.

The problem with decriminalization really boils down to removing the only viable tool of dealing with transients.... and almost all of the transients are addicts, with a decent portion also having mental illness. "Criminalization" done right should sort of be like how firearms multiply the choices prosecutors have with certain types of property crime and minor assaults, which interestingly enough has entered the minds of many kinds of crooks (who will only hold up a gas station or a bank with say, a finger or a toy gun).

Decriminalize, and you're left with little to no enforceable way to resolve the tent campers crapping outside your business in public space and repeatedly shoplifting/vandalizing, thanks to various court rulings, plea deals, and weak punishments for those kind of offenses, its at most a revolving door at the courthouse for citations. You just have to get used to the addicts being your new neighbors, and they start to lose all fear of enforcement/police.

[Irving]

Why should tent camping on the sidewalk and crapping in the street not be a punishable offense though?

[Gman]

There used to be vagrancy laws. Then again, there also use to be state mental hospitals for those that couldn't couldn't function in society.

[BushMasterBoy]

There used to be vagrancy laws. Then again, there also use to be state mental hospitals for those that couldn't couldn't function in society.

There used to be vigilantes too. I bet they don't do that stuff in front of a motorcycle gangs club. Or a mobsters restaurant.
And they damn sure don't shit in front of the police station...or do they?