Wow, just wow!

[Bailey Guns]

If you reject this, and cannot see how the principles in play are not of profound importance...

I think this is the root of the problem...a sort of macro vs micro view of the issue.

[.455_Hunter]

I think this is the root of the problem...a sort of macro vs micro view of the issue.

Yes- The downfall of the Republic is linked to the failure of school administration to overreact to a senior prank that ended up offending the sensibilities of some overly sheltered families. Heaven forbid the school found out what most of the boys are doing everyday, probably some at the school too.

Once again, what would your response be if incident was mirrored- A student at SJW diversity and tolerance charter school slipped some copies of "Guns and Ammo" into lockers and binders and was banned from graduation for hate speech.

[Gman]

Copies of 'Guns and Ammo' have nothing to do with human development. Attempting to create a false allegory/straw man doesn't reinforce your argument.

There's a reason that condoms in the grocery store aren't between the candy and breakfast cereal.

Parents should be the ones to broach questions about sexuality from their children, when their children are mature enough to process the information. It's not appropriate for young adults/high school seniors to advance these questions under the guise of 'making a statement'.

If you want to host a private condom party in your home, that's your call. It's not appropriate in this school setting with the wide ranging student ages.

[.455_Hunter]

Copies of 'Guns and Ammo' have nothing to do with human development. Attempting to create a false allegory/straw man doesn't reinforce your argument.

There's a reason that condoms in the grocery store aren't between the candy and breakfast cereal.

Parents should be the ones to broach questions about sexuality from their children, when their children are mature enough to process the information. It's not appropriate for young adults/high school seniors to advance these questions under the guise of 'protest'.

There are many people in the country who would equate a copy of G&A as far, far worse for a teen to be exposed to than a condom. I am still awaiting an answer on the alternative scenario, because it raises just as many constitutional and freedom issues as real one.

And correct, condoms aren't in the cereal isle, they are in the medical isle, not hidden away as some sort of deviant product.

I have never said that I support what the seniors did for their prank. I agree it was probably poor taste, especially in a school of that apparent climate, but it was not specifically prohibited in the school handbook, and how much "disruption" was caused is directly controlled by the adminstration.

[Bailey Guns]

Yes- The downfall of the Republic is linked to the failure of school administration to overreact to a senior prank that ended up offending the sensibilities of some overly sheltered families. Heaven forbid the school found out what most of the boys are doing everyday, probably some at the school too.

Once again, what would your response be if incident was mirrored- A student at SJW diversity and tolerance charter school slipped some copies of "Guns and Ammo" into lockers and binders and was banned from graduation for hate speech.

It's a strawman argument, but whatever. My employer has certain rules they expect me to follow. It's up to me to decide if I want to follow them. If I don't, and I don't get caught, it still doesn't make it right. If I don't follow the rules and I do get caught that's on me. If they decide to punish me then I have no business whining about it.

Furthermore, who are you to decide how a parent raises their kids or what moral values the head(s) of a family wish their families to uphold? You've gone from attempting to defend your position to attacking the parenting abilities of people you don't know, and basically accusing other students of doing wrong without any evidence to support that, based on nothing more than your opinion is this was blown way outta proportion. I find that far more disturbing than the fact that some parents may have become upset over the prank.

You wanna know what I really think of this incident? I actually agree with you that this was probably a harmless prank gone wrong, likely no harm was meant and I could easily be convinced it was an over-reaction on the part of the principal. Having said that, I also think it's really none of my business how the principal handled it. He did what he thought was best for the school and the students. He's paid to make those decisions. You and I can think it's an over-reaction all we want. He has every right to impose the punishment he sees fit. The "guilty" students could've made the choice not to make a political statement and violate the rules or code of conduct or whatever it is. They chose to make the wrong decision and they're paying the price. Too fuckin bad.

I'd feel the same way about your G&A scenario. If it's a place where students were told that's not an acceptable publication on campus and they did that and got punished, well, so be it. I'd think it was foolish but they had a choice to follow the rules or not follow the rules.

[Bailey Guns]

...but it was not specifically prohibited in the school handbook...

I can see the student handbook now:

RULE #62,283: Hiding condoms in the property of other students is specifically prohibited.

RULE #62,284: Hiding an IUD in the property of other students is specifically prohibited.

RULE #62,285: Hiding birth control pills in the property of other students is specifically prohibited.

RULE #62,286: Hiding a diaphragm in the property of other students is specifically prohibited.

[Skip]

Please explain the "heinous" realities of the situation?

I have kids in public school right now (8th and 5th), and am fully aware of the challenges faced to keep kids on a good path. However, that doesn't mean I support blatant overreactions to situations that could be addressed more appropriately, like making the students involved give an apology to the rest of the school and complete some "community" service time.

If you believe "keep kids on a good path" and the casual promotion of promiscuity to minors is mutually exclusive, or an insignificant thing, then that is your personal belief/values.

There are parents who firmly disagree, and for now, have the option of enrolling in schools with different values/rules. One of those options is a charter which absolutely matters here even though you refuse to admit it. The charter is a public school, not a religious school. This school's value are not religious but, if you want the only alternative to public school being religious schools then complaining about a secular charter school with values is a great way to get there.

You've been posting as if this was done to your kids in a public school. These are parents and students who voluntarily made a different choice to comply with the school's values that are fundamentally different from a public school and knew that going in. These students were protesting the very values they agreed to uphold.

Preventing a senior from walking is a common disciplinary action for senior pranks gone wrong. It's the only recourse admin has at that point in the year without going ballistic, which isn't at all what happened here by any stretch of the imagination. These kids can move on with their lives without infamy if they could stop being activists. We all know the school didn't call the media over a "prank!" And this wasn't just a prank.

Copies of 'Guns and Ammo' have nothing to do with human development. Attempting to create a false allegory/straw man doesn't reinforce your argument.

There's a reason that condoms in the grocery store aren't between the candy and breakfast cereal.

Parents should be the ones to broach questions about sexuality from their children, when their children are mature enough to process the information. It's not appropriate for young adults/high school seniors to advance these questions under the guise of 'making a statement'.

If you want to host a private condom party in your home, that's your call. It's not appropriate in this school setting with the wide ranging student ages.

YES! A very moderate position, and one I respect, is that parents should be framing this conversation according to their values. If schools/admins that respect this are unable to keep conflicting values/beliefs out of the school then there are only two options left...

1. Forced degeneracy taught in public schools
2. Forced religious values taught in religious schools


Neither one of those recognize parents have control/input! And gone are the secular "positive values" school options.

Under #1, something like this is normal. Under #2, these students could have been expelled from certain schools.

I'm fine with #2 btw because my beliefs align with the school. We didn't go to a private school to demand the school change to suit our values. Like Bailey said, if my kids did this I'm fine with that punishment. Maybe when the kids get jobs they understand how to stay within the lines when it matters and not be activists.

[Gman]

I also find it telling that 3 of the 4 students accepted the discipline and didn't go to the graduation ceremony, but this individual did any way. And the student and parents made a public stink about it. Someone apparently believes that the rules don't necessarily apply to them.

Sounds like somebody's parents wanted to get all the benefits of the stellar education provided, but couldn't be bothered to hold themselves and their child to the standards that created that environment.

[CS1983]

Wow!

I am part of the problem because I don't agree that a box of condoms showing up in a high school rises to the outrage level of "heinous".

Good grief.

Yes.

Society as a whole is now degenerate and people wonder why. Why? Because it has deviated from the norm of understanding the proper application of liberty and has conflated it with license, shifting even to conflating vice with something in which all men have liberty to partake(!?). This is something the Founding Fathers and their philosophical resources warned against in no uncertain terms. Why? Because it is, historically, the demonstrable point at which society begins crumbling and anarchy soon follows. When individual men are no longer virtuous, they cannot form a virtuous society. It's not hard to grasp this. It is hard to come to grips with the reality that such a thing places an onus on the individual man to himself be virtuous. Why? Because they have to then stop doing their degenerate, deviant behavior with the mentality that it "doesn't hurt anyone", "in the privacy of their own home", the compartmentalization inherent in such behavior (and the resulting schizophrenic reality), etc.

In general, the social upheaval at large seems to be 1-2 generations after the initial point at which individuals begin to deviate and accept its normalization. Ergo, the present problem is not the fault of millenials (though they are at fault for their own actions), but the fault of Gen X and Baby Boomers (read: hippy generation). And that actually was the fault of the so-called "Greatest Generation" for allowing their kids to engage in the mentality of the 60's. Imagine how utterly libertine things will be in 20 years. And since that will result in an increase of crime, need for authority to stem the tide, etc., guess what the government's role will be: authoritarian dictatorship the likes of which would make Orwell and Wells roll over in their graves. Ironic, isn't it, that the one thing which could have stopped lawless immorality and authoritarianism is adherence to proper authority and virtue? ...So a kingdom was lost, all for want of a nail.

When a young adult/teen takes to school an object which itself only exists because of a conflating of liberty and license, and then introduces that object into a setting where it has no contextual necessity, and in doing so causes a myriad of potential and actual consequences, disrupts the good moral character the school seeks to impart, etc., consequences must follow in response.

Here's Colonel Mike Mullane's presentation of the normalization of deviance. If you want to know why this country is now a giant liberal cesspit and will die in a self-lit conflagration: simply watch the below and then apply the principles in play to morality, politics, and the satanic concept of "do what thou wilt". This is contra traditional moral, philosophical, political, and consequent boundary-based obstacles to degeneracy.


Part1


Part2


Parts3-4 in next post.

[CS1983]

Part3


Part4