Close
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Puyallup, WA
    Posts
    17,848

    Default US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights

    US judge: Terror watchlist violates constitutional rights


    I have mixed feelings about this.

    ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) ? The government?s watchlist of more than 1 million people identified as ?known or suspected terrorists? violates the constitutional rights of those placed on it, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

    The ruling from U.S. District Judge Anthony Trenga grants summary judgment to nearly two dozen Muslim U.S. citizens who had challenged the watchlist with the help of a Muslim civil-rights group, the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

    But the judge is seeking additional legal briefs before deciding what remedy to impose.

    The plaintiffs said they were wrongly placed on the list and that the government?s process for adding names is overbroad and riddled with errors.

    The watchlist is disseminated to a variety of governmental departments, foreign governments and police agencies.

    The FBI declined comment on the ruling Wednesday. In court, the FBI?s lawyers argued that the difficulties suffered by the plaintiffs pale in comparison to the government?s interests in combatting terrorism.

    Gadeir Abbas, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, called the ruling a victory. He said he will be asking the judge to severely curtail how the government compiles and uses its list.
    ?Innocent people should be beyond the reach of the watchlist system,? Abbas said. ?We think that?s what the Constitution requires.?

    Abbas said that while there has been significant litigation over the no-fly list, which forced the government to improve the process for people seeking to clear their name from the list, he said Trenga?s ruling is the first to broadly attack the government?s use of the watchlist. Trenga also wrote in his 31-page ruling that the case ?presents unsettled issues.?

    Ultimately, Trenga ruled that the travel difficulties faced by plaintiffs ? who say they were handcuffed at border crossings and frequently subjected to invasive secondary searches at airports ? are significant, and that they have a right to due process when their constitutional rights are infringed.

    He also said the concerns about erroneous placement on the list are legitimate.

    ?There is no evidence, or contention, that any of these plaintiffs satisfy the definition of a ?known terrorist,? Trenga wrote. And the alternate standard for placement ? that of a ?suspected terrorist? ? can easily be triggered by innocent conduct that is misconstrued, he said.

    The watchlist, also known as the Terrorist Screening Database, is maintained by the FBI and shared with a variety of federal agencies. Customs officers have access to the list to check people coming into the country at border crossings, and aviation officials use the database to help form the no-fly list, which is a much smaller subset of the broader watchlist.

    The watchlist has grown significantly over the years. As of June 2017, approximately 1.16 million people were included on the watchlist, according to government documents filed in the lawsuit. In 2013, the number was only 680,000. The vast majority are foreigners, but according to the government, there are roughly 4,600 U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents on the watchlist as of 2017.

    Abbas argued at a court hearing earlier this year that the intrusions imposed on those listed are all for naught and that the list is worthless in terms of preventing terrorism. He noted that Omar Mateen, the man who shot and killed 49 people at an Orlando nightclub in 2016, was at one time on the list but was later removed from it. Others who have committed terrorist acts have never even been included on the watchlist.

    The suit was filed in 2016, and has exposed previously unknown details about the list and how it is disseminated. In particular, government lawyers acknowledged after years of denials that more than 500 private entities are given access to the list. Government lawyers describe those private agencies as ?law enforcement adjacent? and include university police forces, and security forces and hospitals, railroads and even animal-welfare organizations.

    Abbas said the revelations about the government?s actions have come after years of dismissive responses from government officials who accused CAIR and others of paranoia, and that people are now paying more attention to the civil-rights implications of watchlisting.

    Earlier this year, the House of Representatives adopted a proposal from Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar that would force President Donald Trump?s administration to disclose details about how it shares the watchlist with foreign countries.
    Last edited by Gman; 09-05-2019 at 12:43.
    Liberals never met a slippery slope they didn't grease.
    -Me

    I wish technology solved people issues. It seems to just reveal them.
    -Also Me


  2. #2
    Zombie Slayer wctriumph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    N W of Fort Collins
    Posts
    6,188

    Default

    I do too. On one hand I do not like government compiled lists and on the other, we do need to be aware of "certain" persons.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."
    George S. Patton

    "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
    Dwight D. Eisenhower

    "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."
    John F. Kennedy

    ?A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment, and is designed for the special use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics.?
    George Fitch. c 1916.

  3. #3
    Machine Gunner DenverGP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Anna Tx
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    if watchlists are unconstitutional, seems like red flag laws are double-plus unconstitutional.
    'Unless a law-abiding individual has a firearm for his or her own defense, the police typically arrive after it is too late. With rigor mortis setting in, they mark and bag the evidence, interview bystanders, and draw a chalk outline on the ground' - Judge Benitez , 2019, Duncan v. Becerra.

    'One of the ordinary modes by which Tyrants accomplish their purpose without resistance is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms.' Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840.

  4. #4
    Recognized as needing a lap dance
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    5,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DenverGP View Post
    if watchlists are unconstitutional, seems like red flag laws are double-plus unconstitutional.
    I get the feeling they will disagree on that

  5. #5
    Machine Gunner
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Conifer
    Posts
    1,473

    Default

    According to San Francisco and many lunatic activists and officials out there, the NRA and its 5 million + members are all domestic terrorists unworthy of our 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment protections. Although in theory these watchlists are good for their "intended" purpose, the government proves time and again they can't be trusted to not abuse them.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson

    Feedback

  6. #6
    Machine Gunner
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    Why do they need a watchlist with the extensive security screenings?

    And as always, innocent till proven guilty in a court of law by your peers. Fvck the federal government's lists.

  7. #7
    Keyboard Operation Specialist FoxtArt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Montrose
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    Without delving into personal opinion, according to the article less than 5,000 people on the list are US Citizens, the other 1.2+ million are all foreign nationals.

    Curious how, if at all, that affects people's opinion of this list specifically.

  8. #8
    Machine Gunner
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    If they are not US citizens, fvck em. They have no right to enter this country. Those outside the US have 0 constitutional right to travel here.

  9. #9
    Varmiteer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Parker
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wctriumph View Post
    I do too. On one hand I do not like government compiled lists and on the other, we do need to be aware of "certain" persons.
    But what if you are "that person" with no credence
    DEMOCRACY is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner... LIBERTY is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome.... Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10

    Default

    The problem is the watch list has US persons on it. Collecting information and tracking foreign nationals has always been done and will continue. BUT the US citizens bullshit needs to stop. Make a case or fuck off. MED has it right. Suspend rights for terrorists, label those you oppose a terrorist, put them in fucking camps and take all their possessions.

    Jesus Christ... It's what our ancestors left other countries to get away from.
    Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.

    Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •