Atlanta Shooting

[CS1983]

This article has a few good points, but the overarching tone of it was "We dindu nuffin!"; it is, therefore, tone deaf (which is a theme for Maj. Yates in recent years).

For example, in Sacramento (https://i.imgur.com/NDglcu8.mp4), a man was falsely ID'd as having a warrant. Complies with police commands and stands with his hands on his head. Proceeds to then get drop kicked in the back by some tactical retard moron and that sets off a chain of events that leads someone who literally hadn't done anything being charged with resisting arrest. A false arrest, I might add (since, well, the warrant wasn't for him). What are people supposed to think when they see stuff like that? What is a person supposed to do when they are doing everything right and still get drop kicked in the kidneys?

What are people supposed to think when someone like Sgt. Charles Langley is playing some sick game of Simon Says Twister while continually telling the poor bastard he's going to get shot, and another cop on scene, Philip "Mitch" Brailsford, with a completely inappropriate engraving on his AR-15's dust cover (You're Fucked) unloads rounds when a drunk, sobbing, scared for his life person trips while crawling; when all they had to do was tell him to keep his hands up and secure him in cuffs the moment he was in the hall. How do any of us know we won't be the next Daniel Shaver, who did his best to comply under completely ridiculous and contradictory circumstances and was rewarded with being murdered? And then Brailsford not only gets away with it, he now gets a PTSD pension because he murdered someone. What the actual f...?

How do we know we won't be the next John Crawford? Given no time to drop a weapon before the responding officer opens fire, when we have no idea what's going on?

How do we know we won't be the next Philando Castile? Trying to get a wallet out and, having done our duty to inform the cop of the presence of a weapon, get lit up.

Such cops don't have the constitution to wear the uniform and interact with the public.

Are these incidents normative? Of course not. But they have a serious impact on the national consciousness and perception of police.

Just like 1 psychotic break for SSG Robert Bales ruined any possible good being done in Panjwayi Afghanistan, so too does every incident of police brutality, or general dickheadery, erode trust a little more. Every time a police officer approaches someone like an dickhead instead of a person. Every time a cop acts like his badge and gun somehow excuse him from a little human decency, they are the ones who have brought it to where it is now.

Police have a serious public relations problem, and frankly they largely brought it upon themselves. Departments across the nation seem to be about as self-aware as the cretins at 16th Street mall.

As my first Platoon Sergeant said, "You can have 1000 attaboys, but all it takes is one 'ah, shit'."

Just had this pop into my recommended.



Jocko making the same point: public relations are in need of fixing.

He also makes a great point about the "us vs them" problem. I'd tack on, in his example of cops who are nervous, etc., that the public is in the same boat. Just as any cop on any stop may be walking up to a car wondering if he's about to get into a gun fight, so too does a not insignificant portion of the public wonder if any interaction with police will lead to a fabricated arrest, injury, or death.

Know those videos they show in the academy of cops getting murdered on country roads, dash cam catching them screaming in terror as the criminal unloads into them at point blank range? Those are a double edged sword. They show a statistically unlikely reality in order to drill not being complacent. But they also propagandize and instill fear. Similarly, when people see videos of police brutality or cops murdering people who didn't do something so heinous as to deserve such treatment, or the cops are obviously escalating the situation, the same statistically unlikely reality is instilled in the mind of the public.

For those who would guffaw at the public having such a perception, I would pose the following question: if the statistically unlikely is enough to completely put away such fears, or serve as fodder for derision, then why do you carry a gun?

This is not a subject where we can have an "iron sight" argument. 99% of what we see is due to bad optics. So perhaps it would be a good idea for police nationwide to stop drinking their own Kool Aid and using CounterSniper™ optics style pounding of the table. They need some Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce level PR. Cus right now? Well, right now, the multi-colored, switchable reticle with military overrun on the box ain't looking so hot.

[Bailey Guns]

He also makes a great point about the "us vs them" problem. I'd tack on, in his example of cops who are nervous, etc., that the public is in the same boat. Just as any cop on any stop may be walking up to a car wondering if he's about to get into a gun fight, so too does a not insignificant portion of the public wonder if any interaction with police will lead to a fabricated arrest, injury, or death.

Know those videos they show in the academy of cops getting murdered on country roads, dash cam catching them screaming in terror as the criminal unloads into them at point blank range? Those are a double edged sword. They show a statistically unlikely reality in order to drill not being complacent. But they also propagandize and instill fear. Similarly, when people see videos of police brutality or cops murdering people who didn't do something so heinous as to deserve such treatment, or the cops are obviously escalating the situation, the same statistically unlikely reality is instilled in the mind of the public.

For those who would guffaw at the public having such a perception, I would pose the following question: if the statistically unlikely is enough to completely put away such fears, or serve as fodder for derision, then why do you carry a gun?

This is not a subject where we can have an "iron sight" argument. 99% of what we see is due to bad optics. So perhaps it would be a good idea for police nationwide to stop drinking their own Kool Aid and using CounterSniper? optics style pounding of the table. They need some Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce level PR. Cus right now? Well, right now, the multi-colored, switchable reticle with military overrun on the box ain't looking so hot.

Maybe. One huge difference is an officer generally has no idea who he's dealing with...avg Joe Citizen or multi-time convicted, violent felon. Joe Citizen knows he's dealing with an officer and the chances of that officer being "bad" are exceedingly slim. Joe Citizen probably has an interaction with police once a year, if that. An officer potentially contacts multiple people per shift. So I don't think it's quite the same. Not to mention it's all the rage for the media now to WANT to make police look bad so that's all we hear about. We don't get to see the hundreds of thousands of police/citizen contacts every single day that don't result in something negative aside from maybe a traffic ticket.

I don't think your "why do you carry a gun" comment makes sense nor does it stand up under scrutiny for the very reasons I pointed out.

I do agree law enforcement has a PR problem. I also think a lot of that problem is exacerbated by a biased media that takes all sorts of false ideas (like "hands up, don't shoot") and gives them credibility where none should exist.

That's not to say there aren't a few bad apples. We all know there are and we've seen examples recently. But they're pretty few and far between. They're like planes...one crash and it's all over the news with no mention of the hundreds of thousands that took off and landed safely.

[CS1983]

Maybe. One huge difference is an officer generally has no idea who he's dealing with...avg Joe Citizen or multi-time convicted, violent felon. Joe Citizen knows he's dealing with an officer and the chances of that officer being "bad" are exceedingly slim. Joe Citizen probably has an interaction with police once a year, if that. An officer potentially contacts multiple people per shift. So I don't think it's quite the same. Not to mention it's all the rage for the media now to WANT to make police look bad so that's all we hear about. We don't get to see the hundreds of thousands of police/citizen contacts every single day that don't result in something negative aside from maybe a traffic ticket.

I don't think your "why do you carry a gun" comment makes sense nor does it stand up under scrutiny for the very reasons I pointed out.

I do agree law enforcement has a PR problem. I also think a lot of that problem is exacerbated by a biased media that takes all sorts of false ideas (like "hands up, don't shoot") and gives them credibility where none should exist.

That's not to say there aren't a few bad apples. We all know there are and we've seen examples recently. But they're pretty few and far between. They're like planes...one crash and it's all over the news with no mention of the hundreds of thousands that took off and landed safely.

I think you are agreeing with my point, actually. I wasn't asking why cops carry guns. I know why. I support their carrying of firearms, as I support everyone's carrying of a firearm. I even support felons having firearms once they've done their time. I was asking why it's seen as sensible for regular joes to carry firearms based on a statistically unrealistic scenario but not understandable that another statistically unrealistic scenario (being killed or whatever by a cop) is seen as something to deride?

How many interactions are there a day between non-police citizens? An order of magnitude higher that police to non-police interactions, and probably less incidents of violence all considered. Ergo, why, then, do we carry? It's statistically unlikely any of us will ever *need* a firearm for self defense or protecting the well being of others. I've had exactly one situation in all my years. And it wasn't even for a person, but a pair of pit/rottweiler mixes that somehow got into our pasture in Oklahoma. Wasn't about to offer them snuggles and there was no way to escort them off the property without exposing myself to them and risking whatever aggression they might display, so they got shot.

But we carry for that *one* situation where we *might* need a firearm.

So, if that's acceptable and seen as OK, then why, when there are hundreds of videos of cops being dickheads, escalating situations, roughing people up, killing them over basically nothing but "the fear for their life" (and getting off of charges), is it unacceptable for the public to be weary of cops? Especially when they engage in tone deaf apologia for their department, themselves, etc. Great, good for them. They're either an example to follow, blind to reality (even if that reality is relegated to one or two in their dept), or lying.

Cops need to stop saying things like "a few bad apples". To certain segments of society, the main target for public relations improvement actually, it comes off as cheap and insincere. Rather, politicians and the people need to recognize that if they want a good police force which is respectable, dependable, and has the trust of the people, they need to do the things I said before (I think on another thread): increase pay, increase training, and bring down a hard hammer on anyone who violates the elevated position of trust and authority that police have.

For what cops are asked to do, and the increased dangers they face vs normal non-police interaction, they are simply not paid enough, aren't trained enough, and a lot of departments are too desperate to retain people that too much slides, in my opinion. The good ones leave, those with mental issues (narcissism, abusive, etc.) are all too often not weeded out as an ongoing process, and there is too much emphasis on actions which are really just local .gov money grabs. It sucks, cus the good ones do suffer without cause.

For example: https://coloradosprings.gov/police-d...alary-benefits
~86k at ~4 years. In my opinion, that's simply not enough.

EPSO is worse, and they're the ones running grow busts on cartel operations in eastern EPC, driving dangerous country roads, etc: https://www.epcsheriffsoffice.com/em...y-and-benefits
$80k as top.

If the police want to militarize, they should consider putting MRAPs and other doodads on the bottom of the list and learn from lessons overseas. Chiefly, don't be a dickhead without cause (and one's own ego is not sufficient). It tends to invite trouble which cascades in a fashion that results in dead people and a ruined relationship with those one is supposed to be protecting.