Open Discussion of all Things Electric Vehicle (aka EV) for Those Pro or Con, BE RESPECTFUL!

[Great-Kazoo]

If it was financially, as well as practical for our needs. I'd consider one. Till then, the price point, or limitations are not something i'd buy

[Jer]

If it was financially, as well as practical for our needs. I'd consider one. Till then, the price point, or limitations are not something i'd buy

Out of curiosity, are you talking new? If someone is buying a new car and looking for advice I'm not your guy because that deprecation hit you take is just brutal on ANY brand. If you're buying a new car (given the aforementioned rate of depreciation) you have FAR bigger financial concerns than annual fuel bill versus electricity bill.

That said, if you find a good deal on used one you can find a great car for a fraction of what they cost new. In our case, I've actually bought/sold seven of them used now. Not only do we not lose money but we actually make a few bucks. I realize that not everybody will want to go through this so I'm not suggesting it's for everyone.

I tell people that they can conservatively estimate paying 1/10th in electricity than they do gas to cover the same miles. That delta is even greater now that gas prices are crazy but it's a nice round number that makes mental estimations easy. We save right around $4k per year, per vehicle. I spread sheeted this out years ago when gas prices were $2.18/gal so you can only imagine how much we save now that that price has blown up. We also drive less than average so that savings would also go up relative how many miles you put on your vehicle. Bonus, you never ride that fuel price roller coaster again.

Naturally, whatever you determine to spend on the front end to acquire said vehicle will impact that "savings" figure but it's not nothing. Sock that money away for a "rainy day" and you can have a nice repair account built up by the time the 8-year battery pack and drive motor warranty expires should you need to replace them.

I wouldn't suggest buying an EV strictly for the gas/oil savings but... it's another entry in the "for" column for sure.

[DDT951]

The first pro i saw..

A Tesla roadster at bandimere laying waste to all manner of corvettes, mustangs, Camaros, etc.

When a 12.X pops at bandimere for real street car, that is quick.

[Jer]

The first pro i saw..

A Tesla roadster at bandimere laying waste to all manner of corvettes, mustangs, Camaros, etc.

When a 12.X pops at bandimere for real street car, that is quick.

Roadsters are ancient news. Hell, even my 2017 Model S is an old clapped out turd compared to what they make now. It'll do a respectable 0-60 blast in an eye-watering 2.28 seconds which earned it the fastest 0-60 Motor Trend Magazine had ever tested. Up until the Model S plaid came out last year. The quarter miles happens in 10's and all of those numbers are achievable in just about any condition by just about any driver. Perfectly happy coasting around town in silence too.

[Great-Kazoo]

Out of curiosity, are you talking new? If someone is buying a new car and looking for advice I'm not your guy because that deprecation hit you take is just brutal on ANY brand. If you're buying a new car (given the aforementioned rate of depreciation) you have FAR bigger financial concerns than annual fuel bill versus electricity bill.

That said, if you find a good deal on used one you can find a great car for a fraction of what they cost new. In our case, I've actually bought/sold seven of them used now. Not only do we not lose money but we actually make a few bucks. I realize that not everybody will want to go through this so I'm not suggesting it's for everyone.

I tell people that they can conservatively estimate paying 1/10th in electricity than they do gas to cover the same miles. That delta is even greater now that gas prices are crazy but it's a nice round number that makes mental estimations easy. We save right around $4k per year, per vehicle. I spread sheeted this out years ago when gas prices were $2.18/gal so you can only imagine how much we save now that that price has blown up. We also drive less than average so that savings would also go up relative how many miles you put on your vehicle. Bonus, you never ride that fuel price roller coaster again.

Naturally, whatever you determine to spend on the front end to acquire said vehicle will impact that "savings" figure but it's not nothing. Sock that money away for a "rainy day" and you can have a nice repair account built up by the time the 8-year battery pack and drive motor warranty expires should you need to replace them.

I wouldn't suggest buying an EV strictly for the gas/oil savings but... it's another entry in the "for" column for sure.

I will never buy a used EV, not when most are up in the mid 75-80K mileage wise, with cost of a replacement battery not worth opening my wallet for. The 2nd reason for not owning 1, leg room. Until a ev mfg makes a very friendly, ADA leg room unit, it can sit on the showroom.
3rd . Those vehicles work for a family of 2, who travel moderately light. For us a mini van with cargo topper is still not enough room, when we rarely return home empty handed.



I'll wait till i'm too old to do my own services & repairs on what we drive, now.

[Jer]

I will never buy a used EV, not when most are up in the mid 75-80K mileage wise, with cost of a replacement battery not worth opening my wallet for. The 2nd reason for not owning 1, leg room. Until a ev mfg makes a very friendly, ADA leg room unit, it can sit on the showroom.
3rd . Those vehicles work for a family of 2, who travel moderately light. For us a mini van with cargo topper is still not enough room, when we rarely return home empty handed.



I'll wait till i'm too old to do my own services & repairs on what we drive, now.

Never is a pretty definitive length of time. I'm curious why you take a stance of "never" on a used EV. You can get used EVs of any year and mileage just like any other car. The more miles, generally speaking, the more you save over what they cost new. Lots of people are terrified of used EVs because of the reasons you mentioned but they fail to factory how much you save by buying used in the first place. With Teslas, for instance, they come with an 8-year warranty that transfers free from owner to owner. I've found a sweet spot in cars that are 4-5 years old or so that still have half of that warranty remaining and some even have some of the bumper-to-bumper warranty remaining as well. So... you're covered for major repairs for several years on a vehicle that cost you a fraction of what they were new. If you buy a used one with 4-5 years left on the warranty and throw that $4-$5k in a savings account until your warranty is expired you'll have enough to buy a new one even at the highest price if it fails the day after the warranty expires. It won't and you also don't HAVE to drop $20k to replace the battery pack. There are lots of 3rd party options out there that can fix your Tesla battery pack for a couple of grand in most cases I've seen. Pretty high tech stuff they do too so I wouldn't sweat it not being a solid solution. In the meantime, that $20k is just building interest rather than burning up (literally) in the form of gas/oil costs.

No idea on the ADA leg room requirements but I know a Model S has lots of leg room. Much more than that of the Model 3 and just more room in general as well. You can educate me on this aspect as I know very little.

As for room, you'd be pretty surprised with how much storage is in a Tesla Model S. It's substantial. People are always amazed by how much crap we can cram into one if need be. Depending on what you plan to haul, it may even offer more/better storage than a minivan. This is more case by case basis but I can tell you that, with the rear seats folded flat, the rear storage area on a Model S is absurd since it's a hatchback even though it looks like a sedan. you also have the lower hatch storage and the frunk area too.

[Great-Kazoo]

Never is a pretty definitive length of time. I'm curious why you take a stance of "never" on a used EV. You can get used EVs of any year and mileage just like any other car. The more miles, generally speaking, the more you save over what they cost new. Lots of people are terrified of used EVs because of the reasons you mentioned but they fail to factory how much you save by buying used in the first place. With Teslas, for instance, they come with an 8-year warranty that transfers free from owner to owner. I've found a sweet spot in cars that are 4-5 years old or so that still have half of that warranty remaining and some even have some of the bumper-to-bumper warranty remaining as well. So... you're covered for major repairs for several years on a vehicle that cost you a fraction of what they were new. If you buy a used one with 4-5 years left on the warranty and throw that $4-$5k in a savings account until your warranty is expired you'll have enough to buy a new one even at the highest price if it fails the day after the warranty expires. It won't and you also don't HAVE to drop $20k to replace the battery pack. There are lots of 3rd party options out there that can fix your Tesla battery pack for a couple of grand in most cases I've seen. Pretty high tech stuff they do too so I wouldn't sweat it not being a solid solution. In the meantime, that $20k is just building interest rather than burning up (literally) in the form of gas/oil costs.

No idea on the ADA leg room requirements but I know a Model S has lots of leg room. Much more than that of the Model 3 and just more room in general as well. You can educate me on this aspect as I know very little.

As for room, you'd be pretty surprised with how much storage is in a Tesla Model S. It's substantial. People are always amazed by how much crap we can cram into one if need be. Depending on what you plan to haul, it may even offer more/better storage than a minivan. This is more case by case basis but I can tell you that, with the rear seats folded flat, the rear storage area on a Model S is absurd since it's a hatchback even though it looks like a sedan. you also have the lower hatch storage and the frunk area too.

Well since you started this "discussion" asking to be respectful


I'll be less than polite when it comes to someone like you. Who for some reason ISN'T TAKING NO FOR AN ANSWER!

I explained why they don't work for me. I then explained it again. Since you seem to be ignoring what i've said. I'll SAY IT ONE MORE TIME. I have no inclination, desire, or even ponder buying an EV. After admitting you "HAVE NO IDEA" on the leg room. You then come back with . Well the Model S has lots of leg room. I'm sure it does for someone WITH 2 LEGS. FFS Jer give it a rest. A normal ICE vehicle with moderate center console doesn't work for someone like me with a full prosthetic.

Yet here you are trying to sell me on something that a person with 2 legs has no clue, why it doesn't work.
So let's wrap this up.

1st question. What happened to that Tacoma, you fawned and preened over a few years ago


2nd question, actually a statement.

From reading your entire thread. It appears the only one who needs convincing how GREAT AN EV IS. Is you. Sounds like you either have buyers remorse, OR so ignorant and tone deaf to those who FOR PERSONAL REASONS could care less about you or your EV's.


That's about as respectful as i can be, without getting a time out.


BUT keep trying to sell me, or question my reasons WHY I WILL NOT BUY ONE AND.......... i'll slam the door on you like those pesky jehovah witness.

Who like you, WILL NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.

[Jer]

Well since you started this "discussion" asking to be respectful


I'll be less than polite when it comes to someone like you. Who for some reason ISN'T TAKING NO FOR AN ANSWER!

I explained why they don't work for me. I then explained it again. Since you seem to be ignoring what i've said. I'll SAY IT ONE MORE TIME. I have no inclination, desire, or even ponder buying an EV. After admitting you "HAVE NO IDEA" on the leg room. You then come back with . Well the Model S has lots of leg room. I'm sure it does for someone WITH 2 LEGS. FFS Jer give it a rest. A normal ICE vehicle with moderate center console doesn't work for someone like me with a full prosthetic.

Yet here you are trying to sell me on something that a person with 2 legs has no clue, why it doesn't work.
So let's wrap this up.

1st question. What happened to that Tacoma, you fawned and preened over a few years ago


2nd question, actually a statement.

From reading your entire thread. It appears the only one who needs convincing how GREAT AN EV IS. Is you. Sounds like you either have buyers remorse, OR so ignorant and tone deaf to those who FOR PERSONAL REASONS could care less about you or your EV's.


That's about as respectful as i can be, without getting a time out.


BUT keep trying to sell me, or question my reasons WHY I WILL NOT BUY ONE AND.......... i'll slam the door on you like those pesky jehovah witness.

Who like you, WILL NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.

Someone like me?

Not really sure how you took anything I said as trying to sell you anything. I was offering up the info I had positive and negative. Not sure how you read any of that as me trying to sell you anything or not taking no as an answer. Never even know I was asking a question.

If you have no desire to buy an EV or learn more about them... why are you in this thread. This thread is very clearly an open forum to discuss EVs and questions. It's not for people to just crap on everyone else.

All I was doing was giving you MY experience. So many people talk about "Teslas" as if they're all the same and don't realize that a Model 3 is NOT a Model S. They go look at a Model 3 and say "Teslas are smaller than expected" even though the Model S is absolutely cavernous. It barely fitrs through my single garage dour and is wider than my Tacoma. Some Model S cars DON'T EVEN HAVE A CENTER CONSOLE. I even told you I have no idea what the requirements are and asked you to share as I would love to learn. What the hell has a guy got to do to make people realize that I didn't post ANYTHING with a tone. I literally wanted to know. Those are the damn words I said!

I've been nothing but fully transparent with my posts from top to bottom. I'm an open book and that was the point of this thread. How the hell am I trying to sell you anything if I'm also fully transparent about the negatives too? Even your own post contradicts yourself over and over.

I really don't give a hobo's crap if you buy an EV. I just want people to reach that decision based on ACTUAL REAL INFORMATION and if it's not for you.... FINE! I really don't care. Seriously. I'm not selling anything and I'm not trying to convert anyone to something that won't work for them. That's all. this really isn't a difficult concept. I don't get it. Some people are so afraid of being convinced of something other than they hold to be true that they lash out against anyone who isn't echoing what they want to hear.

Hell man, I thought you knew me better than that but I guess not. I swear to god, this forum has gone so far downhill and even the people who I thought knew me are just rude and inconsiderate these days.

[Great-Kazoo]

Someone like me?

Not really sure how you took anything I said as trying to sell you anything. I was offering up the info I had positive and negative.

Not sure how you read any of that as me trying to sell you anything or not taking no as an answer.

Never even know I was asking a question.
.

How the hell am I trying to sell you anything ?

Your post / reply was to me text book used car salesman. OH if you only knew how much you can (insert pimping said vehicle) over another car. 3-4x after i tell the "salesperson"
I appreciate your assistance, BUT I'M JUST LOOKING.

[Martinjmpr]

And then there's the issue of those people who have to drive further than an electric charge can take them, and do so on a regular basis. Unless there's some kind of breakthrough in recharging technology that's always going to be a roadblock to mass EV adoption. For 95% of users, that won't be an issue.

HOWEVER, I think when you look at it that way you are committing the error of assuming that travel with EVs (or should be) exactly the same as travel with ICE vehicles.

There's no reason to think that it will. Nobody is on this board who was alive when horses were the normal means of transportation in the US. But when people went from animal-drawn travel to motor vehicles, they didn't just change what vehicles they used, they changed HOW they traveled.

Take a look at the Western immigrants: The Oregon Trail followed generally along rivers. It had to because they needed the water and the grass for their draft animals, and they needed the route to be relatively flat, as flat as possible. But then when they built the transcontinental railroad, they went straight across the desert. With no draft animals there was no longer any need to follow the river or to stay on flat ground that wagons could roll across.

I can foresee a few different ways around the long-distance issue. We may see, for example, a resurgence of rail travel where people put their electric vehicles onto a train and ride there, unloading when they get to their destination. This was actually not an uncommon way of traveling in the early part of the 20th century when the modern road system didn't exist and roads between cities were often impassable, especially in bad weather.

Or, we may see it become common that there will be fleets of ICE or hybrid long distance vehicles that people can rent when they need to do a long distance trip.

Finally, people may simply plan longer trips to have shorter "legs" so they can recharge along the way.

My point is that a major shift in technology like this often requires us to consider that it's not just one technological thing (the automobile) that is changing; rather the whole WAY in which we think of personal vehicle travel will likely change as well.