Open carry patriot confounds police

[Byte Stryke]

That's the whole point, isn't it? When I go out with my camera I take a copy of the laws regarding photography in public places with me because not too many cops seem to realize that I can photograph pretty much whomever and whatever I want.

I have a Digital recorder on my phone... turned on and sitting on the dash anytime I get pulled over. (Which is thankfully rare.)
If you don't think you need an accurate record of police interactions you are naive. LEOs are people too, Complete with Faults and Imperfections.

and we spell it with a Z Here Jake

[buffalobo]

+1
I hope that it's true about the training program.
What's wrong with your cat

Not sure what's wrong with the cat. It is not my cat, just a pic I ran accross surfing the net. I saved it cause everytime I see it I bust up laughing. I sure would like to know what it was that made that cat react that way and what will happen in the next frame.

[Irving]

I understand his point... but really? I don't understand why it was such a big deal to him. Seems more set up.... just walking around with the Main laws and the constitution? Really?

Yes really. Many people who open carry prepare before hand like this. It helps keep them out of jail and out of the hospital.

[hollohas]

I think the police handled themselves very professionally and politely. I agree he wasn't doing anything illegal. While technically the guy open carrying is correct, if a police officer walks up to me while I am open carrying, I'm not going to give him a hard time unless he gives me a hard time and these officers were clearly not giving him a hard time. After all, I am on the side of the good guys and I want them on my side. If someone calls the police about someone with a gun, they have to go check it out...why give them a hard time if your one of the good guys?

The officers in this audio gave the guy no reason to believe they planned on doing anything but writing their report, which they are required to do when sent out to a call. Why not work with them? Give them your ID, they run it and they say "Cool buddy, thanks for working with us, we'll see you around."

He wasn't ever really detained, they were just having a friendly conversation.

[Byte Stryke]

I think the police handled themselves very professionally and politely. I agree he wasn't doing anything illegal. While technically the guy open carrying is correct, if a police officer walks up to me while I am open carrying, I'm not going to give him a hard time unless he gives me a hard time and these officers were clearly not giving him a hard time. After all, I am on the side of the good guys and I want them on my side. If someone calls the police about someone with a gun, they have to go check it out...why give them a hard time if your one of the good guys?

The officers in this audio gave the guy no reason to believe they planned on doing anything but writing their report, which they are required to do when sent out to a call. Why not work with them? Give them your ID, they run it and they say "Cool buddy, thanks for working with us, we'll see you around."

He wasn't ever really detained, they were just having a friendly conversation.

And now you are in the system.
"Let's run the SN on your weapons, your DL and your SSN "Just to be safe"
Now your routine traffic stops will look like a scene from "SWAT".
Anytime you get pulled over it will be a newsworthy event.

"14 police officers and the anti-terrorist unit were involved in a traffic stop today when the driver of a vehicle known to have several a semi-automatic assault weapons failed to signal."


see you on the news!

[hollohas]

And now you are in the system.
"Let's run the SN on your weapons, your DL and your SSN "Just to be safe"
Now your routine traffic stops will look like a scene from "SWAT".
Anytime you get pulled over it will be a newsworthy event.

"14 police officers and the anti-terrorist unit were involved in a traffic stop today when the driver of a vehicle known to have several a semi-automatic assault weapons failed to signal."


see you on the news!

I hate to tell you, but if you have a DL and/or CCW you are already in the system.

And Oneguy67 posted here the Colorado Revised statute which says when LEOs can ask for ID and it also clearly says they cannot ask for SSN:

C.R.S. 16-3-103. Stopping of suspect:
(1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions. A peace officer shall not require any person who is stopped pursuant to this section to produce or divulge such person's social security number. The stopping shall not constitute an arrest.

I'm not saying the police should be able to ask anoyone for ID at anytime but they got a call about this guy and they went to check it out. No harm there. That's their job. I don't think open carrying a firearm gives anyone reason to believe you are about to commit a crime but you can bet the the police can/will use this statute as a basis to ask for your ID.

IMO open carry should be legal and a non-issue everywhere, but not giving an officer your ID when asked is just a shitty move for tin hat folks who think they will stay out of those darn police computers by refusing. You're in there already, help the good guys out. The police aren't out there to get you. The conversation in this situation would have been 2 minutes instead of 12 if he just gave his ID. Then these two officers could have gone on to something more productive. Anyone who is or personally knows any LEO knows that they ask for ID almost every time they make contact with someone on a call if they think they are breaking the law or not. You would be surprised how many bad guys they find that way.

The real problem here is not the police, it's that ordinary citizens think that open carry is a reason to call the police.

[psawjack]

I commend this guy for being cool, calm, and collected when speaking to the fuzz. I would like to shake his hand. It's a shame that the guy had to keep on repeating over and over again his rights to the cops before they finally took him seriously. If you focus on the wording of the cops you can hear how they were dancing around with their words never accusing him of anything and trying to come up with different BS ways to get his name ("I just need your name and address to file my report..." HAHA Those cops are a crafty bunch.

[hollohas]

And now you are in the system.
"Let's run the SN on your weapons, your DL and your SSN "Just to be safe"
Now your routine traffic stops will look like a scene from "SWAT".
Anytime you get pulled over it will be a newsworthy event.

"14 police officers and the anti-terrorist unit were involved in a traffic stop today when the driver of a vehicle known to have several a semi-automatic assault weapons failed to signal."


see you on the news!

PS - if you get pulled over for failure to signal you have no right to refuse to give ID because that would be a lawful stop...bad example...

[hip55]

I hate to tell you, but if you have a DL and/or CCW you are already in the system.

And Oneguy67 posted here the Colorado Revised statute which says when LEOs can ask for ID and it also clearly says they cannot ask for SSN:

C.R.S. 16-3-103. Stopping of suspect:
(1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions. A peace officer shall not require any person who is stopped pursuant to this section to produce or divulge such person's social security number. The stopping shall not constitute an arrest.

I'm not saying the police should be able to ask anoyone for ID at anytime but they got a call about this guy and they went to check it out. No harm there. That's their job. I don't think open carrying a firearm gives anyone reason to believe you are about to commit a crime but you can bet the the police can/will use this statute as a basis to ask for your ID.

IMO open carry should be legal and a non-issue everywhere, but not giving an officer your ID when asked is just a shitty move for tin hat folks who think they will stay out of those darn police computers by refusing. You're in there already, help the good guys out. The police aren't out there to get you. The conversation in this situation would have been 2 minutes instead of 12 if he just gave his ID. Then these two officers could have gone on to something more productive. Anyone who is or personally knows any LEO knows that they ask for ID almost every time they make contact with someone on a call if they think they are breaking the law or not. You would be surprised how many bad guys they find that way.

The real problem here is not the police, it's that ordinary citizens think that open carry is a reason to call the police.

You do realize that there are 4th and 5th amendments to the US Constitution, right?

[psawjack]

The real problem here is not the police, it's that ordinary citizens think that open carry is a reason to call the police.

I totally agree with this statement. Also, do I think that most cops would rather be hanging out at a bagel or doughnut shop instead of pursuing upstanding citizens walking around with firearms...ABSOLUTELY.