Colorado P80 type frame serialization

[Great-Kazoo]

What has happened negative to those that have the "free SBR"?

Just curious because my experience is that I have bunch of approved forms for SBRs without a tax stamp that have:

"Tax Exempt"

"Approved with conditions - See conditions on the last page of PDF"

Last page: "Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F"

What am I missing?

The same thing people are missing when they say, Well i don't have a problem waiting 3 days. A capricious and arbitrary "decision" enacted by a LE agency w/out an actual congressional vote, for 1. But hey, you got a free sbr.

What next "free offering" will people roll over for?

[buffalobo]

It's irony, we're missing irony. When we're around a group that has traditionally had interest in SBRs, and many people have voluntarily registered SBRs over the past decades this site has been alive....

Free SBRs are a conspiracy to register guns even if you would have voluntarily registered them as SBRs because you wanted an SBR. And when the law gets reversed, you still have a free SBR....

The difference is, they paid $200 to register theirs, you didn't pay $200, so yours is registration conspiracy, theirs is a cool SBR. (I guess?)

A lot of people innately disagree with anything that comes out of people they disagree with. Some people carpe diem and realize opportunities amid bad circumstances.

Few, if any people who took advantage of the free amnesty registration had any intention of SBR'ing their AR pistol before ATF arbitrarily outlawed braces to fabricate felons.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

[BPTactical]

I listened to a webinar hosted by the alphabet boys regarding the pistol brace debacle. One thing that concerned me in the discussion regarding tax stamps and “fees”.
The host made it very clear that the lifting of the $200 was a “forbearance” or “deference” on the fee, and not a forgiveness.

[Oscar77]

The same thing people are missing when they say, Well i don't have a problem waiting 3 days. A capricious and arbitrary "decision" enacted by a LE agency w/out an actual congressional vote, for 1. But hey, you got a free sbr.

What next "free offering" will people roll over for?

Sir:
I'll be honest, I'm not sure I follow your point of view.............. I'm one of the "free SBR" idiots............

So yes, the Govt (ATF) makes some foolish and illegal procedural declarations.
In it you can save 200$ filing fee (or whatever you want to call it) .......... and for me since I foolishly fell for their lies and mistruths, saved money as well as I registered an HK SP5 but didn't need to install US parts.
Well I wanted to register it anyways, I'm on several lists already and the brace was cheesy, so why not?
Done and done.
Now it looks like it all has been overturned............. So I've been harmed how?

How have I "rolled over?"
By taking advantage of their own nonsense, I didn't help them in any way.
I didn't give them money.
I didn't, by getting an SBR registered, help them or their cause.
By registering an SBR that way, I didn't give up my right to object or somehow justify their point of view.
They didn't successfully fight off the injunctions by saying.......... "Wait, xxxx number of people registered under the program............"

So how have I "rolled over?"
Instead I played their game and won.

[DDT951]

Sir:
I'll be honest, I'm not sure I follow your point of view.............. I'm one of the "free SBR" idiots............

So yes, the Govt (ATF) makes some foolish and illegal procedural declarations.
In it you can save 200$ filing fee (or whatever you want to call it) .......... and for me since I foolishly fell for their lies and mistruths, saved money as well as I registered an HK SP5 but didn't need to install US parts.
Well I wanted to register it anyways, I'm on several lists already and the brace was cheesy, so why not?
Done and done.
Now it looks like it all has been overturned............. So I've been harmed how?

How have I "rolled over?"
By taking advantage of their own nonsense, I didn't help them in any way.
I didn't give them money.
I didn't, by getting an SBR registered, help them or their cause.
By registering an SBR that way, I didn't give up my right to object or somehow justify their point of view.
They didn't successfully fight off the injunctions by saying.......... "Wait, xxxx number of people registered under the program............"

So how have I "rolled over?"
Instead I played their game and won.

I agree.

I got something out of it. I had SBRs before this, now I just have more that were tax exempt.

Who rolled over.

[Great-Kazoo]

Sir:
I'll be honest, I'm not sure I follow your point of view.............. I'm one of the "free SBR" idiots............

So yes, the Govt (ATF) makes some foolish and illegal procedural declarations.
In it you can save 200$ filing fee (or whatever you want to call it) .......... and for me since I foolishly fell for their lies and mistruths, saved money as well as I registered an HK SP5 but didn't need to install US parts.
Well I wanted to register it anyways, I'm on several lists already and the brace was cheesy, so why not?
Done and done.
Now it looks like it all has been overturned............. So I've been harmed how?

How have I "rolled over?"
By taking advantage of their own nonsense, I didn't help them in any way.
I didn't give them money.
I didn't, by getting an SBR registered, help them or their cause.
By registering an SBR that way, I didn't give up my right to object or somehow justify their point of view.
They didn't successfully fight off the injunctions by saying.......... "Wait, xxxx number of people registered under the program............"

So how have I "rolled over?"
Instead I played their game and won.

Call you what you want. I have no issue with those who chose to do so. My issue is a legal item, including all the ATF compliance letters mfg'ers received. Became illegal (by atf definition) overnight, based on the whims of some bureaucrat, to score brownie points with the current administration. Trump was no better regarding the bumpstock.

I saw no reason to comply, since i had no "braced" firearms. Being top heavy with tax stamps for the better part of 25 yrs, there was no need or desire to acquire one.

If it made you and others happy, great.

A few others and I on the forum know Nothing is Free. Especially if it's from the .gov, of all places.

[DDT951]

Few, if any people who took advantage of the free amnesty registration had any intention of SBR'ing their AR pistol before ATF arbitrarily outlawed braces to fabricate felons.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

Sometimes, when opportunity knocks, one must take it.

Maybe go to the way back time machine.

Remember the olden days when braces were in their infancy? https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...etter/download or this https://vpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2...Brace-2015.pdf They were a toy that was mostly ignored.

Here was ATF determination and why they were novelty much like bump stocks.

The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock,
and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor
has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary
to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked.

The Sig Brace Letter said clearly "NOT used as shoulder stock"

Then came the https://vpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2...ch-21-2017.pdf

Everyone in 2017 read the new ruling that incidental, sporadic, or situational misuse (that is what the 2017 letter was addressing) did constitute a redesign and they reverse the interpretations that they had the previous 5 years.

Everyone then saw a way to have an "almost SBR" without all the hassles.

So I would agree, most bought braced pistols with the intent of having a what was similar to an SBR without paperwork.

But they ATF has changed their collective minds over the last 10 years if pistol braces are SBR or not when the pistol (or it is a rifle) when shouldered.

I think if we are intellectually honest, pistol braces were used after the 2017 letter as a method to have an "almost SBR". Everyone on you tub showing shouldering the pistols with braces didnt help the cause.

[DDT951]

Call you what you want. I have no issue with those who chose to do so. My issue is a legal item, including all the ATF compliance letters mfg'ers received. Became illegal (by atf definition) overnight, based on the whims of some bureaucrat, to score brownie points with the current administration. Trump was no better regarding the bumpstock.

I saw no reason to comply, since i had no "braced" firearms. Being top heavy with tax stamps for the better part of 25 yrs, there was no need or desire to acquire one.

If it made you and others happy, great.

A few others and I on the forum know Nothing is Free. Especially if it's from the .gov, of all places.

They are not always "legal" in how they were used. Unit 2017 there was "no shouldering".

But with regards to .gov... not even death is free....

[Oscar77]

Call you what you want. I have no issue with those who chose to do so. My issue is a legal item, including all the ATF compliance letters mfg'ers received. Became illegal (by atf definition) overnight, based on the whims of some bureaucrat, to score brownie points with the current administration. Trump was no better regarding the bumpstock.

I saw no reason to comply, since i had no "braced" firearms. Being top heavy with tax stamps for the better part of 25 yrs, there was no need or desire to acquire one.

If it made you and others happy, great.

A few others and I on the forum know Nothing is Free. Especially if it's from the .gov, of all places.

Sir:
And you are right............ there have been alot of laws or in this case actions by the ATF that I (and since you want to make this a "group" argument) and "we" do not agree with.
Many are truly illegal or atleast without any sort of legal merit.

And "WE" can all agree with that but then maybe I'm not part of the secret society of this forum that you are.

Likewise "WE" can all agree that "nothing is free" but what does that have to do with the question at hand............. How have "WE" the stupid morons, who took advantage of a free tax stamp, helped the Govt in anyway?

"WE" would like to know.................. or is that information for just "you and a few others" on this forum?

In the mean time......... maybe I misunderstood your comments, so please just answer the question................ "How have "WE" the stupid morons, who took advantage of a free tax stamp, helped the Govt in anyway?"

[Great-Kazoo]

Sir:
And you are right............ there have been alot of laws or in this case actions by the ATF that I (and since you want to make this a "group" argument) and "we" do not agree with.
Many are truly illegal or atleast without any sort of legal merit.

And "WE" can all agree with that but then maybe I'm not part of the secret society of this forum that you are.

Likewise "WE" can all agree that "nothing is free" but what does that have to do with the question at hand............. How have "WE" the stupid morons, who took advantage of a free tax stamp, helped the Govt in anyway?

"WE" would like to know.................. or is that information for just "you and a few others" on this forum?

In the mean time......... maybe I misunderstood your comments, so please just answer the question................ "How have "WE" the stupid morons, who took advantage of a free tax stamp, helped the Govt in anyway?"

The only one calling anyone who took advantage of the free stamp "stupid morons" is you. Either that or your reading comprehension is lacking. There is no secret society on this forum, so get over the butthurt on that one.

As for helping the government. With the mentality of said agencies. All one needs to is say to their supervisor is. Hey, look at X who took advantage of the amnesty program. If they own the brace, what other "questionable" gun parts do we think they have? You handed them a list of names, guns and serial #'s on a platter. Until a crime is committed with a firearm, that info stays with the ffl. At least in some states, others plaster their names in the local paper.

Call it tinfoil or whatever one wants. The gov has never been satisfied with compliance, till it's compliance on their terms.

Biggest example is R.I.C.O. originally enacted as a "tool" against 1% - AKA as outlaw MC gangs. Some said if passed will be abused. OH NO NEVER was the reply. within 5 yrs of passing KoC card games were raided using RICO as the means to arrest and confiscate. As were many other org's with confiscation of $$ and property the end game.

Again, I have no issue with what you or others did. I personally, if owning a brace, would not have done anything. Let's see how it plays out the next 2-5 yrs, depending on if there's a regime change after the 24 elections. As well as what SCOTUS rules down the road.