Something that bugs me...

[Claemore]

Just do a search for "Bill of* Sale" on here and read the 3 page thread that's already been gone over more than once.

I was asking about Driver's Licenses, not Bills of Sale.

[Dr_Fwd]

as someone said it already - "If you don't like the sellers requests - don't buy it."

[theGinsue]

I was asking about Driver's Licenses, not Bills of Sale.

Understood, but in the thread that Stuart was pointing you to we had a lively running debate over the use of BoS, ID's etc.

It's really a good thread to read through to see how others on this site think and what to expect of people you may wish to do business with in the future.

In the site rules, under the Trading Post section, item a. For Sale / Trade / Wanted, rule iv states "iv. Be honest and accurate." It has always been my belief that this, in part, means that any individual with an item for sale or trade is responsble for stating any sale terms up front in the OP, specifically if a BoS is desired. This will allow those who don't wish to agree to those terms to move along without further delay and there should be no reason for anyone to have ruffled feathers.

On the other hand, if I were asked to simply show (no information recording) my CO DL at the time of sale and this wasn't identified up front, I wouldn't have any heartburn providing it for viewing. I would, however, inform the seller that it would be wise to identify that requirement up front to avoid possible issues in later deals.

[Irving]

You were already corrected long ago about the driver's license issue. Now you are getting worked up over BoS and running your mouth about things you don't know anything about. BPTactical is NOT a dealer to the best of my knowledge. If you want to have a teenage girl attitude while you bitch about something, but can't handle any commentary, then stick to an online diary with the rest of the middle school girls. This is a discussion forum. Don't ask questions if you don't want input. The only person so far to have been insulting in this thread so far is you. Take your attitude some where else. We've heard it all before and no one is looking forward to taking attitude from some jerk who is mad about something that he had wrong from the beginning.

[BPTactical]

Just do a search for "Bill of* Sale" on here and read the 3 page thread that's already been gone over more than once.

Agreed Stu but I would like to clarify a couple of points.

Pickenup-
Perhaps my comment was vague or misunderstood. "Knowingly" is more accurate of a term.
I am well aware that a transfer between private parties carries no legal obligation for documentation and or record keeping. I was speaking directly from the standpoint of the seller showing due diligence to acertain that the prospective buyer does not fall under the "Prohibited Persons" category.
Hence the written affirmation that they do not fall into that category on a Bill of Sale.
CYA.


Claemore- With all due respect- If you do not like the answers you get maybe you should not ask the question.
I am not a retail dealer of firearms. I have worked in the retail end of firearms though. I have my FFL for Gunsmithing purposes only and conduct no transfers.
On the rare occasions where I have done some horse trading it is a firearm from my personal collection and although it is recommended for a FFL holder to keep a record of personal firearms it is not required.
I do out of choice for CYA purposes.
From your original post:

I look around on firearms ads both here and at Colorado gun market, and something that I see a lot of is: bring a Colorado ID, or the seller won't sell. What's the deal with this?

You asked the question and I simply provided you with some reasons why a seller may be wise to require ID, affirm they are not selling to a "Prohibited Person" and a Bill of Sale.
Again-CYA

Because BPtactical is a dealer, they feel that we should be held to the same standards. That's bullshit.

At no point in time did I ever elude to this and your statement is baseless.
What you do is of no concern to me.
You are fully entitled to conduct your transactions your way how you see fit.
You are also entitled to deal with the potential risks involved where you have no documentation to substantiate your aquisition and or disposal of a firearm.

You made the statement that you are ignorant of some of the regulations.
Most all of us here are happy to help educate you with them if you are a willing student.
Or you are welcome to read the Federal Regulations here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/



I saw you mention "Ex Cop" in an earlier post.
Is this Dan Maes?

[Byte Stryke]

Agreed Stu but I would like to clarify a couple of points.

Pickenup-
Perhaps my comment was vague or misunderstood. "Knowingly" is more accurate of a term.
I am well aware that a transfer between private parties carries no legal obligation for documentation and or record keeping. I was speaking directly from the standpoint of the seller showing due diligence to acertain that the prospective buyer does not fall under the "Prohibited Persons" category.
Hence the written affirmation that they do not fall into that category on a Bill of Sale.
CYA.


Claemore- With all due respect- If you do not like the answers you get maybe you should not ask the question.
I am not a retail dealer of firearms. I have worked in the retail end of firearms though. I have my FFL for Gunsmithing purposes only and conduct no transfers.
On the rare occasions where I have done some horse trading it is a firearm from my personal collection and although it is recommended for a FFL holder to keep a record of personal firearms it is not required.
I do out of choice for CYA purposes.
From your original post:


You asked the question and I simply provided you with some reasons why a seller may be wise to require ID, affirm they are not selling to a "Prohibited Person" and a Bill of Sale.
Again-CYA


At no point in time did I ever elude to this and your statement is baseless.
What you do is of no concern to me.
You are fully entitled to conduct your transactions your way how you see fit.
You are also entitled to deal with the potential risks involved where you have no documentation to substantiate your aquisition and or disposal of a firearm.

You made the statement that you are ignorant of some of the regulations.
Most all of us here are happy to help educate you with them if you are a willing student.
Or you are welcome to read the Federal Regulations here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/



I saw you mention "Ex Cop" in an earlier post.
Is this Dan Maes?

I have to COMPLETELY agree with BPTactical on this.
everone has their varying degrees of CYOA, but Honestly, if I ask you for a state ID to cover my ass on Residency and age laws and you Balk at it.

HUGE RED FLAG

I wont sell you a slingshot... and maybe you are wanted and have a bounty on you somewhere so let's ask the Local PD.


Fuck, Most people are required to show a State ID/DL when Paying for a Dinner on a CC over $50.

[BadShot]

Kind of a shame this thread spun out in to folks having a need to throw jabs. Lord knows I get my feathers ruffled from time to time and pop off out of frustration... BUT

Can we step this back down a few notches or just kill the thread?

[StagLefty]

I think that this is insulting. A. Not everyone on either of these sites say in their posts that a DL is required. B. A lot of people will follow a bandwagon, or are fearful of the government and try to be too helpful to the government tough guys. As an ex-cop, I know this to be true. How many people do you think, in the hundred or so stops I made said no to a vehicle search? I'll tell you, NONE. Following your logic, if I found a couple of websites where the majority of the posters said they were vampires, I should assume that vampires exist.????

I admitted to ignorance of that law. It was a while ago that I read, or was told the statutes, and obviously I read it wrong, or the person I heard it from told me wrong. I merely continued to believe what I already thought to be true. I don't need you to get on here and attempt to be offensive.

Then how do you know if the person that's buying your firearm is
1)a resident
2)of legal age
without asking for a DL ?
insulting ? pretty thin skinned

[hip55]

I have no problem asking for or showing my Colorado lD to verify that I (or the buyer) am a resident.

BOSs on the other hand I avoid as I believe it's not a CYA necessity. If a seller wants one then I just move on, just like I'd do if a seller overprices an item because it's a FTF sale.

No big deal in any way.

[BlasterBob]

Then how do you know if the person that's buying your firearm is
1)a resident
2)of legal age
without asking for a DL ?

Pretty well says it all! Seller with the ID requirement is just making a serious attempt to cover his ass in the event "something" happens later on with the firearm he has just sold. Anyone feeling uncomfortable with showing an ID to prove residency and age just should not proceed with the buy. The residency/age issue is a FEDERAL thing. I also fail to see why the fear of having a bill of sale made for the transfer/transaction. That paper certainly would never be seen by anyone else unless the firearm is involved in some illegal activity and traced back to the seller. If I SOLD a firearm and completed a bill of sale, why would I EVER let anyone see the damn thing unless ordered to by the court system. It's not like a Form 4473 that HAS to be eventually turned over to the BATFE when the FFL let's his license expire and/or discontinues his business.