Forming a Trust for NFA items

[DeusExMachina]

Bumping this.

I was reading this guide: http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy...O_signoff.html

And I'm unclear as to what you send to the BATF. Anyone who has done it, chime in?

Earlier in the page he says you send the Certificate of Trust, then later says: "Update: I have heard that the BATFE no longer accepts certificates of trust with a Form 1 or Form 4. You must send in the declaration of trust instead." The Certificate of Trust is the document stating that the trust exists and who is on it. The declaration of trust shows your possessions and who they are to be left to, etc. Seems odd that the BATF needs to see the junk you're leaving to family and friends.

But does that mean you send just the Declaration, or both?

[SAnd]

I did a transfer in March, 2010. The ATF required a copy of the Declaration Of Trust with the inventory statement with it.

Just my experience.

[DeusExMachina]

I did a transfer in March, 2010. The ATF required a copy of the Declaration Of Trust with the inventory statement with it.

Just my experience.

With the inventory? Are you referring to the "Assignment of Property" sheet, or Schedule A?

[SAnd]

The Schedule A. They want to see the whole trust document not something that says you have a trust. The whole trust Declaration of Trust would include all the attachments, including the Schedule A.

[DeusExMachina]

The Schedule A. They want to see the whole trust document not something that says you have a trust. The whole trust Declaration of Trust would include all the attachments, including the Schedule A.

Right. Mine also has this after schedule A:

Assignment of Property
I, Deus Ex Machina, as grantor of the Deus Ex Machina Revocable Living Trust
dated ____________________, __________, hereby assign and transfer all of my rights,
title and interest in the following property:
1. The contents of the safe at <address>.
2. All furniture and household items kept in <address>.
to Deus Ex Machina, as trustee of the Deus Ex Machina Revocable Living Trust
dated ____________________, __________.
Executed at ____________________, _______________, on ____________________,
__________.
___________________________________________
Deus Ex Machina, Grantor and Trustee

Is that something I should include?

[SAnd]

Sorry, I have no idea.

I was told the trust isn't real until it owns something. I stuck a couple appliances in my Schedule A to make sure it was legal. After that the only thing I have added are NFA items. If you're only doing this for NFA purposes I don't see that you would need it as long as something is listed in the Schedule A. I don't have an Assignment of Property like you have. My trust just says everything is listed my Schedule A.

I would be consistent though. If you include it once I would include always unless you document it going away.

I'm not a lawyer and I am willing to gamble that I might have picked up some misinformation.

[DeusExMachina]

From some samples I saw it was the Schedule A now that I look again.

I'll probably include absolutely everything just to be sure...I'd really only like to include the certification but since they need to see my declaration and beneficiaries and property anyway, why not?

[SAnd]

I agree on the Certification but unfortunately they get to make the rules.

The part I hate the most is the wait. But that's what happens when you're dealing with the government.

Have Fun.

[mrfish83]

I just went throught this. The following was required:
1) Copy of the trust and any admendments (not just the certification)
2) Schedule of trust property - I listed the NFA item purchased for the given stamp/paperwork (altough it technically wasn't the trust's property yet)

I did NOT submit any of the following;
1) Citizenship statement
2) Fingerprints or photos
3) LE approval

Mine was approved without having property listed in the trust, other than the item for which the application was for. I've heard it's a 'chicken or the egg' problem, but the ATF doesn't seem to care these days. You could always list some other property on your schedule, such as $5.

[DeusExMachina]

I just went throught this. The following was required:
1) Copy of the trust and any admendments (not just the certification)
2) Schedule of trust property - I listed the NFA item purchased for the given stamp/paperwork (altough it technically wasn't the trust's property yet)

I did NOT submit any of the following;
1) Citizenship statement
2) Fingerprints or photos
3) LE approval

Mine was approved without having property listed in the trust, other than the item for which the application was for. I've heard it's a 'chicken or the egg' problem, but the ATF doesn't seem to care these days. You could always list some other property on your schedule, such as $5.

Did you include the certification too? I thought you had to do citizenship statement anyway, even with a trust?

I heard listing the item not yet purchased wasn't right. Though, technically you did purchase it, you just aren't in legal possession of it yet. Hmm.