Islam on capital Hill

[CMP_5.56]

So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?

Okay, one thing people need to get over is Islam is not a true religion. It is a societal belief system that includes It's own government. Sharia and islam are one in the same, not parts you can pick and choose from. If you are a Muslim, you live by sharia, plain and simple. Under rule of law, which is what our country is supposed to be, if you live within the law you are protected by the law, if you choose to live outside the law you lose that protection.

You can not stand up for something that goes against the base rights of our nation and say it is protected by our rights. The basis for all of our rights is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Islam takes away that which is the fundamental right of every human being. When taking the hand of a thief, or stoning a cheating partner, or beheading an infidel, you are going against the principles this nation was
on.

Making an argument that you have to give people all the rights of the bill of rights and our nations constitution, without having to live by the laws of our nation, you are making a dangerous statement. Under that mentality, saying everyone has the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, with out the responsibility to live under the law, is the same as saying, well old Bundy and Dahmer were doing what makes them happy, so let em do it.

All of our rights come with the responsibility to live within our rules and not to deny those rights to others. If you were a Muslim woman, your tone might change about this argument.

[CMP_5.56]

this is not true. only certain sects believe in the whole shebang, including sharia law. i know lots of muslims who don't give a rat's ass about it. it is true, however, that if people start to disobey the laws, then that over powers their right to practice their own religion. they can have whatever societal beliefs they want as long as they are within the rules already established. as far as separation of church and state, it really doesn't apply here. there are small groups that want sharia law to be enacted within our government but that will never, ever happen. its a pipe dream of extremists (in this sense i don't mean bombers, just extremists). i am a firm believer in christ, but there are nut jobs on our side too. its true they don't try to blow people up, but they have since the beginning of time tried to put christian beliefs and religion at the heart of the government. many would love it if the government declared christianity the STATE religion. groups still push for it today.

and for the record, separation of church and state was never meant, originally, to mean government entities and officials cannot practice their religion in a government building or setting, it simply meant that the government is not allowed to sanction a state religion and make laws about what religion everyone must practice. it was changed, later, to what people perceive it to be today.

I do understand what separation of church and state is. But in Islam, the church and state is one in the same. Just because people haven't started beheading infidels in public does not mean they are not practicing Sharia. There are many cases where someone on trial for commiting an act of violence has used Sharia as their defense. And I'm sure the mutilations that happen to Muslim women are practiced behind closed doors.

You day you know many Muslims that are good people, and i know a few as well, but in all honesty, I don't trust them because the base of their religion goes against my rights. Plain and simple.

[Ronin13]

Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.

Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.

Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.

While true, modern Christianity talks about what they believe will happen to those who do not believe in God and accept Jesus and all that. Islam preaches what the followers of Allah and Mohammad should DO to those that do not believe what they do. Kind of a pressure to act on non-believers who do not subscribe to their sick ideology.

[CMP_5.56]

Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.

Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.

Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.

Yes, Christianity does believe that if you choose to live a life outside its beliefs you will suffer consequences after life for that choice. So do many other religions. Nowhere does it say that you will be robbed of your life for making that choice. The one thing you're not seeing is Christianity does not take away your free will, as a matter of fact it is the focus of the religion that we were created with free will. Islam, does not want free will, and it takes it from all of its followers.

[nynco]

While true, modern Christianity talks about what they believe will happen to those who do not believe in God and accept Jesus and all that. Islam preaches what the followers of Allah and Mohammad should DO to those that do not believe what they do. Kind of a pressure to act on non-believers who do not subscribe to their sick ideology.

what do you think Evangelical Christians are or do? They just don't strap bombs on themselves (yet) see Norway.

[Ronin13]

what do you think Evangelical Christians are or do? They just don't strap bombs on themselves (yet) see Norway.

Evangelical Christians are not screaming out "Death to the non-belivers." At least they're not making their voices heard. Islam preaches, and this is conservative Islam I'm talking about, that the infidel is a viper and must be hunted down and killed as such. How do you kill a viper? Cut off it's head. Sounds strangely familiar, just ask Daniel Pearl, oh wait, you can't. I haven't seen any Christians film cutting off peoples heads, blowing up military convoys, and screaming "Holy war on those who don't believe what we believe!"

[nynco]

Evangelical Christians are not screaming out "Death to the non-belivers." At least they're not making their voices heard. Islam preaches, and this is conservative Islam I'm talking about, that the infidel is a viper and must be hunted down and killed as such. How do you kill a viper? Cut off it's head. Sounds strangely familiar, just ask Daniel Pearl, oh wait, you can't. I haven't seen any Christians film cutting off peoples heads, blowing up military convoys, and screaming "Holy war on those who don't believe what we believe!"

Not all, but let me tell you, there are some loons out there. I also think that Islamic extremists are a huge problem too. I just think its counter productive to treat all Muslims like they are. Islam is in their dark ages. While fighting fire with fire might win temporary battles, eventually you have to figure out a way to end the firefight. So unless you are willing to go out and commit genocide on 2 billion people..... what do you do?

[Jer]

Not all, but let me tell you, there are some loons out there. I also think that Islamic extremists are a huge problem too. I just think its counter productive to treat all Muslims like they are. Islam is in their dark ages.

Trying to compare a handful of religious zealots to the Nation if Islam is wrong. One hand is a few crazies and the other are millions doing exactly what the religion says to do.

While fighting fire with fire might win temporary battles, eventually you have to figure out a way to end the firefight. So unless you are willing to go out and commit genocide on 2 billion people..... what do you do?

What do you do? You don't permit them free reign of your country that's their self professed #1 enemy so they can actively add recruits from your people. You preserve your government and your way of life against ALL enemies and this includes the painfully obvious (to most) ones.

Keep in mind that the 1st amendment protecting someone's right to freedom of religion w/o persecution wouldn't exist in Sharia law which is what would rule the nation if Islam were to take over the way their scripture teaches. Ironic, don't ya think?

[nynco]

Keep in mind that the 1st amendment protecting someone's right to freedom of religion w/o persecution wouldn't exist in Sharia law which is what would rule the nation if Islam were to take over the way their scripture teaches. Ironic, don't ya think?

Freedom of Religion does exist in America and the last thing I want to do is for this nation become more like the bad things you see in them. Until beliefs become action there is no law broken. We should never prosecute someone for thoughts alone. Its downright Orwellian. So until the Muslim breaks a law, they have just as much right as you do to the 1st Amendment.

[Ronin13]

Freedom of Religion does exist in America and the last thing I want to do is for this nation become more like the bad things you see in them. Until beliefs become action there is no law broken. We should never prosecute someone for thoughts alone. Its downright Orwellian. So until the Muslim breaks a law, they have just as much right as you do to the 1st Amendment.

Great logic... let's arrest someone after they martyr themselves with a nuclear weapon outside the Capitol in D.C.! Let's not arrest and investigate a group of guys claiming they are the tip of the sword for Jihad in America, but they haven't acted yet! Oh and let's not forget, the Koran teaches them to lie in wait until they are strong enough to defeat their enemies, it's happened before, hence why until Post-WWII Muslim Arabs ruled Jerusalem, and not the European Christians. So you keep avoiding facing the problem until their knife is slowly entering your back. Me, I'm going to continue to struggle with this massive conundrum because I don't want to become what we formed this country against, but then again if nothing is done we will lose once they gain enough strength. France is already dealing with it, in just 15 years they WILL become an Islamic republic- there are figures out there and if you look at the Muslim population increase from the last 10 years you'll see it's only a matter of time until Muslims are the majority there.