What would you change?

[MED]

Sorry Ronin......... but the nation got better from the 1940s till the early 80s. Lord knows we can't give credit to Hoover for the improvement. After the 80s Reagan had changed everything. That is when the middle class started to shrink all the way to the point of economic collapse for the whole nation. Up is not down.

you completely miss that this nation was collapsing in the 1970s and losing the Cold War. The Soviets were planning a full collapse of the United States within 10 years. The nation did a 180 in the 80s resulting in two extremely successful decades and the collapse of the Soviet Union including the fall of the Berlin Wall. If you do not take these factors into consideration, you have your head in the sand.

I find it ironic that the United States is now on the tail end of the space race and must charter flights to space with Russia...pretty pathetic! If you knew anything of the 60s and 70s, you would understand how disturbing this is. JFK would be ashamed!

[Ronin13]

Sorry Ronin......... but the nation got better from the 1940s till the early 80s. Lord knows we can't give credit to Hoover for the improvement. After the 80s Reagan had changed everything. That is when the middle class started to shrink all the way to the point of economic collapse for the whole nation. Up is not down.

So the 1970's never happened? We sure didn't have an oil crisis that caused lines at the pump. [roll1]
We had economic surpluses in the 1990's thanks to Reagan, and being in the middle class now it's been something that's been eaten away at since Clinton, not primarily Reagan. Obama now is just trying to sink this ship and that's why we're where we are now.

[MED]

So the 1970's never happened? We sure didn't have an oil crisis that caused lines at the pump. [roll1]
We had economic surpluses in the 1990's thanks to Reagan, and being in the middle class now it's been something that's been eaten away at since Clinton, not primarily Reagan. Obama now is just trying to sink this ship and that's why we're where we are now.

The first two years of the Clinton administration were a disaster, but he was put in check by congress the remaining six years resulting in a pretty moderate six years. I absolutely hated Janet Reno and was disturbed by Jocelyn Elders. His Supreme Court pics were horrible. His gun legislation was REALLY horrible. The successes and mistakes of 1994 to 2000 were shared. After he left office, we have been marred by 9/11 consequences. After some good and bad, we are stuck with the absolute worst person imaginable in the White House. As awful as it sounds, I really really wish that Hillary won the DNC nomination; the country would be far better right now. The first two years of Obama, Pelosi, and Reed were a disgrace.

[Ronin13]

The first two years of the Clinton administration were a disaster, but he was put in check by congress the remaining six years resulting in a pretty moderate six years. I absolutely hated Janet Reno and was disturbed by Jocelyn Elders. His Supreme Court pics were horrible. His gun legislation was REALLY horrible. The successes and mistakes of 1994 to 2000 were shared. After he left office, we have been marred by 9/11 consequences. After some good and bad, we are stuck with the absolute worst person imaginable in the White House. As awful as it sounds, I really really wish that Hillary won the DNC nomination; the country would be far better right now. The first two years of Obama, Pelosi, and Reed were a disgrace.

Indeed! The current economic situation is not being made any better by Obama's plans, and he seems like a rather stubborn little prick with all these negotiations. He just doesn't like to listen to reason- throwing gov't money at the issue will not bring us out of debt!

[Ranger]

What the leftists don't want you to hear is that Obama is blaming Bush for everything - ahhh, but don't forget that democrats had the majority in congress for a large part of Bush's terms and if you look at the recession we can put a lot of it (not all) on those majorities. Not to say republicans didn't spend like the country was their little piggy bank but they paid for that mistake by getting replaced by dems who spent even more!

[nynco]

What the leftists don't want you to hear is that Obama is blaming Bush for everything - ahhh, but don't forget that democrats had the majority in congress for a large part of Bush's terms and if you look at the recession we can put a lot of it (not all) on those majorities. Not to say republicans didn't spend like the country was their little piggy bank but they paid for that mistake by getting replaced by dems who spent even more!

I started another thread to answer please see that. I blame Obama for being Bushes 3rd term. So yes Bush is at fault. But so is Obama for doing the same crap as Bush.

[Ranger]

I started another thread to answer please see that. I blame Obama for being Bushes 3rd term. So yes Bush is at fault. But so is Obama for doing the same crap as Bush.

I TOTALLY appreciate that but one thread battle with you is enough for me today. Besides, I would hate to debunk EVERYTHING you believe in, it wouldn't be very Christian of me. On a side note, though, my post count is increasing and I'll be a Grand Master Know It All like Byte in another week at this rate!

[MED]

I didn't mean for this thread to get hijacked into a political war.

To summarize. The constitution needs to be amended/clarified to eliminate the court's interpretation of the Commerce Clause. In doing so, programs such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Universal Health Care, etc. etc. would be required to go through the amendment process establishing consensus rather then establishing entitlements through political will. The Federal Government must have limits. Unfortunately, those limits no longer exist, which opens the door to eventual dictatorship and collapse. Remember, those who formed our government were interested in protecting the minority not imposing the will of the majority.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

[nynco]

Doesn't Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Universal Health Care, protect the minority in this nation too?

[MED]

Doesn't Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Universal Health Care, protect the minority in this nation too?

This is a value statement, which may or may not be shared.

I won't talk about the merit of any program, but I will talk about my original post. It is wrong to create an entitlement program through political will. An amendment process was placed in the constitution for a reason, and it is difficult to build consensus. If something is so important, then it should follow that process. Creating a program through a bully pulpit through political will is WRONG! If you believe in limitless government, then you are OK with trading your freedoms based on what others deem necessary. I believe in the original intent of the constitution where there were limits and boundaries.

...remember, 'for the greater good' is relative depending on those who enforce it.