$4.2 ba-ba-ba-billion...

[Bailey Guns]

We filed our 2004 return and got our refund.

We filed our 2005 return and the IRS held our refund stating there was a "problem" with the return. No explanation what the problem was.

We filed our 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 returns, with refunds due on each. We never got the refunds. We'd been dealing with trying to figure out what the "problem was for 5 years at this point. The IRS owed us almost $20,000 in unpaid returns.

In Dec 2009 the IRS claimed we never filed our 2004 returns. That was the "problem" that had been plaguing us for all those years. They gave us 30 days to prove we filed our 2004 returns. After about 10 days had passed they sent us a letter stating they were going to seize almost $12,000 from my wife's bank accounts. We complained and for the second time faxed a copy of our 2004 returns.

They seized about $6200 from my wife's account.

So, over the subsequent 12 months, untold number of faxes and phone calls and uncooperative and uncaring "customer service" people, we finally discovered the "problem".

In 2004, after 15 years of filing jointly with me as the primary taxpayer, we filed jointly again but listed my wife as the primary tax payer. Don't recall why, that's just the way it turned out. At any rate, it completely fucking baffled the IRS computers and people that run them because they can't match up SSAN if you send them in differently than you did in the past. I know...it didn't make sense to us, either.

But we were appointed an IRS Advocate who actually helped us to resolve the issue. We started to get the refund checks and the money seized from my wife's bank account was returned.

We got the last check, our 2009 refund, in March of this year. We've finally been paid all the money they owe us.

And for those of you wondering, interest on $4,428 (our 2005 refund due) over 5 years according to the IRS came out to a whopping $84.

So, no...I don't have much use for the IRS. It's no wonder people get fed up to the point they fly their small planes into IRS buildings killing themselves in the process.

And Irving's right. There is absolutely nothing you can do to anyone there because no one is responsible for anything. There is zero accountability within the organization. Zero.

Just like TSA...I'd go hungry and live on the street before I'd work for the IRS.

[Zundfolge]

Which is why we need to repeal the 16th Amendment and institute a VAT instead.

Its ironic that you can murder your unborn children because of a "constitutional right to privacy" and yet the government can completely invade your privacy every year by demanding you tell them how much money you make (and then throw you in jail and/or confiscate your property if they just THINK you made a mistake ... no "innocent until proven guilty" in tax court).

Its down right Un-American.

[tmleadr03]

Which is why we need to repeal the 16th Amendment and institute a VAT instead.

Its ironic that you can murder your unborn children because of a "constitutional right to privacy" and yet the government can completely invade your privacy every year by demanding you tell them how much money you make (and then throw you in jail and/or confiscate your property if they just THINK you made a mistake ... no "innocent until proven guilty" in tax court).

Its down right Un-American.

Oh lord no. Flat tax or end use tax. Value added tax is the debil.

[Bailey Guns]

I'd prefer a national sales tax over the VAT. The collection mechanism is already in place and everyone will pay their share. Either way, nuke the IRS.

ETA: Some people seem to use VAT and a NST interchangeably. Are they the same?

[Zundfolge]

ETA: Some people seem to use VAT and a NST interchangeably. Are they the same?

I figured they're the same ... if there's a difference than someone let me know.

Oh and whatever tax we end up with it needs to be capped at 10% GDP. God only asks for 10%, Why should Uncle Sam get more?

[tmleadr03]

I'd prefer a national sales tax over the VAT. The collection mechanism is already in place and everyone will pay their share. Either way, nuke the IRS.

ETA: Some people seem to use VAT and a NST interchangeably. Are they the same?

Not at all.

Vat means that tax is collected at EVERY level of production (i.e. for a house, the contractor pays tax on the wood for framing, the shingles, the nails, the cement, the whatever else they need to build a house). NST means it is collected at the retail level (i.e. for a house you pay tax on the retail sale of said house, the contractor does not pay sales tax on anything because he is a wholesaler).

[Zundfolge]

Ah, so a NST would be simpler than a VAT and would have less impact on producers.

Ok, put me down for the NST instead of the VAT ... but frankly either would be preferable to an income tax.

And again, some sort of cap on taxes is needed (lest they just keep raising the tax every session until they're again damaging the free market system).