More liberal hypocrisy

[Rucker61]

To be accurate the unemployment stats used these days are not the same data points as used in the past. As far as being transparent let's begin with releasing any data associated as far as school records, thesis, scholarship data etc. Be careful what you ask for as the same will be expected of you and yours.

Sounds good to me. I'm 100% in favor of all of that, for all candidates.

[Rucker61]

Not really involved in your discussion but apparently my reading comprehension is off today. The only reference I saw in that article related to FFLs and gun walking other than OF&F was down at the very end - "U.S. gun store owners in southwestern border states sued to overturn an Obama administration requirement that they report to the ATF when customers buy multiple high-powered rifles within a five-day period. A federal court upheld the requirement." Guns in Mexico traced back to US does not equal FFL sales to straws buyers and is unsubstantiated conjecture.

Point taken. It's reasonable to assume, however, that:

1. Straw buyers selling guns into Mexico had been going on for some time before 2007, else the ATF wouldn't have created a sting process utilizing that logistics chain.

2. Some portion of the 68,000 guns from the US were sold legally to US citizens and made their way to Mexico or into the hands of criminals in the US.

3. Regardless of ATF sting activity, weapons have been and will continue to be sold to straw buyers and passed on to criminals.

[Ronin13]

Is there anything that you'd like Mr Romney to be a bit more transparent about?

I think the main thing, where does he honestly stand on 2A rights? I've seen him flip flop a lot, but I'm still going to support him over Comrade-Barry.

[Whistler]

1. Is still an assumption
2. I have sold guns to legal folks but have no idea where they went after
3. Crime happens though hopefully our Gov will try not to participate

Didn't mean to derail anything and I'll let somebody else argue with you, just being moderately pedantic.

[clublights]

Point taken. It's reasonable to assume, however, that:

1. Straw buyers selling guns into Mexico had been going on for some time before 2007, else the ATF wouldn't have created a sting process utilizing that logistics chain.

2. Some portion of the 68,000 guns from the US were sold legally to US citizens and made their way to Mexico or into the hands of criminals in the US.

3. Regardless of ATF sting activity, weapons have been and will continue to be sold to straw buyers and passed on to criminals.

1. Yeah of course

2. Yes. What does that have to do with the ATF forcing KNOWN illegal sales and just letting them walk?

3. So two wrongs make a right ?? really? Just blame Bush right ? F&F would be a lot easier to swallow except for these factors:

A. It had been tried before and FAILED.

B. Despite knowing of the failure they tried anyways and this time did not bother to inform the mexican's

C. Again Despite knowledge of failure the first time... THey tried it again and didn't even bother to follow the weapons.

D. F&F weapons that came from a failed operation form the start that you didn't track the weapons or let the mexicans know what you were doing.....got american LEO's killed.

To expand on Point B... How would YOU feel if say the Saudi's knowing they have a terrorist bomb problem allowed / helped terrorists get bombs across the US border and used said bombs to kill americans.. How would YOU Feel ?

[Bailey Guns]

So, if someone calls for accountability for one person, they should also list all of the other folks that should also have accountability called into question? We already have Congress investigating Holder; what other actions would you expect to happen?

OK. I'll play. Romney is a private citizen. What, exactly, do your liberal protester friends want in terms of accountability from Mitt Romney? Eric Holder is in charge of the justice department. Do I need to list the things for which Holder should accept accountability? The list is rather long...

Don't really care to get into the unemployment debate. The Obama administration releases bullshit figures, then revises them upward the following week. How many consecutive weeks have they revised the numbers up now? 55 or thereabouts?

[spyder]

First, Ok, I get that, but they say 8% but in reality there are estimates that the jobless is actually closer to 12-14% (Remember, unemployment only accounts for those collecting unemployment, it doesn't take into account those whose benefits ran out but are still not working).

Actually Ronin, you're wrong. It's much worse (I know this because my wife worked for Mesa County on this topic for a bit). The unemployment rate is only based upon new claims and those that are only six months long. After six months rather you are collecting or not, you drop off that figure. The only way that figure drops is if people that are collecting, stop collecting (report a job or whatever else), or there are less new claims. That's it in an easy nut shell. This means that the unemployment figures do not include anyone not caliming, that can't claim, or that have claims longer than six months old.

Understood. Remember that all of those historical figures include that same calculation.

No, they were different, and more accurate. The actual unemployment rate is much higher now because the numbers are not accurate at all. At all....... The ones from the depression, were accurate.

[Rucker61]

1. Is still an assumption
2. I have sold guns to legal folks but have no idea where they went after
3. Crime happens though hopefully our Gov will try not to participate

Didn't mean to derail anything and I'll let somebody else argue with you, just being moderately pedantic.

I like pedantic. Thanks for calling me out. How do you feel about local LEO sting operations for drug sales, etc?

[Rucker61]

1. Yeah of course

2. Yes. What does that have to do with the ATF forcing KNOWN illegal sales and just letting them walk?

What was illegal about the initial sales? Selling firearms to American citizens of legal age is perfectly legal, isn't it?

To expand on Point B... How would YOU feel if say the Saudi's knowing they have a terrorist bomb problem allowed / helped terrorists get bombs across the US border and used said bombs to kill americans.. How would YOU Feel ?

I don't feel that the Saudis are our allies now. Not informing the Mexicans that OF&F was in play could be considered an act of war.

[Mazin]

[Rucker61;568348]What was illegal about the initial sales? Selling firearms to American citizens of legal age is perfectly legal, isn't it?


Not if its known (prevous experinces) that you are not going to be the sole owner of the firearm aka Straw sell.



I don't feel that the Saudis are our allies now. Not informing the Mexicans that OF&F was in play could be considered an act of war.[/quote]


I don't feel the saudis ever really where allies. As far as Mexico what are they going to do Invade?.......to late. What about the US citizens that have been killed by Illigals does that not constitute an act of war?