Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
The Marine Corps has been firing hundreds of thousands if not millions of rounds through their IAR/HK416.
No scratches on the buffer tubes or one piece bcg on both of my adam arms uppers. No scratches on the tube or bcg of my POF.
It's so nice to have your bcg and chamber clean even after few hundred rounds.
How mature are the piston conversions????
Well I have yet to see one knocked up or needing a shave
In all honesty I feel they are a hardware solution for a software problem. The AR platform is reliable if kept lubed and reasonably clean. I have customers that run courses of 5K rounds per weekend with no issue. They maintain their weapon as a normal course of action and have no problems.
I am sure if Eugene Stoner felt the piston system was best for the platform he would have made it a piston actuated action.
They add weight and mechanical complexity.
Complexity of a mechanical device just adds potential for that much more to fail.
Parts left off cost nothing, parts left off cannot fail.
Bolt tilt is caused by recoil impulses being introduced to the bolt carrier in a way it was not designed for.
When a gas impingement system acts upon the bolt carrier the gas impulse exerts pressure equally in all directions. The bolt carrier moves due to this impulse the only direction it can, straight back in a linear fashion.
With the piston system the recoil rod imparts the recoil impulse strictly on the top of the bolt carrier, this adds a rotational force to the bolt carrier. Now you have the bolt carrier wanting to rotate downward as it travels rearward.
The machine isn't designed for such.
So in essence you have attempted to fix a relatively infrequent problem but have added another problem that occurs on every round fired.
Nothing like taking a step backwards.
If you want a piston rifle then get one that was designed that way from the git go, such as a Sig or AK.
The most important thing to be learned from those who demand "Equality For All" is that all are not equal...
Gun Control - seeking a Hardware solution for a Software problem...
When I was looking at a rifle I really worried about the horrible reliability of all direct impengement guns. I bought an AK74 and it never failed- not a hiccup ever... It couldn't hold the groups that I wanted at 500m so I gave up and pieced together an AR.
I like to know the breaking point of all the guns I own so I won't clean them until I have a failure.
I am somewhere between 2500-5000 rounds and all I have done is take the bolt out, dry it with a paper towel, dip it in ATF, wipe excess and re-assemble.
I have done this once in the life of the rifle.(thank you anonymous source for awesome lube tip)
I also cheated and ran a rod and brush down the barrel once before a competition.
I see no point in messing with a piston conversion
"its like a f****** turkey shoot" -Travis Haley
I would avoid them.
Not enough commonality of parts.
10 years from now your brand XXX Piston conversion breaks a part. Brand XXX is out of business and you are screwed.
You know I like my coffee sweet in the morning
and I'm crazy about my tea at night
Originally Posted by BPTactical
How mature are the piston conversions????
Well I have yet to see one knocked up or needing a shave
In all honesty I feel they are a hardware solution for a software problem. The AR platform is reliable if kept lubed and reasonably clean. I have customers that run courses of 5K rounds per weekend with no issue. They maintain their weapon as a normal course of action and have no problems.
I am sure if Eugene Stoner felt the piston system was best for the platform he would have made it a piston actuated action.
They add weight and mechanical complexity.
Complexity of a mechanical device just adds potential for that much more to fail.
Parts left off cost nothing, parts left off cannot fail.
Bolt tilt is caused by recoil impulses being introduced to the bolt carrier in a way it was not designed for.
When a gas impingement system acts upon the bolt carrier the gas impulse exerts pressure equally in all directions. The bolt carrier moves due to this impulse the only direction it can, straight back in a linear fashion.
With the piston system the recoil rod imparts the recoil impulse strictly on the top of the bolt carrier, this adds a rotational force to the bolt carrier. Now you have the bolt carrier wanting to rotate downward as it travels rearward.
The machine isn't designed for such.
So in essence you have attempted to fix a relatively infrequent problem but have added another problem that occurs on every round fired.
Nothing like taking a step backwards.
If you want a piston rifle then get one that was designed that way from the git go, such as a Sig or AK.
I thought I wanted to be the cool kid with a piston conversion a year back, but more I talked to people that had one and taking into the account I am a firm believer in Murphy's law I decided it was not worth it.
Your explanation Bert and Hoser's quip on parts later was very good and summed up all the downs..............to ME that outweighed being the in crowd.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles. --Jeff Cooper"
My feedback
As a matter of fact i never bought a piston AR-15, my dad did. a Ruger SR 556. We find it problematique. The bolt group does not get heats up, but part of the piston system above the barrel heats up like a mofo, that part act like a heat sink so hot can melt skin right through. And i noticed the scratch in the buffet tube when i decided to take everything apart and maintain it.
I'm sure the US military choosed HK416/IAR because they were the best piston system designed(German design, surprise, surprise). I have heard very good feed about LWRC's M6. But I just don't think the Ruger design is matured, and makes me question about the other commercial piston AR-15s.
I dont buy in to the whole piston thing. I have fired and ran AR rifles to the limit before I had kids and had money for cases of ammo. Use top quality parts and good not beat to shit USGI mags and you will be good to go. If the AR was so unreliable the service would of ditched it years ago. Just my 2 cents
Don't be stupid!!!!!
Reading Bert's comments reminded me of a blog post I read a while back: http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/08/27/...waste-of-time/
So many people just assume that ARs need to be surgically cleaned to operate properly and that AKs still run with mud stuffed in the barrel.
They are machines. Clean as needed and keep them properly lubricated. When you are familiar with your particular weapon, it will tell you what it needs. If you don't know what it needs, take it to someone like Bert or Rob and they will tell you and then you will know.
Piston ARs...Why?
Be safe.
Piston AR's run cooler...
Naval Institute read...
http://www.usni.org/magazines/procee...happened-wanat
PS. Stag arms is same as CMMG when it comes to gas piston systems. Argue all you want, hot gas back to the chamber area is not good.
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