Romney: "Obama supporters are dependent on the government"

[Whistler]

Like any generality, there are inherent inaccuracies. Good for you for working hard when you had to; my dad, as an Air Force sergeant, worked Saturdays as the janitor for our church to make ends meet, and I had my own kid sized broom to mop for my 25 cents. He never took a dime in handouts either, other than the GI Bill, and he earned that. I picked fruit and vegetables as a kid, though not for money, just to help fill the jars that filled our pantry. As a whole, though, we'd be in trouble, I'd believe, if we didn't have the illegals working for the farmers. Too hard of work for too little money for most of us.

Tend to stay away from the political threads but... (always a but) that's the broad stroke you were talking about earlier. Assuming the 13 million unemployed/underemployed you cited I believe you'd be surprised at how many of "us" would be tickled to have the work. I've met few folks that wouldn't rather at least feel like they were doing something, anything to improve their lot so long as it wasn't a net loss proposition.

[10mm-man]

Poll: Are Many Americans Too Dependent on Government?
Published: Tuesday, 18 Sep 2012 | 10:09 AM ET Text Size
By: CNBC

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GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a fundraising event earlier this year that “there are 47 percent who are with him (Obama), who are dependent upon the government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them.”


Do you agree with Romney's statement?
Yes
76%
No
22%
Not Sure
2%
Total Votes: 34609
Not a Scientific Survey
Results may not total 100% due to rounding
The statement, which was secretly taped and released on Monday, came under immediate attack by the Obama campaign. You can watch the video here.

So what do you think, do you agree with Romney's statement?

Vote now in our poll.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49071984/

[G__Fred]

Per: http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_new...ncome-tax?lite

------------------------------------------

The Tax Policy Center researchers found that about half of the group is basically exempt from federal income taxes because they are low income and also may have a large family.

The TPC explained that "a couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero."

The other half are zeroing out their federal income tax bill with other provisions, such as itemized deductions or the child tax credit. Some are seniors who are living off Social Security.

To be clear, the people in this group are still paying taxes. They are subject to payroll taxes for things like Medicare and Social Security, federal excise taxes on things like gasoline and state and local taxes including sales taxes on items they purchase.

Not everyone who pays no federal income tax is in the lower income brackets. A separate report released last spring by the Internal Revenue Service found more than 35,000 people who made more than $200,000 in 2009 also managed to zero out their tax bills. That report noted that it generally takes a number of different credits and deductions for wealthy people to not pay any federal income taxes.


I am not rich, I am also making more than $26, 400 a year for my entire family, therefore, I need to (and do) pay my share.

[Irving]

Decent

I find it equally amazing that the Right, while crying about how many people do not pay income tax, don't have a word to say about all the tax loopholes that allow monstrous corporations like GE and BofA not only to not pay a dime in taxes, but actually receive a tax return. Meanwhile, I have to write a huge check every April because the percentage they took out of my paychecks wasn't enough.

Can you please cite some specific examples of "tax loopholes?" Are they actually tax loopholes, or is it just tax law. Just like the gunshow "loop hole."

EDIT: Read more of the thread and it looks like Bailey pretty much already went down the road I am going down here. I recently decided that I will do everything legally possible to pay as little taxes as possible. If paying more taxes than someone else makes you upset, then find out why they get to pay less and replicate it.

I can't name a single thing that would be better in MY life, if someone ELSE was paying more money to the government (<--NOT ME). People are so concerned with how much taxes other people pay to the government. Why? None of that money will ever find it's way to you anyway.

[Rucker61]

Tend to stay away from the political threads but... (always a but) that's the broad stroke you were talking about earlier. Assuming the 13 million unemployed/underemployed you cited I believe you'd be surprised at how many of "us" would be tickled to have the work. I've met few folks that wouldn't rather at least feel like they were doing something, anything to improve their lot so long as it wasn't a net loss proposition.

I don't know if I'd be surprised at how many, since I came from sharecroppers, but I'd be more than surprised if enough would come.

[Teufelhund]

Yeah. It is OK. I may not like it, you may not like it. However, if I made enough money to be worried about such things you can bet your ass I'd be taking advantage of every "loophole" my accountant could find in order to keep a little more of my money rather than send it to the gov't. I'm betting you would, too.

And I don't think nepotism has anything to do with it. (I think you're probably looking for a different word.) I also think that corporations taking advantage of tax law loopholes has very little to do with the growth rate of our national debt.

You're right, I would. I wouldn't point my finger at you for doing it either. Once again, I do not blame business for taking advantage of the system; I blame the legislators who have introduced tax code which allows an organization turning multi-billion-dollar profits to not pay a dime in taxes. I'm sorry, but I just don't know how else to explain this concept to make it come through in the clear.

I meant nepotism. I meant favoritism. I meant corruption. I meant the legislators elected to represent our best interests padding their pockets with bribes from business men in exchange for adding to the tax code breaks, deductions, and credits which allow them to reap income without paying the percentage you and I pay to keep the country running. If you think that more income should not equal less debt, then I can't help you understand.

Can you please cite some specific examples of "tax loopholes?" Are they actually tax loopholes, or is it just tax law. Just like the gunshow "loop hole."

EDIT: Read more of the thread and it looks like Bailey pretty much already went down the road I am going down here. I recently decided that I will do everything legally possible to pay as little taxes as possible. If paying more taxes than someone else makes you upset, then find out why they get to pay less and replicate it.

I can't name a single thing that would be better in MY life, if someone ELSE was paying more money to the government (<--NOT ME). People are so concerned with how much taxes other people pay to the government. Why? None of that money will ever find it's way to you anyway.

Semantics, my friend. Find a better word if you're not comfortable with the word "loophole." Clause? Gap? Circumvention? I'm just throwing out guesses here. What I'm driving at is the syntax of the tax code which would allow a business which is realizing enormous profits to not pay any taxes. If you and I have to pay tax on our incomes, why doesn't everyone? Why are you and I footing the bill for the whole country? I don't want a dime of it to come back to me. I want our country to have positive cash flow. I want a fair tax for/from everyone.

[Rucker61]

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a fundraising event earlier this year that “there are 47 percent who are with him (Obama), who are dependent upon the government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them.”


So what do you think, do you agree with Romney's statement?

No. See above.

[Irving]

Semantics, my friend. Find a better word if you're not comfortable with the word "loophole." Clause? Gap? Circumvention? I'm just throwing out guesses here. What I'm driving at is the syntax of the tax code which would allow a business which is realizing enormous profits to not pay any taxes. If you and I have to pay tax on our incomes, why doesn't everyone? Why are you and I footing the bill for the whole country? I don't want a dime of it to come back to me. I want our country to have positive cash flow. I want a fair tax for/from everyone.

Answer this question. Is the "gunshow loophole" actually a loophole?

What about the businesses that are not realizing enormous profits, but only small profits? If there is a way to make money and not pay taxes, why doesn't everyone do it?

Why should more income equal more taxes? In a country where the government allows you to exist, then more income will equal more taxes. That's not how this country works though. My existence, and my prosperity is not a function of, nor is it dependent on the government. The opposite is, and should be true. The government should exist because of my prosperity.

Sure the government lives off of taxes, but that does not mean that I, or you, or anyone, or any business, should have to give the government a share of ALL of our income. The aim of the government is that it will get a slice of EVERY financial transaction that happens in this country. Every time money changes hands, the government demands a piece of that money. Why?

[FastMan]

When almost half the people don't pay federal income tax, thus feel they won't benefit directly from a tax cut, but believe they will suffer from spending cuts, and are thus willing to keep building national debt to avoid those cuts, it becomes really hard to find enough people who will vote in someone who will do the hard things needed to right the ship. When it goes to over 50 percent, it becomes impossible. We'll just spend ourselves right into financial collapse. That's what's coming in an Obama second term.

Nothing else explains why with the middle east burning up, the price of gas having doubled in the last 4 years, unemployment on a record high run, personal income and wealth having fallen over the last 4 years, the middle class shrinking, the food stamp collectors rising, and deficit spending and debt growing at a rate that is quickly taking us to financial collapse, Obama is still leading in the polls.

[Teufelhund]

Answer this question. Is the "gunshow loophole" actually a loophole?

What about the businesses that are not realizing enormous profits, but only small profits? If there is a way to make money and not pay taxes, why doesn't everyone do it?

Why should more income equal more taxes? In a country where the government allows you to exist, then more income will equal more taxes. That's not how this country works though. My existence, and my prosperity is not a function of, nor is it dependent on the government. The opposite is, and should be true. The government should exist because of my prosperity.

Sure the government lives off of taxes, but that does not mean that I, or you, or anyone, or any business, should have to give the government a share of ALL of our income. The aim of the government is that it will get a slice of EVERY financial transaction that happens in this country. Every time money changes hands, the government demands a piece of that money. Why?

As I understand it, there is no gunshow loophole in this State. I don't spend a lot of time at gunshows though, and I'm not crystal clear on what that term is all about. I think it means in some States, those who could not ordinarily purchase a gun legally, can do so at a gunshow, thereby circumventing the law.

Look, I'm with you. I think the entire system is fucked up. If I had a better answer, I'd be campaigning for office instead of debating the topic on an internet forum late at night. I'm just trying to live within the system which is in place, which leads me to start bitching about its inefficiencies. If you've got a solution, I'm all ears. If you think what we're doing now is working just fine, you aren't paying attention.