A Liberal Case for CCW

[merl]

I don't think that is to much of an extreme to have on a national level what is working fine in Co. But it's not an issue that I worry about personally.

It works in CO because it doesn't do anything. Gun shows became just like buying from the local store except you have multiple stores in walking distance. As long as face to face sales between regular people is legal there will be a 'gun show loophole' Get a federal law on it, the name will just change.

The last thing this country needs is more useless laws. (ok maybe not the last thing but it is way down on the list)

[nynco]

I have no problem with personal sales, I have done them. However, I don't think it is fair to the law abiding gun store owners, who went through hell and back to get the proper paper work, to be unfairly undercut by people using loop holes. That is not a free market then, that is a rigged market skewed towards those who do not do business by the many laws that all businesses must abide by. Again I am not referring to Joe Schmo with a few personal guns. I am referring to some guy selling tons of stuff. Where that line is drawn - too hard to say.

[merl]

I am referring to some guy selling tons of stuff. Where that line is drawn - too hard to say.

There is a fuzzy line already. ATF will nail you for engaging in the business without a license at some point.

[nynco]

Precisely, which to me, it is not fair to the honest business owner to have some under handed fake dealer undercutting him by skipping the laws that the business owner has to live under. That is what happens when you have that gun show loop hole.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I have no problem with personal sales, I have done them. However, I don't think it is fair to the law abiding gun store owners, who went through hell and back to get the proper paper work, to be unfairly undercut by people using loop holes. That is not a free market then, that is a rigged market skewed towards those who do not do business by the many laws that all businesses must abide by. Again I am not referring to Joe Schmo with a few personal guns. I am referring to some guy selling tons of stuff. Where that line is drawn - too hard to say.

Once again, you make no sense and appear disconnected from reality. The argument about "gun show loopholes" has nothing to do with gun store owners being undercut or whether or not there's a free market. Even the Brady Bunch doesn't make that kind of ludicrous argument. If anything, requiring background checks on all purchases made at gun show rigs the market because Average Joe isn't set up to do background checks so has to direct his/her customers over to someone who does -- enabling the regular gun store to undercut that independent sale by the cost of the background check.

Increased regulation is almost always in favor of the large vendor who can amortize the costs of the required equipment or infrastructure across large numbers of sales. More to the point, the requirement for gun show background checks does NOTHING for public safety. It's as much of a farce as calling a semi-automatic rifle an "assault weapon" because it has a bayonet lug or collapsible stock.

[merl]

Precisely, which to me, it is not fair to the honest business owner to have some under handed fake dealer undercutting him by skipping the laws that the business owner has to live under. That is what happens when you have that gun show loop hole.

unlikely
distributors will only deal with you if you have a FFL so you could only deal in used guns.
You can do it just as easily outside a gunshow. gunbroker, armslist, other websites (here). Hell you dont even have to travel, pay your show fees, etc. easier to sell over the internet.

But you start engaging in a business without licenses you are running some serious risks. Prison time level risks. it is not worth it.

legit business being undercut is/was not the reason to remove private sales at gunshows. The lack of a background check was the reason.

[nynco]

Which Merl, I think that private individuals should be able to sell at gun shows at a reasonable level. I think that they should also have to use the back ground check system just like a dealer. By being at a gun show it is then a market place that is not the same thing as a personal private transaction.

I think we agree on something but are looking for things to disagree on.

[nynco]

Aloha, from what I have seen at the Colorado Gun shows, there is a back ground check that can be used by all people at the front of the entrance. If not, then there should be one for all people to access and use. Its the gov requiring it, in my opinion it should be free and not even be charged a user fee to do one.

[Irving]

There is no "loophole." It is just the way that the law is written. Private party sales are not required to go through a background check. Just because it takes place at a gun show is completely irrelevant to the issue.

[clublights]

There is no "loophole." It is just the way that the law is written. Private party sales are not required to go through a background check. Just because it takes place at a gun show is completely irrelevant to the issue.

Uhhh I'm pretty sure you are wrong here...

ANY sale at a gunshow MUST go thru a background check . that is my understanding at least .. if I'm wrong please show me .