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  1. #41
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    Check your facts please:

    http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/10/17/...an-that-wasnt/

    The Romney Assault Weapons Ban That Wasn’t

    Being very close personally with someone who worked at GOAL during the Romney Administration, there is a lot to like and a lot to dislike about Mitt Romney’s record on our issue. What’s not to like has gone largely undiscussed. What’s been discussed far more often is the assault weapons issue, which alternately has people or the media suggesting Romney made Massachusetts’s assault weapons ban permanent, or accusing him of being the Governor who passed Massachusetts’s Assault Weapons Ban in the first place. Both are untrue. The ban passed and signed by Governor Cellucci in 1998 never had an expiration. The problem came about in 2004 because Massachusetts Law makes several references to the federal ban. Without the supporting language from the federal ban, the definition of what exactly an assault weapon is in Massachusetts would have become uncertain. Fine, right? Well, no. Massachusetts is not a state where ambiguity in the law is decided in favor of a gun owner. The definition of assault weapon contains the language “shall include, but not be limited to,” which is like music to the ears of a prosecutor wanting to warn the fair citizenry that they exercise their right in his fiefdom at their peril. The limiting language in the Massachusetts definition was tied to a Federal Law which was about to disappear.
    In 2004 that anti-gun leaders of the Massachusetts Legislature started to raise false concerns about needing to make Massachusetts’s assault weapons ban permanent, given that the federal ban was about to expire. This was never true, but presented an excuse to convince other legislators to revisit, and simultaneously greatly expand the definition of what an assault weapon is in Massachusetts, making the ban cover far more firearms. They went ahead and drafted a bill. Fortunately for gun owners in Massachusetts, GOAL was able to essentially gut the bill, and preserve the existing language in the definition, which included the federal list of exempted firearms. In addition they got a number of other easements to the bill which are detailed in their press release speaking about Romney’s record on guns. The anti-gun sponsors of the original bill were not pleased, but the rest of the Massachusetts Legislature went along with the GOAL plan of preserving the existing definition in the law, and slipping in some easements through under the radar. This wasn’t about making the ban permanent. Massachusetts Law would have still made assault weapons illegal, just with a far more nebulous definition of what exactly an assault weapon is.
    While the anti-gun sponsors were not happy about what their bill had turned into, they got a lot happier when Governor Romney was misadvised about the bill he was signing and made the now infamous signing statement:
    “Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”
    That was essentially cover for them, especially given that the media ran with this, and has kept running ever since. GOAL was inundated with calls from angry gun owners, who took the media and anti-gun legislators word on what the bill actually did. No one, not reporters, anti-gun folks, or angry citizens, bothered to read the actual law. While it takes some work to follow, but it’s pretty easy to see the effect of the first three sections of the law, if you look at the statute it is modifying, by inserting a concrete reference to the federal law with the addition of a date. The rest you need a deeper understanding of Massachusetts gun law to follow, but the “assault weapons” parts aren’t hard.
    So Romney has never signed a gun ban, and anyone who suggests he has is missing the facts. He did other things, such as raising fees to try to balance Massachusetts’s budget, rather than raising taxes. Massachusetts has long required people to obtain licenses to possess firearms. Among those fees he raised were gun licenses, and the price hike was not trivial. The price was quadrupled without concern to what effect this would have on the exercise of people’s rights. The burden is not minor for someone who doesn’t have much money. That’s enough reason to distrust Romney on the issue as much as a gun ban is. I don’t blame gun owners who are wary of Mitt. But I’d like to see that wariness based on facts, and not bullshit peddled by the media.

  2. #42
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    Well, like I said, not that it matter anymore since Romney did not win his bid for the Presidency but the "facts" are that there was a sign-in ceremony to a Permanent Assault Weapons Ban in Massachusetts in 2004 and then Governor Romney proudly stamped his signature on said bill so, whether or not his signature made a legal difference, is irrelevant. In 2004 Romney's actions clearly demonstrated that he approved of this bill and, in November 2012, an overwhelming majority of US voters demonstrated that they disapproved of him; end of story.

  3. #43
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    An "overwhelming majority"? I think not.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Guns View Post
    An "overwhelming majority"? I think not.
    You are right! "Overwhelming" wasn't the right term here but he did get spanked pretty good in the Electoral Vote.

  5. #45
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    You sound pretty happy about that, bought any mags lately?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwalker460 View Post
    You sound pretty happy about that, bought any mags lately?
    I cannot say that I am happy though I will say that I was not surprised with the outcome of the election. Luckily, when the AWB ver. 1 expired back in 2004 (and since then), I bought more standard capacity magazines than what I will need in two lifetimes. What makes me happy is that I didn't need to pay $90 for a Magpul mag.

  7. #47
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    IMPORTANT: We have to STOP calling them "high-capacity magazines". So long as we allow the antis to call them "high-capacity magazines", we have lost. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But we WILL lose.

    Anything up to 30 rounds, i.e. the magazine that is normally used with the weapon, is STANDARD CAPACITY.

    15 in a Glock 19? Standard capacity.
    30 in an AR-15? Standard capacity.
    13 in a Browning Hi-Power (a design almost 100 years old)

    Etc.

    In contrast, a magazine that has an artificially-reduced capacity should be referred to as such.

    Being fair, a magazine which is not the standard capacity for a weapon could be referred to as high-capacity. Drum magazines, the 60- and 100-round surefires, etc. We should still support their legalization for all the reasons already mentioned, but those are the high-capacity magazines. Not the 30-rounds for ARs and AKs.

    -------------------------

    Side note: I think it's funny that the liberals who are lining up to tackle the gunman as soon as he hits his mythical 10-round reload are the same ones saying that an armed citizen (e.g. CC permit holder) has no chance against a raging maniac.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreave View Post
    IMPORTANT: We have to STOP calling them "high-capacity magazines". So long as we allow the antis to call them "high-capacity magazines", we have lost. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But we WILL lose.

    Anything up to 30 rounds, i.e. the magazine that is normally used with the weapon, is STANDARD CAPACITY.

    15 in a Glock 19? Standard capacity.
    30 in an AR-15? Standard capacity.
    13 in a Browning Hi-Power (a design almost 100 years old)

    Etc.

    In contrast, a magazine that has an artificially-reduced capacity should be referred to as such.

    Being fair, a magazine which is not the standard capacity for a weapon could be referred to as high-capacity. Drum magazines, the 60- and 100-round surefires, etc. We should still support their legalization for all the reasons already mentioned, but those are the high-capacity magazines. Not the 30-rounds for ARs and AKs.

    -------------------------

    Side note: I think it's funny that the liberals who are lining up to tackle the gunman as soon as he hits his mythical 10-round reload are the same ones saying that an armed citizen (e.g. CC permit holder) has no chance against a raging maniac.

    I already covered this-

    Quote Originally Posted by dwalker460 View Post
    "Why do you need high cap magazines?"

    A: I am not really a very good shot, so I need as many chances as I can get. Kinda like those extra lives in vidia games.
    A: High cap magazines are actually standard capacity magazines, I cannot afford high cap magazines so I just buy the standard ones.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwalker460 View Post
    I already covered this-

    "Why do you need high cap magazines?"

    A: I am not really a very good shot, so I need as many chances as I can get. Kinda like those extra lives in vidia games.
    A: High cap magazines are actually standard capacity magazines, I cannot afford high cap magazines so I just buy the standard ones.
    Yes.

    I don't love the video game answer for the reasons covered in the OP, but I like the second answer.

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