Dicks Troy Carbine

[Ridge]

Bitch on their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/dickssportinggoods?fref=ts

[RJLou]

oh, FFLs only keep their records for 20 years

He said that was the case when he closed but wasn't sure if that had changed in the last 15-20 years. he sent in all his paperwork they required when he closed up. So I guess if he didn't have any info or logs he would be in the clear since it was 25 years ago.

[MrPrena]

BTW, we dropped by to say HI to Sean&Ellis there.

you guys have no idea how mad i am at dicks sporting goods corporate right now.

Just so you guys know i been working at this company for the pasted 4, 1/2 years off and on while i finished school its been nice to have a job while between getting my degree. last year i thought they where stepping out of the norm and getting into the AR game i was excited as we where carrying stuff we have never carried before. looked promising after getting the letter from corporate to remove all MSR's or AR's or anything tactical related pretty much from the floor including magazines last mon night late. i was not pleased with this decision. told me there true stance in the company and there view of the 2A.

i didn't find out till yesterday about the special orders not being filled, and that the company was going to send out letters to refund people for there web purchase for the troy plus 100 dollar gift card. what i have herd is that they sold so many that troy could not keep up with the request and that it wouldn't be in till Feb or march that they maybe would shipped out. not sure how true that is could be just an excuses beats me. i my self am not pleased with this and the over all direction the company has taken.

i do not blame you guys, this has made my decision even easier looking for a new job after the holiday season. at the direction they are going it tells me i might not even have a job down the road if i decided to stay.

[MrPrena]

Let them hear voices

http://www.resellerratings.com/store...Sporting_Goods
http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/busine...is-pa-16001055



This really really pissed me off.
Hope they miss the earnings big time off of this.
I already wrote about 4-5 emails regarding this issue to who analyze retailers.

They said ~13k sold. Ser# 4000 was highest I've heard from 5 major forums.
Let's assume DKS did not fill ~8000 orders....

[james_bond_007]

Many attorneys will consult for free, to determine if it is worth it for them to take a case. They won't tell you the answer ("HOW" to go about the case), but they should tell you what it might cost, your odds of winning, and what the "practical" solution might be. (EX: You can win, but it will cost you way more than the gun is worth). If you do not have an attorney that offers a free consultation, you can try paying $100-$200, or one of the online $10/question legal forums. (...but you get what you pay for, typically).

I think what it boils down to is "Is there a valid contact in place or not".

Let's play "lawyer" for a moment, as best as we can, without giving advice (Other members please jump in...I'm going out on a limb again, for the purposes of an "exercise")

Elements of a Contract : (Taken from here http://www.expertlaw.com/library/bus...tract_law.html )

A "Meeting of the Minds" (Mutual Consent)

The parties to the contract have a mutual understanding of what the contract covers. For example, in a contract for the sale of a "mustang", the buyer thinks he will obtain a car and the seller believes he is contracting to sell a horse, there is no meeting of the minds and the contract will likely be held unenforceable.
(YOU SEEM TO HAVE MET THIS)


Offer and Acceptance

The contract involves an offer (or more than one offer) to another party, who accepts the offer. For example, in a contract for the sale of a piano, the seller may offer the piano to the buyer for $1,000.00. The buyer's acceptance of that offer is a necessary part of creating a binding contract for the sale of the piano.
(YOU SEEM TO HAVE MET THIS)

Mutual Consideration (The mutual exchange of something of value)

In order to be valid, the parties to a contract must exchange something of value. In the case of the sale of a piano, the buyer receives something of value in the form of the piano, and the seller receives money.
While the validity of consideration may be subject to attack on the basis that it is illusory (e.g., one party receives only what the other party was already obligated to provide), or that there is a failure of consideration (e.g., the consideration received by one party is essentially worthless), these defenses will not let a party to a contract escape the consequences of bad negotiation. For example, if a seller enters into a contract to sell a piano for $100, and later gets an offer from somebody else for $1,000, the seller can't revoke the contract on the basis that the piano was worth a lot more than he bargained to receive.
(YOU SEEM TO HAVE MET THIS IF YOU PAID FOR THE ITEM, HOWEVER YOU MAY HAVE UNKNOWINGLY ALSO AGREED TO "STORE POLICIES" OF WHICH YOU MIGHT BE UNAWARE)

Performance or Delivery

In order to be enforceable, the action contemplated by the contract must be completed. For example, if the purchaser of a piano pays the $1,000 purchase price, he can enforce the contract to require the delivery of the piano. (Seems like if you PAID for the item, you should be able to enforce delivery, store policy notwithstanding) However, unless the contract provides that delivery will occur before payment, the buyer may not be able to enforce the contract if he does not "perform" by paying the $1,000.
(YOUR SELLER SEEMS TO HAVE NOT ACCOMPLISHED THIS "DELIVERY" PART)


So, in my opinion, you can "probably" try to enforce delivery if you paid AND they still have an item available AND they don't have a store policy regarding this.
If you have not paid, you probably don't have a case.

...now there is also the fine print of which I cannot comment, as I don't have yours to look at.

Sellers often have "store policies" (of which you would need to get a copy) and to which apply to every sale regarding :
1) Misprints
2) Out of Stock
3) Limited stock - when its gone, its gone
4) Deposit vs. Pre-paid - Did you technically buy the firearm or just make a deposit, etc. ?
5) Discontinued items
6) Expiration - If they don't get one in by mm/dd/yyyy, they contract ("sale") might be invalid (Resolution: See their store policy on this)
6) etc.

EX: What if you pre-paid for a new "PS3" (a few years a go when they were the hottest item on the block and nowhere to be found).
If the store never got any more, what could you do to enforce them to give you one ?
(There is probably a store policy to cover this)

Or in your case, if they sent the ARs back and plan to get no more or sell no more ?
(This is how an attorney could help you ...)

These policies would also discuss the remedies to which you may have (unknowingly) agreed.
An attorney would have to help determine if the store policies are in conflict with federal/state/city/county law, as they respectively apply, and also help you determine the value of the remedy i.e., your money back or current market value, or something else .

Maybe the $100 gift certificate is the better than to that you are legally entitled.

If so ...congratulations.

[Monky]

If the contract is not being fulfilled by the supplier. In this case troy in the allotted time originally given to dicks they can void their contract with troy. Cancelling all orders with the exception of those already filled.

If troy said wow we can't get you guys the 400k units above what was promised.. well. Dicks sold beyond the contract (which is probably what happened) and given their new policy with ar style weapons ... they said we'll just refund and give $100 gift certs.

Probably an arbitration clause in their sales disclaimer. They've made a good faith effort beyond the purchase price. A mediator or arbitrator would probably agree with them.

I'm betting they've run it past legal and have their stuff in a row.

You're always welcome to consult an attorney .. I can only repeat what I'm told by those asshats with esq after their name.

- sent by the free-range electronic weasel attached to my hip.

[james_bond_007]

Dicks may have made a choise not to sell/transfer "AR-15s". you can't make an FFL sell or transfer you a firearm. I have the right to refuse to sell/transer a firearm to anyone for any reason. I have only had to do that once when I could tell someone had been drinking alcohol. I also refuse to sell to anyone who appears to be under the influence, acting strange, or does not appear to be mentally competent, or states (or implies) they are planning to do harm to themselves or someone else. Basically, if I don't feel comfortable with a person owning a firearm they won't get one from me.

For the SALES part:
But if the OP already paid for the item, the "sale", of which Dick's agreed, already took place before the refusal. Did it not ?

For the FFL part:
I'm not an FFL so I don't know.
Is the above YOUR policy? What is the official BATFE policy regarding refusal to sell/transfer ?

In your example you state things that cast doubt on the validity of the 4473 responses. Not transferring or delaying the transfer seems like as an FFL you might be "required, as part of your FFL" to do this.
But can you "just refuse" because you "feel" like it ? ...at any point in the transaction ?


QUESTION: If one complies with every step of a transfer (NCIS, CBI, 4473, behave civilly and respectful, etc.) can an FFL say "Sorry, I still refuse to complete the transfer."

QUESTION: Is an FFL obligated to offer me a remedy as to what to do to move forward with the transfer ?
1) If there is evidence (EX: NCIS fails etc)
2) No evidence (EX: I think you might be a nut) ?

NOTE: I'm just ASKING ....I'm not challenging anything.

[james_bond_007]

...I'm betting they've run it past legal and have their stuff in a row. ...

I'd place my bet with the "Monky" ...

His "sold beyond the contract" comment makes me think about the flights that are always "oversold".
When a flight is "oversold", I wonder if the airlines are obligated to provide a seat to all that want it, and "negotiate" a "real time" settlement ($1000 + 2 round trips anywhere, etc.) with other passengers to make one available.
If they weren't obligated in some way, I wonder if they'd negotiate so high a value ?

[crashdown]

Hmmmmm...
I do happen to have an extra one of these Troys NIB just sitting around......

[MrPrena]

Not a great forum, but I found this.
http://community.lawyers.com/forums/...51.aspx#645551

If I can get a replacement or similar item for refunded amount at this time, I will be happy with $100 gift card.
Right now, I till cost me over $1000 extra to buy something like Troy Defense Carbine.
It is like I bought a F'ing options, and some @sshat registered securities firm failed to deliver my F'ing shares when I exercised the contract.