I'm Dissappointed in the NRA

[ColoradoShooter]

Fair enough.

...Chipping away at the laws in place is, and has been our only realistic goal. The day we say "it's all or nothing" we might just find ourselves with nothing, and that is what i fear....

...Now would it be in our best interest to say "it all stops today, we will have no compromise. It is all or nothing, we will not have our rights infringed upon. Lets put this to a popular vote..."?

...I would say agree to disagree, but i don't even think that's true in this case. I agree with a no compromise stance, a right not exercised is a right lost, and so on. The problem i see with that stance is, we have a lot more to lose than we do to gain. It just might be in our best interest to protect what we have, and chip away than take an all of nothing approach at it. That has more or less been the approach to where we are at now, and i don't see that changing.

I think the best thing we can all do is remain vigilant, be proactive, and keep on guard for the legislation that will no doubt follow.

I think you and I are not very different at all and are talking about the same thing in many ways only our approaches are different.

Would you agree that it could be reasonably argued that by me taking a hard line makes your more realistic (today's) approach seem moderate by comparison? And if so, isn't there a value in that, all other arguments aside.

In the end Pickenup nailed it. Maybe the purpose of our "debate" was only to have him point out, what to me, was the obvious, although, somewhat forgotten. I am not saying it is all or nothing. What I am saying is that in the end, over the long term, I want it all. But first let's take this hill and that piece of ground back (offense)...Meanwhile, recognizing the value in those who are also working to make sure no new ground is lost (defense).

What irks me is when I have to challenge my own brotherhood in trying to defeat another compromise that actually costs us ground - and this may be where we truly differ. That is my beef with the NRA (that and their perpetual money making culture - certifications, etc.). But as others have said, I do enjoy their magazines and I do appreciate the good they have and continue to do.

Sucka - Thanks for the respectful challenge. I'm not done "chewing" on this...

[Sucka]

Good stuff ColoradoShooter.

I would like to think we all (pro 2A folks) have the same goals, it's just a matter of how we get there. I completely understand, and appreciate the "no compromise" stance.

There's a lot at stake here, and i just hope we can at the very least keep what rights we have, thus giving us the chance to chip away at other legislation.

Bottom line, we all have the same goals. We need a voice, and whether that's through the NRA, RMGO, ect we need to all do our part. If we don't have a tangible voice, we can all kiss our rights goodbye.

[ColoradoShooter]

pickenup - man did you nail it or what?

Say, would you mind if I quote you in other forums when/as it's relevant? This is great stuff, and exactly the kind of proactive (versus reactive) stuff I'm talking about.

It is indeed a LARGE part of a greater plan/framework for moving in the direction I am interested in.

Also, what if we started a new thread for this sort of thing and kicked it off with a couple of sentences of brief history and your post above as a launching point? A place where we can talk and discuss and share our thoughts on further developing and sharing info about a greater plan....RMGO does this somewhat....but I'm thinking it would be good to have a place to pull together a coherent framework from multiple places and discuss it....I'm liking this idea, but I don't want to hijack this thread. I already feel bad that it's sorta drifted away from original post....


Of course I need to stop "chewing" on this and get my comments on the carry in the Parks bill and a couple of other things first. But I like the idea of this organized, proactive approach, and a place where we can pull together different seemingly parts and put into a larger framework to see how the pieces might fit...

[pickenup]

pickenup - man did you nail it or what?

Say, would you mind if I quote you in other forums when/as it's relevant?

Feel free.
The more people working for the cause, the better.


P.S.
Don't turn this into a presidential election, type of political issue.
The point is, that we can leave Mr. Paul right where he is, and support his proposed legislation.

[ColoradoShooter]

One more thought, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but reflecting on

...Imagine how that sounds to the liberals of this country...

reminded me of this quote:

"As a gun owner, you have to realize that you will be considered extreme by the majority of the American population."

It was said during a lecture by one of my Front Sight instructors this spring. The instructor is also a retired cop.

Ok. But I have to wonder if that isn't because too much of America is weak and has fallen into the entitlement mindset. So by comparison, folks like us who prefer to take responsibility for ourselves - and especially for our own and our family's safety, - are indeed extreme by comparison.

That is also the difference IMO between sheep and Sheep Dogs. The sheep always think anything with teeth is extreme. They are uncomfortable with us because we remind them that there are predators in this world that they need protection from...and they don't like to think about the predators, the wolves....it makes the "little darlings" uncomfortable.

Hell, I don't like thinking about it either. But not being prepared will not ensure that the predators will not strike. There are times that comfort can get you killed.

Anyway, just a side thought I felt worth mentioning, even if slightly off topic.

[ColoradoShooter]

They'll come for the handguns too...

It is not to pat myself on the back or feel good; I assure you. If it were that I'd be a sheep and stick my head in the sand. Life is easier without awareness and without taking responsibility.

I understand and your points are well made. And, I am not stupid. Just frustrated.

I am not here to argue politics in this particular forum; although I thank you for your post. My comments were to illustrate a point. Is there truth in what I wrote, of course. Do I believe it, yes. Will I actually vote that way...damn it...probably not. I'm still thinking hard on weighing it all out. This is the most I've ever struggled in a voting decision. Regardless of what I decide when I exercise my right and vote, my point stands in it's own truth.

All that aside, as my new friend wisely advised:

P.S.
Don't turn this into a presidential election, type of political issue.
The point is, that we can leave Mr. Paul right where he is, and support his proposed legislation.

So, might I suggest we get back to regularly scheduled programming, as I feel responsible for hijacking this thread, which was so not my intent!

[Sucka]

snip...

This, among other things, was the point i was trying to make. We can't have our cake and eat it to so to speak. This is why i promote obtainable goals, with realistic views. No matter how you slice the cake, we're getting a pretty crappy POTUS this time around when it comes to guns. We can either hack our head off and take Obama, or cut our hand off and elect McCain, but at least we can survive. BHO never saw a gun he didn't want to ban, remember that when you pull the lever.

[ColoradoShooter]

"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjust the sails." - William Arthur Ward

Ok, Ok, I get it...don't vote me off the island!

I can so put both feet in my mouth, just watch! Going politics was not the best example....duh! (Don't forget to scrutinze running mates, Mcain is old and the VP may be running things...could be...Rudy???

Anyway, Ummm..Yeah, but I'm still trying to build a better motor for the boat...'cause I have these higher ideals and all.

I suppose this could be funny if the stakes weren't so high.

But, I still prefer GOA over the NRA...so there!

...checking for rear guard action....analyzing the terrain and situation....thinking about strategy and tactics....

[banks74]

I agree I would go with the GOA, NAGR, RMGO over the NRA anyday, but the NRA does have it uses I suppose. The analogy earlier might very well be true. It seems many traditional "gun guys" are members of the NRA. As well as many new shooters. Maybe this is why I get so frustrated with them also. I've lost count of how many times I heard an NRA member I've gone shooting or hunting with talk about "black rifle's" and why would anyone ever want or need one, and why are they allowed to own a "military and police" gun. (I know this doesn't apply to the NRA members on this page, but it does with alot of the members I have come in contact with) I try to explain to them that these are not "assault weapons of mass destruction" but only a fun and superb piece of equipment to own, shoot, and hunt with. Alot of them after shooting the rifles etc come around, but many still don't. It just baffles me. They think that if they ban these types of firearms the anti crowd will be satisfied and will stop there. They won't be satisfied until every American is left powerless. That is another reason I agree with the no compromise crowd. It has to stop somewhere or it will never end (IMHO).

Some great points were brought up about how we need all the help we can get etc, because the next few years at least, are going to be a rough ride for all of us 2nd ammendmant supporters regardless of group affiliation. I still try to be proactive and hopefull for future change, so that is why I am a member of groups like RMGO, NAGR, GOA, and routinely write my legislators. The NRA has some good programs going, and if their goals are in line with yours, than more power to ya. Alot of there goals are in line with mine, but we have strayed paths several times which leaves me wondering if I will continue to be a member after my membership expires here shortly.

[ColoradoShooter]

Yeah, I think there is much truth in what was said here, and in what I wrote (of course). But it still irks me that we in the "gun rights" arena can't all come together. We waste valuable time and energy when we fight within, instead of tackling the greatest real threats - those constantly working to ban firearms. And don't think it couldn't happen here either. We're only one election away from having our rights taken (or attempted to be taken), at any given time. Look at England and Australia. Who would have thought?

Apparently I am not the only one struggling with such issues (raised earlier in this thread). Our friend Michael Bane is too. But instead of hijacking this thread, I started a new thread with a recent post form his blog at:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...9179#post89179