View Full Version : Las Vegas Incident
theGinsue
10-05-2017, 22:10
The only problem with what you're suggesting is the knowlege that the anti-gunners NEVER give up any of the cntrol they already have, they just demand WE give up more.
Once upon a time citizens had the full cake of 2A rights. Now, we're left with a small slice of that cake and they keep trying to get us to believe it's still the original full cake and we need to give up MORE of it. I want my cake back.
KevDen2005
10-05-2017, 22:29
The only problem with what you're suggesting is the knowlege that the anti-gunners NEVER give up any of the cntrol they already have, they just demand WE give up more.
Once upon a time citizens had the full cake of 2A rights. Now, we're left with a small slice of that cake and they keep trying to get us to believe it's still the original full cake and we need to give up MORE of it. I want my cake back.
I immediately thought of the cake analogy too. I'm surprised no one posted it.
thvigil11
10-05-2017, 22:32
I immediately thought of the cake analogy too. I'm surprised no one posted it.
I was gonna, but I think I've hit my limit on analogies for the day. Though Ginsue has got it. They ain't gonna give us sh!t in return for bending on bump stocks.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-easy-ar-15-even-232638493.html
^^^^^Hahahahahahhaha....
When chrome-lined barrels are outlawed, only outlaws will have chrome-lined barrels.
I like how they marginalize the time and effort it takes to get a suppressor.
A silencer or sound suppressor, which reduces the noise emitted by a gun, can legally be purchased with little hassle in 42 states. While there are a few hoops to jump through, you can have one in less than a year.
Where do they find these people?
They had a bunch of talking points ready for a magazine ban but accidentally copy and pasted it into this.
DenverGP
10-05-2017, 23:25
They ain't gonna give us sh!t in return for bending on bump stocks.
And they'll use it as proof that "most americans favor more gun control".
What will the NRA and the not-really conservatives in congress give up the next time some criminal breaks the law?
The only problem with what you're suggesting is the knowlege that the anti-gunners NEVER give up any of the cntrol they already have, they just demand WE give up more.
Once upon a time citizens had the full cake of 2A rights. Now, we're left with a small slice of that cake and they keep trying to get us to believe it's still the original full cake and we need to give up MORE of it. I want my cake back.
Incrementalism.
I want my cake back too.
Bailey Guns
10-06-2017, 06:57
Incrementalism.
I want my cake back too.
And that's exactly why I started the NRA thread. I think it's wrong-headed to start from a position of weakness. I'm 57 years old and for my entire adult life I've had to put up with the left taking liberties away and my side doing nothing about it. I'm tired of it.
KevDen2005
10-06-2017, 07:13
I like how they marginalize the time and effort it takes to get a suppressor.
Oh yeah, it was very little hassle.
I didn't realize I just needed to swap my bolt carrier group to keep my weapon cooler
KevDen2005
10-06-2017, 07:15
I was gonna, but I think I've hit my limit on analogies for the day. Though Ginsue has got it. They ain't gonna give us sh!t in return for bending on bump stocks.
Everyone's talking about it you should just do it.
This forum would only have about a tenth of the posts if it wasn't for jokes, analogies, and cliches.
Great-Kazoo
10-06-2017, 08:45
Everyone's talking about it you should just do it.
This forum would only have about a tenth of the posts if it wasn't for jokes, analogies, and cliches.
http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/hobbies-leisure-cliches-workshop-class-teaching-cartoons-jmi0136_low.jpg
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2017, 09:00
Fight crime...shoot back!
Oh yeah, it was very little hassle.
I didn't realize I just needed to swap my bolt carrier group to keep my weapon cooler
Almost as easy as buying a machine gun off the internet, having it delivered to my front door, without a background check. So easy, anyone could do it! There ought to be a law...
Almost as easy as buying a machine gun off the internet, having it delivered to my front door, without a background check. So easy, anyone could do it! There ought to be a law...
I've never actually been on the so called Dark Web but apparently you can do just that.
whitbaby
10-06-2017, 09:53
Anyone hear anything about tracers being used? Shooting diagonally 400 yards into the dark without tracers is a good trick.
Anyone hear anything about tracers being used? Shooting diagonally 400 yards into the dark without tracers is a good trick.
It's not hard when you're shooting into a wad of thousands of people bunched together with few paths of egress. Tracers probably would have ended this quicker. There was much confusion as to where the shots were coming from.
Anyone hear anything about tracers being used? Shooting diagonally 400 yards into the dark without tracers is a good trick.
Shooting at ~ 400m on a mass of people lit up from multiple angles by huge spotlights would not be hard.
There were 129 dead in the shooting at a concert in Paris, France (with very strict gun laws) less than a year ago. 22 were killed by a bombing at a concert in Manchester, UK (with very strict gun laws) on May 22nd.
Maybe concerts should be banned.
Those calling for 'more gun laws' are likely afflicted by a brain disorder. 59 counts of murder and over 500 counts of attempted murder were not enough to deter this attacker, who finally killed himself. Laws are guidelines for the law abiding. If an actor is intent on breaking the law, no measure of creating more laws will help the situation. Suicide was decriminalized, but if it wasn't, does anyone believe that this individual would have been deterred from taking his own life? I believe this falls under the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over, hoping to get a different result.
Anyone hear anything about tracers being used? Shooting diagonally 400 yards into the dark without tracers is a good trick.
The lights got turned on and the venue got pretty bright. He wasn't shooting into the dark.
Gat Crank. Didn't know that existed until I saw that video. :D
I've never actually been on the so called Dark Web but apparently you can do just that.
Definitely should be a law.
colorider
10-06-2017, 12:32
Gat Crank. Didn't know that existed until I saw that video. :D
Many many years ago I had one for my 10/22. Was a LOT of fun. Somehow I misplaced it.
hollohas
10-06-2017, 12:55
Shooting at ~ 400m on a mass of people lit up from multiple angles by huge spotlights would not be hard."Aimed" fire not so hard. Rapid fire with a slide fire stock? Not so easy...
"Aimed" fire not so hard. Rapid fire with a slide fire stock? Not so easy...
Unless you’re a government spook.. err I mean “accountant for aerospace / defense contractors”
Anyone hear anything about tracers being used?
Las Vegas shooter tried to buy tracer rounds, official says (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/las-vegas-shooter-tried-to-buy-tracer-rounds-official-says/ar-AAsY5NE)
Las Vegas shooter tried to buy tracer rounds, official says (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/las-vegas-shooter-tried-to-buy-tracer-rounds-official-says/ar-AAsY5NE)
Sounds like bullshit fearmongering. You can go to Sportsman's Warehouse and buy cases of tracer ammo.
Gat Crank. Didn't know that existed until I saw that video. :D
Me too! Gotta thank those librulz for turning me on to another toy I need.
"Aimed" fire not so hard. Rapid fire with a slide fire stock? Not so easy...
Have you seen how large his target field was?
If he was just spraying for area, then it would be easy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/national/las-vegas-shooting/img/2300vegas-shooting-promo.jpg
hollohas
10-06-2017, 15:26
Have you seen how large his target field was?
If he was just spraying for area, then it would be easy.
Yes I have. I've also seen people completely miss very large targets at 50 yards while bump firing...
But I agree, 'minute of concert venue' is a large target.
Yes I have. I've also seen people completely miss very large targets at 50 yards while bump firing...
But I agree, 'minute of concert venue' is a large target.
I believe this is what accounts for the 2 rounds that hit the Jetfuel tanks at the airport. They are going to find bullets all over the airport and surrounding areas for years. I would bet money he had no clue there was Jetfuel tanks anywhere around there while this was going on.
Aloha_Shooter
10-06-2017, 15:51
Looking at just the pure mathematics of it, he had 22,000 targets concentrated in a very small area and he killed fewer than 60. Thank God he didn't appear to be into controlled precise fire -- with an hour of fire, he likely would have killed many more with a deer rifle.
Zundfolge
10-06-2017, 15:54
OJ Simpson was released from Lovelock Correctional Institute in Nevada at 12:08am, Sunday October 1.
At 10:08pm the same day the shooting started in Vegas (and people think the shooter may have had an accomplice).
Coincidence?
ETA:
for all we know, nichole's "real killer" was in attendance at the concert
Yeah, I'm gonna say hitting a football field from 400m is not very high on the skill level chart...
Definitely just bad luck. With how crowded it was at the concert, people would have been just a bit more spread out than shoulder to shoulder, and so the majority of the hits at the beginning are going to be head or upper torso. As people scattered, that left large empty areas, allowing for shots to land on the lower torso and legs of those still in the target area.
hollohas
10-06-2017, 18:36
Some of the stories regarding the casualties have indicated either precision or bad luck. E.g. many I'm seeing are head, neck, some back.
On the flip side, those that are hit in the abdomen, legs, arms, etc. are not well counted because who the hell knows how many people the shooter wounded thanks to our press.
I'd say it's mostly bad luck. Those people were packed like sardines. Only their heads and necks were exposed. Hard to get hit in the leg when it's pressed up against a sea of people.
I immediately assumed many of the injured were trampled. But I haven't seen a single story about anyone getting trampled. In the videos we've seen, many people just calmly ducked down... I have seen very little scrambling about. But people had to have been trampled because he didn't shoot all that many rounds. The official timeline shows he only shot for 10 minutes or so. Plus, none of the room pictures show much brass on the floor. I know perhaps there's a big pile we can't see, but from what we do see, it wasn't much.
The police found a cell phone charger in his room that wasn't for his phone...
Interesting...
The Las Vegas PD had a press conference today and were asked about shooting victims vs. trampling. The PD deferred to the coroner.
Extremely rarely are people killed by trampling, seems like the coroner will only be dealing with the dead and that would skew results.
I'd say talk to the hospitals, but HIPAA will cause issues with getting that information.
I don't have facebook, but for those that do, perhaps sharing this video on there might be a good "gotcha" for libs:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-sharpshooters-explain-their-love-for-the-ar-15-rifle/
Jeffrey Lebowski
10-06-2017, 20:40
I'd say talk to the hospitals, but HIPAA will cause issues with getting that information.
They could report in aggregate without any issues if there were no identifiers.
KevDen2005
10-06-2017, 21:04
Some of the stories regarding the casualties have indicated either precision or bad luck. E.g. many I'm seeing are head, neck, some back.
On the flip side, those that are hit in the abdomen, legs, arms, etc. are not well counted because who the hell knows how many people the shooter wounded thanks to our press.
E.g. "Killed 59 people and wounded 500 others" - uh, no. Probably 450 trampled each other, and 50 wounded by the shooter. I wish someone would provide an actual number of gunshot victims, but that wouldn't meet the media's M.O. (Sounds so much better if he shot 559 people... riiight? riiiiight? We can get away with this)
I wish they would as well as I know we are all curious. I have just been assuming 120 wounded (double up on the death toll). The rest I say trampled.
yankeefan98121
10-06-2017, 21:32
OJ Simpson was released from Lovelock Correctional Institute in Nevada at 12:08am, Sunday October 1.
At 10:08pm the same day the shooting started in Vegas (and people think the shooter may have had an accomplice).
Coincidence?
ETA:
for all we know, nichole's "real killer" was in attendance at the concert
Omfg!! This isn’t productive nor adding to the conversation but this is THE best theory here!
Well, besides Kazoo’s Aliens theory
Look, I’m for one for conspiracy theories but it took a slap in that face from a friend for me to snap back into reality (literally). Really though, I feel I’m obsessed with what I “believe” is a conspiracy. I’m scouring every video, interview, scrap of garbage I can find on the interweb. Even though I stayed at a holiday inn, my theories are garbage. As much as I think they’re the “truth”.
Trying to find out why, as humans, is only natural. Sometimes we just can’t and that’s life. It sucks.
Innocent people died and a bunch of people got hurt because of a/some crazy fucks.
Period
They could report in aggregate without any issues if there were no identifiers.
That is also possible, but it will take more than just 3 days to obtain and categorize that data.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/259/977/9bf.jpg
yankeefan98121
10-06-2017, 22:33
This fucking douche canoe is every law abiding gun owners worse nightmare. A supposedley law abiding gun owner who did everything right for 60+ years suddenly becomes Scarface.
Maybe, the NRA is giving up a chip.
Maybe, they’re creating a fireblock with the bumpstocks
Damn it, yes, we as responsible gun owners have always been playing from behind.
Yes, we’re constantly being attacked for our beliefs.
What we can’t do is give into the hysteria and (insert any of the previous theories here) and expect to be taken seriously.
This is my last post on this. I apologize if I upset any members
We HAVE to be part of the solution PERIOD.
DavieD55
10-06-2017, 22:40
This fucking douche canoe is every law abiding gun owners worse nightmare. A supposedley law abiding gun owner who did everything right for 60+ years suddenly becomes Scarface.
Maybe, the NRA is giving up a chip.
Maybe, they’re creating a fireblock with the bumpstocks
Damn it, yes, we as responsible gun owners have always been playing from behind
Yes, we’re constantly being attacked for our believes.
What we can’t do is give into the hysteria and (insert any of the previous theories here) and expect to be taken seriously.
This is my last post on this. I apologize if I upset any members
We HAVE to be part of the solution PERIOD
So the main stream media says. Do you actually believe what main stream media is reporting is exactly what happened there?
yankeefan98121
10-06-2017, 22:42
Omfg!! This isn’t productive nor adding to the conversation but this is THE best theory here!
Well, besides Kazoo’s Aliens theory
Look, I’m for one for conspiracy theories but it took a slap in that face from a friend for me to snap back into reality (literally). Really though, I feel I’m obsessed with what I “believe” is a conspiracy. I’m scouring every video, interview, scrap of garbage I can find on the interweb. Even though I stayed at a holiday inn, my theories are garbage. As much as I think they’re the “truth”.
Trying to find out why, as humans, is only natural. Sometimes we just can’t and that’s life. It sucks.
Innocent people died and a bunch of people got hurt because of a/some crazy fucks.
Period
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2017, 23:45
Gman is correct.
Me too! Gotta thank those librulz for turning me on to another toy I need.
It will be fun toy to have it on M249s. Now I want both.
I'm watching Fox News Sunday on the DVR this morning.
Steve Wynn had an interesting view of the situation.
Las Vegas gunman seemed like 'a rational man,' Steve Wynn tells 'Fox News Sunday' (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/08/las-vegas-gunman-seemed-like-rational-man-steve-wynn-tells-fox-news-sunday.html)
One thing mentioned in the video that wasn't in the article, is that neither the shooter or his girlfriend were ever seen drinking alcohol.
Chris Cox from the NRA was also on. He put the responsibility of bump-stocks on the the BATFE under Barrack Obama and if it needs further review, then the ATF needs to do their job. The focus on devices takes away attention on the problem which is the underlying behavior. When asked about a ban on bump-stocks, replied that bans don't work on anything.
He highlighted the hypocrisy of those calling for gun control that have armed security and will never have to dial 911.
Chris Wallace completely twisted the limit of 72 hours for a background check into a total fail calling it "the Charlston loophole" due to Roof getting approved even though there were issues that would have prevented him from getting a gun. Also took issue with the NRA representing that mental health records in background checks. Wallace was pointing out that the SSA under Trump was directed not to include mental health information into the records. Cox pointed out that the only thing being held was the judgment that if someone receiving SS had someone else helping them to financially manage their benefits that the wouldn't be excluded from their 2A rights. Having someone help you balance your checkbook didn't mean that you couldn't protect yourself. Wallace totally didn't get it.
Then Wallace goes into high-capacity magazines. Wants to know why hunters and people needing to defend themselves with 100 rounds. Cox goes through how previous bans on magazine capacity have done nothing to prevent crime. Cox responds that people own different capacities for different reasons. Wallace interrupts with 'is ten enough'? "People can own things safely and responsibly and be a danger to no one, and that's the part of this conversation...it can't be a fair and balanced conversation if you're not willing to discuss the broader problems that we have..."
I thought Cox did a pretty good job considering the circumstance.
DireWolf
10-08-2017, 10:17
One thing mentioned in the video that wasn't in the article, is that neither the shooter or his girlfriend were ever seen drinking alcohol.
Excellent point.
TCT (if I'm remembering correctly) had an article that goes into quite a bit of detail on this aspect, including pictures of them in a club with no alcohol anywhere...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
I thought there was a photo of the shooter looking bleary eyed with a glass with brown liquid in it in his hand?
68Charger
10-08-2017, 14:01
I'm curious how a liberal would honestly answer a question like this:
What punishment do you think is appropriate if someone you care about were arrested for having a metal and/or plastic box designed to feed 30, 40 or even 60 rounds into a firearm, BUT DID NOTHING ELSE WRONG. They never hurt anyone, they never planned on hurting anyone, they just had this thing in their posession.
Jail time? Take away all their guns and jail time?
And make it personal- a family member, their favorite actors (pretty sure liberals love celebrities).
If they still argue jail time, then- ok, now they've lost their job, depleted their entire life savings paying legal fees, and their kids (if they have any) have to visit their parent in prison.
I thought there was a photo of the shooter looking bleary eyed with a glass with brown liquid in it in his hand?
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/yourimage-261-e1506945523361.jpg
Aloha_Shooter
10-08-2017, 15:13
Every anti-gunner that whines about "high capacity" magazines should be asked if they have more than 1 of anything and if so, why one car/painting by favorite artists/book/movie/etc. isn't enough. After all, they can only drive/read/watch one at a time, right?
I see no eyes and that could be somewhere other than Vegas. Is that even his arm? Interesting fashion statement to have just the left sleeve rolled up.
Just reporting what Steve Wynn said about the 11 year history that they've had of the individual and his girlfriend in his casinos.
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/yourimage-261-e1506945523361.jpg
That's the one, thank you 00tec!
So, quick question. They say he has been buying guns since 1982. How do they know this if there is no record/registration database on gun purchases?
I see no eyes and that could be somewhere other than Vegas. Is that even his arm? Interesting fashion statement to have just the left sleeve rolled up.
Just reporting what Steve Wynn said about the 11 year history that they've had of the individual and his girlfriend in his casinos.
Looks like a weekend at Bernie's.
72210
Zundfolge
10-08-2017, 15:53
So, quick question. They say he has been buying guns since 1982. How do they know this if there is no record/registration database on gun purchases?
Up until recently, handguns were registered in Clark County.
Up until recently, handguns were registered in Clark County.
Has he lived in Clark county since 1982?
So, quick question. They say he has been buying guns since 1982. How do they know this if there is no record/registration database on gun purchases?
The 4473 records. Remember, they list type of firearm and serial number, but not the make/model.
BladesNBarrels
10-08-2017, 16:45
So, quick question. They say he has been buying guns since 1982. How do they know this if there is no record/registration database on gun purchases?
My thought when the reports detailed how many rifles and handguns he had bought since 1982 and how many he bought the past year.
My first question is how they got specific information so fast and from whom?
Was it the Form 4473's that are retained by the FFL? Was it the online Background Check that is retained for 24 hours? Was it the only dealer that he ever bought from?
It sure looks like there is gun registration and it is available quickly contrary to what the claims are.
[Dunno]
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 16:59
It does piss me off a bit that there is a record of every legally purchased weapon I own. Of course, of all the weapons I own are registered properly and accounted for with the proper authorities.
Good thing too, because we all know what could happen if one fell into the wrong hands.
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 18:24
He says he sold it to this Stephen guy in perhaps 1984 for a B.J. and a shot of whiskey. They confirm as best as they can it's the same Stephen.
I found this part to be particularly hilarious.
hurley842002
10-08-2017, 18:51
He says he sold it to this Stephen guy in perhaps 1984 for a B.J. and a shot of whiskey. They confirm as best as they can it's the same Stephen.
I found this part to be particularly hilarious.
I found "smoking poles in SF" to be quite hilarious.
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 18:58
Equally as funny, but as usual, Foxtrot does lay down some seriously solid dialogue.
DireWolf
10-08-2017, 19:21
I see no eyes and that could be somewhere other than Vegas. Is that even his arm? Interesting fashion statement to have just the left sleeve rolled up.
Just reporting what Steve Wynn said about the 11 year history that they've had of the individual and his girlfriend in his casinos.
Found the article I referenced earlier - apparently, the pic was taken at a club in Reno...
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/10/02/mandalay-bay-shooter-riddles-the-philippine-angle/
They also reference the no alcohol angle...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
I hadn't seen these videos before today.
Vegas survivor insists on standing to meet President Trump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERt-Xj8cppA
Trump Visiting Las Vegas Victims (Incredible Behind the Scenes Video)
http://youtu.be/fIF_RYgIYzE
If police are in possession of all of the assailants firearms... and they know where the firearms were manufactured, slow down people. How do you figure out the chain of possession? You start from the manufacturer. So, the LEO department submits an ATF trace request.
.....the process described by foxtrot - which I concede is accurate enough for our purposes....
There is no registration.
I won't belabor this as we have argued about it in the past and the search function in still there if anyone cares. But what was you described is, in effect, registration. It's just registration 'by proxy' for lack of a better term. With states, such as Colorado, now requiring 4473s for every personal transaction it is a registration system that tracks from point of manufacturer to point of last sale.
Just because there isn't one form/person/system that magically tells you "John Doe has Hi-Point S/N: FOOBAR"; it doesn't mean the end result isn't the same. Its still doing the same steps you would in a computer, just distributed over time, distance, and people.
Is it perfect, no.
Is it sufficient for positive and nefarious purposes - hell yes.
Can it be run in reverse (e.g. what guns does John Doe have?) - hell yes, just takes longer.
But as we have all seen, when the gov't wants to get data it will do whatever it takes to make that happen. The use of electronic 4473s and state records for personal transfers just makes the data set more complete and easier to index. I have shown how trivial the math/compute (translation into $$) is in the past so I won't replicate here. But for those that don't want to search - it is trivial.
Your 4473 does include the make, model, and serial of your weapons. However, when doing a background check, only the fact that it is a handgun, long-gun, or other is disclosed while conducting the background check. It is flat out impossible, in Colorado, for the ATF or CBI to have any registration information on your gun, period, until a ATF trace is requested because LEO has the gun in their possession. (Unless a gun store closes, but still - the ATF trace still works in reverse through the warehouse in Georgia, and is forbidden by law to make a database of those records)
You forget about MSRs - which forever tie the S/N of the weapon to the purchaser and bypass all the rigmarole described above.
Also, the warehouse (of all those old A/D books and paper 4473s) isn't in Georgia. The folks doing all the scanning are in Clarksburg and a few other places. As for the 'database'; you are correct that the ATF/FBI (for all intents and purposes the DoJ) cannot make a 'database' of gun owners and their purchases. Now we can argue over the meaning of 'database'; which the DoJ attorneys are very very clear about. Again, since it isn't all in ONE system, and they have to have outside data, they argue that they don't have the complete means to have/create the prohibited registry. As I explained above, just because you are missing a piece of the data, and/or the data isnt 100% perfect; doesn't mean it isn't good enough for Gov't work.
Now we can argue over the meaning of 'database'; which the DoJ attorneys are very very clear about. Again, since it isn't all in ONE system, and they have to have outside data, they argue that they don't have the complete means to have/create the prohibited registry. As I explained above, just because you are missing a piece of the data, and/or the data isnt 100% perfect; doesn't mean it isn't good enough for Gov't work.
Yeah, they're probably only a pivot table away from having a full database. That is very likely 'by design' to avoid the issue.
Zundfolge
10-08-2017, 21:15
Fact check to stop the routine registration [panic][panic][panic] HOW DO THEY KNOOOOOOOOOW [panic]
The simple truth is that membership on sites like this, purchase of any firearm or firearm accessory with a credit card, subscribing to a gun magazine, membership in the NRA or similar group, subscription to YouTube gun channels ... any of that stuff gets you put on a "list of potential gun owners".
That alone will be enough for them to put you on the list of doors to be kicked in when they decide its time to start kicking in doors and confiscating arms. They don't need a detailed list of make, model and serial number (in fact not having that specific info gives them license to tear your home down to the studs looking for potential contraband firearms).
So I wouldn't worry about it ... if it comes down to it, you're not hiding from the government and they're gonna get you.
So I wouldn't worry about it ... if it comes down to it, you're not hiding from the government and they're gonna get you.
I've been wondering for a while what they could find out about you just by what has gone through the USPS. They may not have details, but they could learn a lot just by the metadata.
...but then again, there's so much data about everyone via the web, that not much is a secret anymore.
To be clear, the critical issue is not about whether or not the Govt knows/believes you are a gun owner. The issue revolves around definitively knowing how many, what type, and where those guns are - by the Govt or anyone else.
http://youtu.be/vmrYVJWwBfE
KevDen2005
10-08-2017, 21:53
http://youtu.be/vmrYVJWwBfE
Ha, I was thinking of that
OtterbatHellcat
10-08-2017, 22:07
Vegas survivor insists on standing to meet President Trump
Kid grew up with some lessons on respect, good on him....and his folks apparently. I wish him and all of the LV victims speedy recovery.
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 22:58
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/yourimage-261-e1506945523361.jpg
What's with the yellow ribbons on their arms? Did I miss something?
BushMasterBoy
10-08-2017, 23:08
The arm bands usually signify entrance to some event.
GilpinGuy
10-08-2017, 23:22
The arm bands usually signify entrance to some event.
Yeah, I put them on dozens and dozens of people every day, but these look different than what I've used over the years, and it's way up on his forearm. I just thought it might be interesting to see what "cause" he and his "companion" were supporting, if that's what they were for. Meh, I'm over-thinking shit as usual.[hammer]
hollohas
10-09-2017, 11:40
Check out this video. Looks like a police officer walks forward into the picture on the left side and raises a weapon (looks like a long gun but it not clear) right as more shooting starts. Then he is seen walking the other direction while looking back over his shoulder when everyone else has hit the deck. Kinda interesting.
https://youtu.be/ueY01JIpQbg
Looks like an officer with a handgun and flashlight to me. Probably couldn't tell where the shooting was coming from.
Timeline/narrative just changed:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/10/09/holy-cow-the-official-mandalay-bay-massacre-narrative-just-completely-changed-latest-presser-video/#more-139665
Well, well, well… the entire previous weeks claims about the timeline and structure of Stephen Paddock and how he carried out the Mandalay Bay Massacre just changed a full 180 degrees today when Sheriff Joseph Lombardo dropped a statement that Paddock did not begin shooting until his advanced preparation was interrupted by Mandalay Bay security officer Jesus “Jose'” Campos.
According to the latest stunning revelation by Sheriff Lombardo, security guard Campos was responding to a door alarm notification, presumably from a fire exit door being opened by suspect Paddock on the 32nd floor. Upon reaching the floor, Campos noticed the hotel room suite door was ajar, and heard the sound of drilling (he didn’t knock).
Paddock was drilling a hole in a door (“adjacent room”) when Campos walked in at 9:59pm. That’s when Paddock opened fire on Campos wounding him in the leg. Immediately thereafter is when Stephen Paddock broke out the windows and opened fire on the crowd below.
This latest revelation is explosive because it shows Paddock was interrupted in the act of preparing for the attack, and not during the commission of the attack itself.
This explains a great deal about the event and why so many advanced preparations appeared not to have been utilized. Unused ammunition, body armor, weapons etc.
This latest crucial bit of information is also explosive in that it may indicate there were other participants that might have been present, later, if the attack plan had proceeded without being interrupted by the security guard (the need for 23 firearms etc.).
Within these latest developments it is entirely possible that Paddock would have had a great deal more effectiveness in the overall attack if he had finished the preparation prior to carrying out the shooting.
The hurried need to carry out some level of the attack despite the interruption might also explain why Paddock just smashed out the windows to begin firing etc. He may indeed have had a much more substantive plan, but was forced to drop that approach by the unexpected interruption prior to the shooting.
This new information essentially changes everything. It is also most likely the reason why the LVMPD have stated they will not hold another presser until Friday.
So a question would be are all of his guns accountef for? If others were going to be involved do they have his guns? No telling what the original plan was. For all we know this could have been something completely different that went sideways and ended up the way it did.
What better cover up than shooting a few hundred people?
hollohas
10-09-2017, 21:32
Wonder if shooting the security officer forced him to start his killing spree before his plan was fully ready? The police have said they think he planned to get away. Maybe he was waiting for accomplices? But he started without them because he knew the secuirty guard was calling him in. That would explain why he had so many guns.
OtterbatHellcat
10-09-2017, 21:34
He may indeed have had a much more substantive plan, but was forced to drop that approach by the unexpected interruption prior to the shooting.
It does give one some more stuff to think about.
If only the Mandalay Bay Security Officers were armed.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
If only the Mandalay Bay Security Officers were armed.
If only they had radios.. err, wait.
Something smells odd here. If the security guard found him why did it take 45 mins to figure out where he was?
GilpinGuy
10-10-2017, 08:05
Didn't the shooting start during the last song of the concert? Seems like possible accomplices were kinda late to the party. Of course he (they) may not have known it was the last song, or maybe they didn't even plan on attacking this event and the security guard showing up initiated the attack early.
newracer
10-10-2017, 08:09
It was the last act but I think they just started.
Assuming he really did not have an intention to attack the concert, and was prompted to move early, what was scheduled within line of sight in the next few days?
Assuming he really did not have an intention to attack the concert, and was prompted to move early, what was scheduled within line of sight in the next few days?
Are you thinking VIPs?
Great-Kazoo
10-10-2017, 08:21
If only they had radios.. err, wait.
Something smells odd here. If the security guard found him why did it take 45 mins to figure out where he was?
The Stardust was one of the few if any, at the time (pre 07) that had armed security. I was told by one of the security supervisors, during an interview, other casinos forwned upon armed security, as it sent the wrong message to patrons. He said those casinos had a higher incident of assaults and attempted robberies since they were not armed.
Once again the "Public Image" puts peoples safety on the back burner, as they have done in schools.
Full cavity search before boarding a plane, acceptable. Being able to defend school kids, WHAT MESSAGE DOES AN ARMED PERSON SAY TO PARENTS AND KIDS?
The usual hysteria of "perception" once again allows more to be killed than saved.
If only they had radios.. err, wait.
Something smells odd here. If the security guard found him why did it take 45 mins to figure out where he was?
Things will continue to smell odd for me until we have all the facts and can verify the narrative(s).
If that happens.
I am not surprised the security guard details were relayed incorrectly initially. Too much chaos for investigators to sort out so soon. But this change in facts raises questions as I'm sure all of us are pondering.
hollohas
10-10-2017, 16:33
I'm starting to wonder if the security guy was involved somehow.
Wounded Mandalay Bay Security Guard Didn’t ID Killer’s Room to Cops for 19 Minutes
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/wounded-mandalay-bay-security-guard-didnt-id-killers-room-to-cops-for-19-minutes/
hollohas
10-10-2017, 16:58
Does anyone here know anything about blood? It seems weird to me that in the suicide photo, there are clearly two separate and distinct blood pools. One dried and soaked into the carpet, obviously much older than the other one that is still pooled and wet. What's up with that?
But, I've never investigated murder scenes so I have NO idea what is normal and what is not when it come to dead guys. Do dead guys bleed again at some point?
Here's a timeline of the Las Vegas shooting -- with the crucial detail police left out last time (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/heres-a-timeline-of-the-las-vegas-shooting-with-the-crucial-detail-police-left-out-last-time/ar-AAtfUzG)
REPORTING FROM LAS VEGAS - Las Vegas police revealed Monday that a hotel security guard was shot in the hallway outside gunman Stephen Paddock's room six minutes before Paddock opened fire on a crowd of concertgoers.
Here is the revised timeline of the incident, as police now understand it:
9:59 p.m.: Hotel security guard is shot by Paddock on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.
10:05 p.m.: First shots fired on music festival. This was seen on closed-circuit television from the concert venue.
10:12 p.m.: First two officers arrive on the 31st floor and announce that the gunfire is coming from directly above them.
10:15 p.m.: The last shots are fired by Paddock.
10:17 p.m.: The first two officers arrive on the 32nd floor.
10:18 p.m.: Security officer tells police he was shot and gives location of the gunman's room.
10:26-10:30 p.m.: Eight additional officers arrive on the 32nd floor and begin to move down the hallway, clearing every room and looking for any injured people. They no longer hear gunfire.
10:55 p.m.: Eight officers arrive in the stairwell at the opposite end of the hallway nearest to Paddock's room.
11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.
11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.
One has to wonder if this attack was made on the intended target/s.
OtterbatHellcat
10-10-2017, 17:47
Does anyone here know anything about blood? It seems weird to me that in the suicide photo, there are clearly two separate and distinct blood pools. One dried and soaked into the carpet, obviously much older than the other one that is still pooled and wet. What's up with that?
But, I've never investigated murder scenes so I have NO idea what is normal and what is not when it come to dead guys. Do dead guys bleed again at some point?
No, I'm not a forensic crime scene guy. We shared some ideas at work about that particular photograph, with the mouth discharge and probably matter on the ceiling or behind him....when the body fell it could have been mostly just blood at first, but if there was a large exit cavity, gravity would have allowed more matter to leak out at a slower rate. I'm gonna ask some folks tomorrow that would know about that, having seeing these types of scenes first hand themselves.
GilpinGuy
10-10-2017, 18:35
Anyone listen to Vin Armani? Man, he has some "interesting" ideas about all of this. I don't buy the drone theory he has, but the background and history of the girlfriend is very curious.
theGinsue
10-10-2017, 19:49
They need to look a lot closer at the security guard.
OtterbatHellcat
10-10-2017, 20:59
there are clearly two separate and distinct blood pools. One dried and soaked into the carpet, obviously much older than the other one that is still pooled and wet. What's up with that?
I didn't wait till tomorrow....coming from the experience of former military, and 30 yr. veteran of EMS Paramedic trauma response, and currently serving in a supervisory position for the best trauma hospital in our state: Looking at the picture over the phone with me, he said the exit cavity was most likely rear of head not the top, and the dried fluid was Cerebral Spinal Fluid which surrounds your brain, and is much thinner that actual blood and would have exited the cavity at a much faster rate than the actual blood and grey matter mixture that followed. He did say that the initial impact of the shot and compression inside his head would have spent much of the grey matter out behind him before the body fell to it's final position.
Cool-aid is going to dry on your living room carpet faster than linguini in a thicker type red sauce. :)
hollohas
10-10-2017, 21:08
I didn't wait till tomorrow....
That is a fantastic explaination! It seemed so strange to me but it makes perfect sense now. I love to learn new stuff. Thank you for that.
Scanker19
10-10-2017, 21:15
Wonder if shooting the security officer forced him to start his killing spree before his plan was fully ready? The police have said they think he planned to get away. Maybe he was waiting for accomplices? But he started without them because he knew the secuirty guard was calling him in. That would explain why he had so many guns.
That's the weirdest part of this for me. Why did he have so many? There were several piles of ammo there, neatly stacked. With 23 guns? Tactically that doesn't make sense. There aren't muskets in that it's quicker to have a bunch loaded to fire in a rapid succession. He planned this out meticulously, so it seems silly for him to have an armory of guns like he's seen to many action movies. That would be like being in the military, and being on an OP and they say, "here's 10000 rounds and 10 machine guns, incase you run out of machine guns..."
OtterbatHellcat
10-10-2017, 21:16
I had been meaning to ask one of those guys about it, I know they see it all the time.
You're welcome, and I hope it didn't bother members or staff in the process.
hollohas
10-10-2017, 21:17
That would be like being in the military, and being on an OP and they say, "here's 10000 rounds and 10 machine guns, incase you run out of machine guns..."
^This made me laugh but it sums it up completely. Perfect analogy.
Seems that every time there is a terrorist attack, people attempt to add more terrorists to the scene/plot.
23 guns is a lot, but trying to determine a logical plan from an illogical wack-job seems futile - given the limited information released.
kidicarus13
10-10-2017, 23:20
Seems that every time there is a terrorist attack, people attempt to add more terrorists to the scene/plot.
So very true.
hollohas
10-11-2017, 05:41
MGM resorts released a statement saying that the new police issued timeline "may not be accurate" in regards to when the security guy was shot. And they would know.
So now the resort is publicly questioning the investigation. This just keeps getting stranger.
Seems that every time there is a terrorist attack, people attempt to add more terrorists to the scene/plot.
23 guns is a lot, but trying to determine a logical plan from an illogical wack-job seems futile - given the limited information released.
The other theory I've heard is he stacked the room with black rifles to promote a ban. As if to say "look how easy this was for me."
Low-info folks who don't shoot fail to see how stupid this line of thinking is (we can reload a mag faster than transition). They just see a bunch of scary guns and think something should be done.
Either theory challenges the narrative that he "just snapped" and went on a rampage.
MGM resorts released a statement saying that the new police issued timeline "may not be accurate" in regards to when the security guy was shot. And they would know.
So now the resort is publicly questioning the investigation. This just keeps getting stranger.
Yup.
colorider
10-11-2017, 08:47
And even stranger.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/las-vegas-shooters-home-broken-into-despite-intense-fbi-police-interest.html
Who broke in and what did they take? What evidence is now gone.
BPTactical
10-11-2017, 09:09
And even stranger.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/las-vegas-shooters-home-broken-into-despite-intense-fbi-police-interest.html
Who broke in and what did they take? What evidence is now gone.
Was just going to post the same link.
The bullshit is piling up deeper....
OneGuy67
10-11-2017, 10:14
And even stranger.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/las-vegas-shooters-home-broken-into-despite-intense-fbi-police-interest.html
Who broke in and what did they take? What evidence is now gone.
It would be pretty easy to see if they followed proper procedure and photographed their conclusion and exit.
KevDen2005
10-11-2017, 10:21
It would be pretty easy to see if they followed proper procedure and photographed their conclusion and exit.
Great, I can't wait to hear how the "plot thickens."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969140/Las-Vegas-gunman-no-abnormalites-brain.html
I thought this was strange, Paddocks brains (currently in a pasta and red sauce like state) has been analyzed and show no abnormalities.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969140/Las-Vegas-gunman-no-abnormalites-brain.html
I thought this was strange, Paddocks brains (currently in a pasta and red sauce like state) has been analyzed and show no abnormalities.
right? other than the fact his gray matter is liquified from a gunshot to the head everything looks normal
sellersm
10-11-2017, 11:18
Forensic acoustic analysis shows location of 2nd shooter:
https://vimeo.com/237467538
hollohas
10-11-2017, 16:11
And the plot thickens.
bobbyfairbanks
10-11-2017, 16:57
Stinky very stinky
Did not calculate for .308 vs .223 - Both rifles were found in his room.
OtterbatHellcat
10-11-2017, 17:51
I noticed that as well.
Did not calculate for .308 vs .223 - Both rifles were found in his room.
Like much aiming was even involved...Pretty sure he wasn't being that 'precise' using bump stocks.
If the number of shots I took didn't matter, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing the math. I'd be walking the shots in.
SideShow Bob
10-11-2017, 19:08
Forensic acoustic analysis shows location of 2nd shooter:
https://vimeo.com/237467538
Link to reliable source ? Or hear-say ?
Like much aiming was even involved...Pretty sure he wasn't being that 'precise' using bump stocks.
If the number of shots I took didn't matter, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing the math. I'd be walking the shots in.
Was referring to the "Forensic Acoustic Analysis" guy's calculations, not the shooter's.
Semi related story with Denver ties. What was this guy thinking?
http://www.9news.com/news/crime/man-threatens-to-make-las-vegas-part-2-attack-on-denver-company-/482525176
Semi related story with Denver ties. What was this guy thinking?
http://www.9news.com/news/crime/man-threatens-to-make-las-vegas-part-2-attack-on-denver-company-/482525176
How did he get a MAC in NYC when they’re illegal?
Will1776
10-11-2017, 21:22
How did he get a MAC in NYC when they’re illegal?
lol
Great-Kazoo
10-11-2017, 21:28
How did he get a MAC in NYC when they’re illegal?
The right neighborhood, friend, someone who knows someone, can get you almost any firearm withing 24 hours, if that.
Throw in the out of state resale, people with questionable south of the border, IRA, italian , MS13 connections the gun one desires is available, for a price.
Think Fast & Furious with an urban twist.
Was referring to the "Forensic Acoustic Analysis" guy's calculations, not the shooter's.
Oh, sorry. I didn't go down that path since I've heard similar shhhtuff regarding the JFK assassination and the source video didn't appear to be worthwhile.
**Disregard. Read ETA**
Apparently the security guard, Jesus Campos, is not a registered security guard and, perhaps, is not even in the Mandalay Bay employee DB...
Hrm.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/las-vegas-security-guard-shot-by-vegas-killer-is-not-registered-as-a-security-guard-in-the-state-of-nevada/
ETA: Apparently a misunderstanding?
http://gotnews.com/exclusive-lauraloomer-mandalay-bay-security-guard-removed-hotel-employee-system/
The right neighborhood, friend, someone who knows someone, can get you almost any firearm withing 24 hours, if that.
Throw in the out of state resale, people with questionable south of the border, IRA, italian , MS13 connections the gun one desires is available, for a price.
Think Fast & Furious with an urban twist.
So there should be a law?
(I should have sarc tagged my post)
Apparently the security guard, Jesus Campos, is not a registered security guard and, perhaps, is not even in the Mandalay Bay employee DB...
Hrm.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/las-vegas-security-guard-shot-by-vegas-killer-is-not-registered-as-a-security-guard-in-the-state-of-nevada/
Not strange at all.
Depending on his citizenship status, might he be known under a different name?
I did work for a large LV casino company 15 years ago and everything is well accounted for FoH/BoH because everything has financial impact and is allocated. My job was to consolidate property data for financial reporting. Fun gig to see house win rates and comps. Labor cost is obviously huge. Facility, HR, IT, legal (lawsuits) all expense lines as well.
So I don't buy for a second that any current employee is not in their "DB." If he gets a paycheck, he is accounted for. Or he wasn't getting a paycheck.
Somewhat related- but I read something interesting about the fear of mass shootings, and why all this knee-jerk reaction stuff is overblown.
Here are the odds of dying of each source:
Heart disease/cancer: 1 in 7
Motor vehicle crash: 1 in 113
Firearm related assault: 1 in 358
Sharp object: 1 in 36,000
Mass shooting: 1 in 110,154. This is the same odds of being killed in a dog attack, or having a death sentence executed on you by legal means.
StagLefty
10-12-2017, 14:01
So if there had been 110,155 concert goers there would have been no deaths ? [Sarcasm2]
So if there had been 110,155 concert goers there would have been no deaths ? [Sarcasm2]
If there had been a sign or if the location had been within a school zone then there would have been no deaths
If there had been a sign or if the location had been within a school zone then there would have been no deaths
But I thought Mandalay Bay Resort/Hotel/Casino was a gun free zone? How did he even get those in there? Did he not see the sign?
But I thought Mandalay Bay Resort/Hotel/Casino was a gun free zone? How did he even get those in there? Did he not see the sign?
Good point
But I thought Mandalay Bay Resort/Hotel/Casino was a gun free zone? How did he even get those in there?
Guns can't read.
Guns can't read.
Isn’t that what firearm education courses are for?
mahabali
10-12-2017, 20:30
your math kinda sucks but on the right track [Beer]
theGinsue
10-12-2017, 21:40
**Disregard. Read ETA**
Apparently the security guard, Jesus Campos, is not a registered security guard and, perhaps, is not even in the Mandalay Bay employee DB...
Hrm.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/las-vegas-security-guard-shot-by-vegas-killer-is-not-registered-as-a-security-guard-in-the-state-of-nevada/
ETA: Apparently a misunderstanding?
http://gotnews.com/exclusive-lauraloomer-mandalay-bay-security-guard-removed-hotel-employee-system/
So, reading the article in the second link, it says that they searched the employee database for all employees whose names started with "J". The Security Guard, Jesus Campos's FIRST name begins with a J. Wouldn't the better search of that database be based off of the LAST name? Did they search against the last name field using his first name? What is Jesus is his middle name and his first name is actually Hector so he prefers to use/identify himself only using his middle name.
I'm going to need something a bot more solid than the data they've provided to agree that the security guard isn't in the employee database.
jhood001
10-12-2017, 21:46
I'm going to need something a bot more solid than the data they've provided to agree that the security guard isn't in the employee database.
You and your fact-based approach to life and standards for living it. Pffhbbthhtbbbtt. [Flower]
OtterbatHellcat
10-12-2017, 21:55
Another PR tomorrow, right? Not an enviable position they're in.
So, reading the article in the second link, it says that they searched the employee database for all employees whose names started with "J". The Security Guard, Jesus Campos's FIRST name begins with a J. Wouldn't the better search of that database be based off of the LAST name? Did they search against the last name field using his first name? What is Jesus is his middle name and his first name is actually Hector so he prefers to use/identify himself only using his middle name.
I'm going to need something a bot more solid than the data they've provided to agree that the security guard isn't in the employee database.
The link I provided originally answered those questions, but now it's not there -- I might have grabbed the wrong link from open tabs.
Reddit has some threads tracking this;
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/75mc78/all_security_personnel_in_nevada_must_register/
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/75lcnd/jesus_campos_removed_from_hotel_employee_system/
Either the apparent security guard is actually "Larry Jesus Campos", or Jesus Campos is not in the MB employee DB.
Kind of a dead lead without being able to see the "L" section in the DB
hollohas
10-13-2017, 13:30
The Hotel now says the security guy was shot just 40-seconds prior to main event. This is the 3rd timeline and directly contradicts the previous two police reported versions.
And, the security guard was apparently going to do some TV interviews, was in the room ready to go and slipped out unnoticed with whereabouts now unknown.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/las-vegas-security-guard-disappears-tv-interviews-article-1.3560378
Bailey Guns
10-13-2017, 15:50
So, security guy is in on it, gets cold feet, Paddock shoots him but security guy gets away, then makes up story and can't keep lies straight, then bails when things start to get out of control for him?
hurley842002
10-13-2017, 16:26
So, security guy is in on it, gets cold feet, Paddock shoots him but security guy gets away, then makes up story and can't keep lies straight, then bails when things start to get out of control for him?
This crossed my mind as well, but "allegedly" the security guy was dispatched to investigate an alarm up there. I don't know what to believe anymore.
Zundfolge
10-13-2017, 16:29
So, security guy is in on it, gets cold feet, Paddock shoots him but security guy gets away, then makes up story and can't keep lies straight, then bails when things start to get out of control for him?
My thought is that security guy is an illegal who's real name may or may not actually be Jesus Campos ... he came across shooter while he was setting up and forced him to move his plans up and now he's afraid he's going to be deported.
Singlestack
10-14-2017, 06:59
There is always a motive for something like this. Always. I don't think it is either possible or plausible the FBI and Clark CO Sheriff dept haven't uncovered it, and therefore know what it is by now. To some extent, the news cycle has already overtaken the story with Weinstein, Iran deal, healthcare EO, etc. My prediction is very little official news will come out until a bland FBI report is released that tells us little more than we already know. I saw the TV interviews with the brother in Florida and found them bizarre. To me, he acted un-credibly and over-the-top. The Sheriff in the press conference yesterday seemed angry/bitter when discussing the change in timeline and suggestions of incompetence in the investigation, and (understandably) acted sad when discussing two cops shot during the incident. I thought the latter part was done to elicit sympathy and maybe take some media heat off the investigation. They also took no questions at all during the press conference, which told me they are aware of the inconsistencies they have reported and didn't want to address.
Frankly, I'm surprised how little information has been released by now for an incident this huge. I also don't think the FBI and a major sheriff's office could be incompetent enough to get so many things wrong in what they disclose to the public - like the check-in date. I don't know whats going on, but this smells fishy to me.
GilpinGuy
10-14-2017, 07:53
One thing that bothers me is the fact that no video or still pics of the d-bag have been released at all, except the one that was immediately shown after the event of him with a shot glass in hand and bleary eyed (makes a good bad guy), then the one with his brother which looks like it was from some time ago. Oh yeah, the one with him lying in a pool of blood. Besides those I haven't seen shit. Maybe I missed some.
I wrote earlier in the thread that casinos don't like to release video or pics of their floor, but this event was rather unusual. Remember when some ignoramus ran into the Bellagio with a gun and a motorcycle helmet on and robbed A LOT of chips? Video and stills of that were released eventually. It's been almost 2 weeks here, and this is "one of the biggest mass shootings in US history". You can't walk ANYWHERE on the strip, inside or outside, and not be on camera. And all we get is 3 still pics of the asshole?
The fact that nothing has been shown of this guy pulling into the parking garage, in an elevator with big bags on a dolly (shit, even a couple of golf bags), him going to his car several times over a day or two, eating at the buffet, etc. is really suspicious. Even grainy, obviously altered pics with portions of the frame blurred out aren't shown. No plea for anyone who was at this place and this time (insert pic or photo) to come forward with any interaction with him? Like cashiers, food servers, etc.?
If I'm wrong here, please share some links. Maybe I really did miss them.
Otherwise, this whole story is a giant [pileoshit]
One thing that bothers me is the fact that no video or still pics of the d-bag have been released at all, except the one that was immediately shown after the event of him with a shot glass in hand and bleary eyed (makes a good bad guy), then the one with his brother which looks like it was from some time ago. Oh yeah, the one with him lying in a pool of blood. Besides those I haven't seen shit. Maybe I missed some.
I wrote earlier in the thread that casinos don't like to release video or pics of their floor, but this event was rather unusual. Remember when some ignoramus ran into the Bellagio with a gun and a motorcycle helmet on and robbed A LOT of chips? Video and stills of that were released eventually. It's been almost 2 weeks here, and this is "one of the biggest mass shootings in US history". You can't walk ANYWHERE on the strip, inside or outside, and not be on camera. And all we get is 3 still pics of the asshole?
The fact that nothing has been shown of this guy pulling into the parking garage, in an elevator with big bags on a dolly (shit, even a couple of golf bags), him going to his car several times over a day or two, eating at the buffet, etc. is really suspicious. Even grainy, obviously altered pics with portions of the frame blurred out aren't shown. No plea for anyone who was at this place and this time (insert pic or photo) to come forward with any interaction with him? Like cashiers, food servers, etc.?
If I'm wrong here, please share some links. Maybe I really did miss them.
Otherwise, this whole story is a giant [pileoshit]
I completely agree.
OtterbatHellcat
10-14-2017, 13:47
Somehow, I think that when the "official" findings come out, after they've concluded the entirety of their investigation.....there will still be a ton of unanswered questions and debatable findings that, those of us who think independently, will not be satisfied with.
Seems even now, that this will forever be one of those JFK type deals. Hopefully not though.
Madeinhb
10-14-2017, 13:48
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/9fe5aeb8fb38a01ed2d0213f8686cd42.jpg
The sheriff has come out upset that people are thinking he may be being less than truthful about what they have found...despite him previously stating that he doesn't have to be truthful about what they have found.
The sheriff has come out upset that people are thinking he may be being less than truthful about what they have found...despite him previously stating that he doesn't have to be truthful about what they have found.
All we want is some facts, not some asshole wasting all of our time talking about his feelings. The level of retardation in the press conferences alone should cost Lombardo his job. I know a lot of it is baked in to waste time and not really give any information away, but still it's pretty bad.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/10/17/reconciling-the-confusion-jesus-jose-campos-missing-is-campos-an-illegal-alien/
Reconciling The Confusion: Jesus “Jose” Campos Missing – Is Campos an Illegal Alien?
...
According to one report surfacing from Laura Loomer, a ground report investigator in Las Vegas, the social security number used by Jose Campos is also shared with a California identity name Jesus Quintero. Which brings up the question CTH posed at the beginning of all the conflicting stories and explanations:
Is Jose Campos an illegal alien?
If Jesus “Jose” Campos is indeed an illegal alien almost all of the challenging and conflicting reports from law enforcement, Mandalay Bay and the FBI begin to reconcile.
Think about it. The legal risk to MGM as a corporation, and Mandalay Bay hotel and Casino specifically, becomes transparent if their employment verification standards would allow an illegal alien to find a job as a security guard.
...
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/10/17/reconciling-the-confusion-jesus-jose-campos-missing-is-campos-an-illegal-alien/
I wondered that a few pages back when folks had a hard time finding his name. That's common. Also common for employees to go by a completely different name than they stole to get the job.
It makes more sense to me also that lawyers have advised him to lay low than the other things I've read (second shooter, abduction, etc). Just looking at the massive tidal wave of liability MGM faces, it would be smart to pay Campos more than people would have offered for his story to keep him quiet and facts consistent. Disappearing Campos would be a massive fail if there is some kind of conspiracy.
And that just makes this worse because we have so many self-interested parties skewing/withholding info...
LV (LVMPD) wants this to die so people feel safe in LV
Victims/families have already hired attorneys to find the deepest pockets
MGM wants to avoid that liability
MSM wants this to be about guns, won't talk about murderer
FBI will never tell us when they knew about a problem (e.g. Orlando) or what they know/knew
The only group that isn't represented is the gun owner. He has to take what's handed out, no matter the facts, no matter how people he never hurt.
Timeline changes again...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5015241/New-timeline-Las-Vegas-massacre.html
And... why did they wait an HOUR to breach? WTH.
Bailey Guns
10-25-2017, 07:48
OK...so after 24 days of investigations let's sum up the facts as we know them:
1) Someone, possibly/probably a guy named Paddock, shot and killed 58 people and wounded several hundred others at an outdoor music festival from the window of a Las Vegas hotel room.
2) Oh...and he used a BUMP STOCK-equipped rifle so we must now ban bump-stocks because WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
Does that about sum it up?
Great-Kazoo
10-25-2017, 08:11
OK...so after 24 days of investigations let's sum up the facts as we know them:
1) Someone, possibly/probably a guy named Paddock, shot and killed 58 people and wounded several hundred others at an outdoor music festival from the window of a Las Vegas hotel room.
2) Oh...and he used a BUMP STOCK-equipped rifle so we must now ban bump-stocks because WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
Does that about sum it up?
Yeppers. Throw in the Fact This shooting has all but gone away, down to the calls for more restrictions.
Which coincided with the SHOCKING REVELATION Harvey Winestein had been sexually assaulting women for DECADES.
Something by all accounts Everyone knew BUT was afraid to say anything due to their concern they would be blacklisted by Hollywood. Suddenly becomes a worldwide call for outrage against men in general. .
DISCLAIMER: The following is My Opinion and does not reflect the opinions of the forum owner[s], moderators or any industry partner.
Had the shooter[s] been Republican voter[s], Trump Supporter[s] OR associated in any way (going back to them wearing a white sheet) for Halloween costume. Grasping to tie them in to some extremist Nazi or White power affiliation . That story would still be front page news.
Instead it has (were did it go) all but disappeared from ANY news source. Leading me to believe he was a serious Bernie or Clinton big money supporter.
THEN throw in this "security Guard" who (to my knowledge) not been seriously questioned by the FBI or other LE agency.
YET.........does some fluff appearance on Ellen??????? [pileoshit]
Something stinks worse than our house after the pups got in to the trash.
Had the shooter[s] been Republican voter[s], Trump Supporter[s] OR associated in any way (going back to them wearing a white sheet) for Halloween costume. Grasping to tie them in to some extremist Nazi or White power affiliation . That story would still be front page news.
Yep. Not to mention no "extreme right winger" would shoot up a country music festival. Now if it was some SJW lashing out at "racist Trump supporters"......
Zundfolge
10-25-2017, 08:57
At this point I believe the government is TRYING to cause massive numbers of conspiracy theories to be created about this.
In other news....
Brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock arrested in child porn case (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/brother-of-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-arrested-in-child-porn-case/ar-AAu2ofw)
LOS ANGELES -- A brother of Las Vegas mass shooter Stephen Paddock was arrested in Los Angeles on Wednesday on suspicion of possessing hundreds of images of child pornography, according to authorities.
Bruce Douglas Paddock, 58, was taken into custody at a nursing facility in the 5300 block of Laurel Canyon Boulevard, in the Valley Village neighborhood, and booked Wednesday morning. Television news footage showed Paddock in a wheelchair being loaded into the back of a van by Los Angeles Police Department officers.
Documents filed Tuesday in Los Angeles County Superior Court outlined 20 criminal charges against Paddock, all related to possession of child pornography or the sexual exploitation of children. The felony complaint for the arrest warrant accused Paddock of having more than 600 pornographic images of children or youths, including 10 or more images showing a child younger than 12.
The investigation of Paddock began after evidence was found in a Sun Valley business where he had been squatting, the LAPD said in a statement. The evidence was found after Paddock was evicted, police said.
Paddock was homeless at the time and couldn't be found, the LAPD said, adding that investigations "recently" tracked him to the North Hollywood facility where he was arrested Wednesday.
A family of 'winners'
The suspect is one of four brothers. Their father, Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, was a convicted bank robber who was once placed on the FBI's Most Wanted list.
Bruce Paddock has had numerous run-ins with local law enforcement over the last 25 years, according to Los Angeles County criminal records.
In 1989, he was charged with assault and battery and criminal contempt of court, although the charges were later dismissed, according to court records.
In 1993, Paddock was charged with annoying a child under 18 but was acquitted, court records show.
Between 1994 and 1995, prosecutors accused Paddock of various property crimes and driving without a license. He twice pleaded no contest to driving on a suspended license and to tampering with a vehicle, according to court documents.
More recently, he was charged with burglary and petty theft while having a previous conviction. He pleaded no contest to petty theft and the burglary charge was dismissed, records show.
In separate cases in 2005 and 2006, Paddock was charged with making verbal threats, vandalism and arson. He was convicted of making threats and vandalism but the arson charges were dismissed.
He was convicted of criminal contempt of court in 2007, according to public records.
Paddock pleaded no contest to vandalism in 2014, court records show.
At this point I believe the government is TRYING to cause massive numbers of conspiracy theories to be created about this.
“Karl! They’re losing interest! Throw some child porn in to the mix and we’ll arrest Cory Feldman!”
68Charger
10-25-2017, 21:46
I wouldn't throw away the possibility the brother is guilty, and a scum...
But I've been told that organized crime will sometimes frame someone for sex offender cases to ruin them, rather than kill them... they are totally discredited, and as a punishment it's a fate worse than death.
Just to bring another conspiracy theory into the mix [shithitsfan]
BushMasterBoy
10-25-2017, 23:50
The .gov & the mob are corrupt. How long does it take to put a series of files on a computer? Threaten the gambling industry in Las Vegas and you are messing with both parties. The guy in a wheelchair and living in a nursing home is a threat to society? Meanwhile Al Qaeda & ISIS are quietly plotting....
Um... what... a person of interest and supposedly primary witness in an active investigation in the supposedly deadliest mass shooting in US history left the country a few days into a hectic investigation and then waltzed back in with nary a problem?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5020107/Jesus-Campos-left-country-just-days-LV-shooting.html
I wouldn't throw away the possibility the brother is guilty, and a scum...
But I've been told that organized crime will sometimes frame someone for sex offender cases to ruin them, rather than kill them... they are totally discredited, and as a punishment it's a fate worse than death.
Reminds me of some hacking ring that got taken down 5 or so years ago. I think there were 3 or 4 people involved and all of their computers were found to have child pr0n on them. Now maybe they all happened to be pedophiles but I thought that was a very convenient set of backup charges to hit them with, for the reasons you mentioned re: sex offenders.
hollohas
10-26-2017, 11:58
Um... what... a person of interest and supposedly primary witness in an active investigation in the supposedly deadliest mass shooting in US history left the country a few days into a hectic investigation and then waltzed back in with nary a problem?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5020107/Jesus-Campos-left-country-just-days-LV-shooting.html
Driving a rental car too. Wonder what, or who, was with him. The missing hard drive perhaps? Other people that made a one-way trip?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/mysterious-missing-vegas-security-guard-left-country-days-after-vegas-massacre
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/25/tucker-carlson-las-vegas-massacre-questions-jesus-campos-security-guard-and-police-hung
BushMasterBoy
10-26-2017, 13:34
Jesus Campos probably went to Mexico because he couldn't afford Obamacare. Amazing how far you can drive on opioids, even with a gunshot wound. I bet the hard drive is in FBI forensics. Media is effing stupid.
This case will be archived like JFK file.
Bailey Guns
10-31-2017, 19:04
Now they're saying a Police Officer had an ND in Paddock's suite...though not in the same room where they found the body.
Curiouser and curiouser...
KevDen2005
10-31-2017, 21:46
Now they're saying a Police Officer had an ND in Paddock's suite...though not in the same room where they found the body.
Curiouser and curiouser...
Like during the investigation?
BPTactical
10-31-2017, 21:57
Like "accidentally" into paddocks chest?
Odd, we knew everything on the Manhattan truck boy in 30 minutes.
A month later, we still know nothing about Vegas other than 58 people lost their lives.
Nothing to see here, move along now....
KevDen2005
10-31-2017, 22:16
Like "accidentally" into paddocks chest?
Odd, we knew everything on the Manhattan truck boy in 30 minutes.
A month later, we still know nothing about Vegas other than 58 people lost their lives.
Nothing to see here, move along now....
Accident implies there was a problem with the firearm and not negligence.
BPTactical
11-01-2017, 05:53
Accident implies there was a problem with the firearm and not negligence.
Uhmm....... OK
Bailey Guns
11-01-2017, 06:22
I read the article on FoxNews. It didn't give any other details and implied the ND round did not strike Paddock.
Bailey Guns
11-01-2017, 07:04
Oopps...wrong thread.
Great-Kazoo
11-01-2017, 08:01
Oopps...wrong thread.
]https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.YnRDw8wH43w3jMj3c5KV8w4l4l&pid=15.1&rs=1&c=1&qlt=95&w=103&h=103
KevDen2005
11-01-2017, 08:12
Uhmm....... OK
I'm just being a smart ass
SuperiorDG
11-01-2017, 08:56
Probably some Carl picked up one of the guns in the room and pulled the trigger.
Probably some Carl picked up one of the guns in the room and pulled the trigger.
Clearing an unfamiliar weapon? Plausible. Not that I believe a fuckin thing we've been told about this incident, as half of it seems to be made up on the spot by the "media". I predict we never know what actually happened, and the evidence all gets locked away under judicial seal until we're all long dead.
Wouldn't EOD scan room first in case dude some Operation Eldest Son style tricks?
Is it standard that Barney Fife just goes grabbing weapons and clearing them on an active crime scene?
sellersm
11-01-2017, 10:52
Clearing an unfamiliar weapon? Plausible. Not that I believe a fuckin thing we've been told about this incident, as half of it seems to be made up on the spot by the "media". I predict we never know what actually happened, and the evidence all gets locked away under judicial seal until we're all long dead.
+1000000000. We knew just about everything about the NYC truck driver within an hour or two after that incident, but many weeks later, we still know next to nothing about this guy or what really happened. Guess they'll put it into a file, right next to JFK assassination.
KevDen2005
11-01-2017, 11:06
+1000000000. We knew just about everything about the NYC truck driver within an hour or two after that incident, but many weeks later, we still know next to nothing about this guy or what really happened. Guess they'll put it into a file, right next to JFK assassination.
How do you know it's all true?
sellersm
11-01-2017, 11:31
How do you know it's all true?
Exactly! "They" want us to "know" stuff about the truck driver. But "they" don't want us to "know" anything about the guy in Vegas? All about shaping opinions, thoughts, responses, etc...
OneGuy67
11-01-2017, 13:46
Wouldn't EOD scan room first in case dude some Operation Eldest Son style tricks?
Is it standard that Barney Fife just goes grabbing weapons and clearing them on an active crime scene?
Unfortunately, there are crime scene classes that teach it is the responsibility of the first responders to make the scene safe for fire personnel and investigators.
A few years ago I handled a police chase that ended in the suspect committing suicide by handgun in an empty church parking lot at midnight. When I got there, the suspect was dead in the front seat of the vehicle, but the handgun used was cleared and lying on the sidewalk a few feet away. When I asked the officer why he did it, he said "officer and crime scene safety". The suspect was dead; he wasn't a threat anymore and the gun wasn't going to jump up and shoot someone else. I prefer to get photos of the scene as it was found, then proceed to clear the weapons and not the other way around.
Unfortunately, there are crime scene classes that teach it is the responsibility of the first responders to make the scene safe for fire personnel and investigators.
A few years ago I handled a police chase that ended in the suspect committing suicide by handgun in an empty church parking lot at midnight. When I got there, the suspect was dead in the front seat of the vehicle, but the handgun used was cleared and lying on the sidewalk a few feet away. When I asked the officer why he did it, he said "officer and crime scene safety". The suspect was dead; he wasn't a threat anymore and the gun wasn't going to jump up and shoot someone else. I prefer to get photos of the scene as it was found, then proceed to clear the weapons and not the other way around.
^^^This.
Unfortunately, there are crime scene classes that teach it is the responsibility of the first responders to make the scene safe for fire personnel and investigators.
A few years ago I handled a police chase that ended in the suspect committing suicide by handgun in an empty church parking lot at midnight. When I got there, the suspect was dead in the front seat of the vehicle, but the handgun used was cleared and lying on the sidewalk a few feet away. When I asked the officer why he did it, he said "officer and crime scene safety". The suspect was dead; he wasn't a threat anymore and the gun wasn't going to jump up and shoot someone else. I prefer to get photos of the scene as it was found, then proceed to clear the weapons and not the other way around.
Yikes! I can see where a lot of things can go wrong at a crime scene. You can imagine the crowd of LE wandering around the Vegas shooters room in the hours after it ended. I'm guessing there was some protocol taught in training right? Lots of things can go askew.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-01/why-has-las-vegas-massacre-disappeared-news-cycle
colorider
11-02-2017, 13:56
News today says a laptop found in the hotel room is missing the hard drive.
I thought the missing hard drive was from his house?
Great-Kazoo
11-02-2017, 16:55
I thought the missing hard drive was from his house?
I think they're having a hard time driving home an agenda
Gcompact30
11-02-2017, 17:32
Take a look at YouTube person by the name of hangman 1128. Very interesting view point.
Vegas shooter had been losing money for two years and 'was going in the wrong direction,' sheriff says (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vegas-shooter-had-been-losing-money-for-two-years-and-was-going-in-the-wrong-direction-sheriff-says/ar-AAunxT0)
Las Vegas shooting: Paddock's girlfriend may be hiding something, sheriff suggests (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/02/las-vegas-shooting-paddocks-girlfriend-may-be-hiding-something-sheriff-suggests.html)
OneGuy67
11-03-2017, 09:02
Yikes! I can see where a lot of things can go wrong at a crime scene. You can imagine the crowd of LE wandering around the Vegas shooters room in the hours after it ended. I'm guessing there was some protocol taught in training right? Lots of things can go askew.
Yes. There shouldn't be lookie loo's walking around the crime scene. A crime scene log should be established immediately documenting who entered and left, what time, date and a supplemental report written by everyone who did enter the scene. This includes the brass and DA's who always want to go in to look.
sellersm
11-08-2017, 18:21
If it couldn't get more convoluted, supposed audio released from emergency dispatchers & air traffic control seem to indicate the official narrative is bunk.
http://www.shtfplan.com/conspiracy-fact-and-theory/new-audio-from-the-night-of-the-las-vegas-massacre-reveals-that-there-was-another-active-shooter-in-the-bar-at-the-top-of-the-mandalay-bay-hotel-during-the-attack_11072017
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KevDen2005
11-08-2017, 19:10
Yes. There shouldn't be lookie loo's walking around the crime scene. A crime scene log should be established immediately documenting who entered and left, what time, date and a supplemental report written by everyone who did enter the scene. This includes the brass and DA's who always want to go in to look.
When I worked in P town I upset the chief when he helped capture a robbery suspect. "I'm gonna need a supp from you on this, sir." No one could believe I asked the chief that.
DavieD55
11-09-2017, 01:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mS6LH6V_0U
Those are not muzzle flashes. Those are strobe lights/anti collision lights.
When I worked in P town I upset the chief when he helped capture a robbery suspect. "I'm gonna need a supp from you on this, sir." No one could believe I asked the chief that.
I've never gone that far... but I did ask my Commander for supp once. He looked at me funny, then laughed and walked away. At least I got one from my SGT, even though he never received a subpoena and I did. [Dunno]
KevDen2005
11-09-2017, 19:26
Those are not muzzle flashes. Those are strobe lights/anti collision lights.
Yeah try explaining that to people without having a massive argument
newracer
11-19-2017, 22:51
Just released that the security guard has been arrested as the second shooter.
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newracer
11-19-2017, 22:54
Not sure if credible.
https://walkwithtimeamerica.com/news/breaking-second-shooter-vegas-massacre-just-arrested-look/
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newracer
11-19-2017, 22:55
I guess not.
https://www.snopes.com/police-arrest-jesus-campos/
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hurley842002
11-20-2017, 06:34
Not sure if credible.
https://walkwithtimeamerica.com/news/breaking-second-shooter-vegas-massacre-just-arrested-look/
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy rule of thumb is, if I I've never heard of the news source, and nobody else is talking about it, it's probably fake news, or if it has to do with Donald Trump and CNN is talking about it, probably fake news.
hollohas
01-13-2018, 12:21
Here's some interesting new information. The bad guy was sending emails between two of his OWN email accounts which seem to suggest he was an arms dealer.
And the hotel's cameras may have not been working...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-13/vegas-gunman-sent-cryptic-email-about-bumpfire-ars-100-round-magazine-massacre
Here's some interesting new information. The bad guy was sending emails between two of his OWN email accounts which seem to suggest he was an arms dealer.
And the hotel's cameras may have not been working...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-13/vegas-gunman-sent-cryptic-email-about-bumpfire-ars-100-round-magazine-massacre
Thanks for bumping... I had read some of this elsewhere. There are lots of theories resurfacing.
Too much liability in a casino to not have all the cameras 100% up. Don't know that I believe it.
The "professional slot machine gambler" thing screamed money laundering from the start. Which is what you'd need to clear cash from any illicit activity.
Gambling seems like the worst way to try and clean money though.
Gambling seems like the worst way to try and clean money though.
20% on someone who can't narc you out, testify against you in court, or shoot you in the face to take all the money sounds decent. I guess that depends on gross. If the guy was still clearing seven figures this isn't a bad loss rate.
And cheaper than taxes.
But I'm no professional.
Here's some interesting new information. The bad guy was sending emails between two of his OWN email accounts which seem to suggest he was an arms dealer.
And the hotel's cameras may have not been working...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-13/vegas-gunman-sent-cryptic-email-about-bumpfire-ars-100-round-magazine-massacre
As foxtrot said, sending email to “oneself” is a way to, generally, keep more control on communications. There was a movie with Don Cheadle... the terrorist? The informant? Something. Anyway, in that movie they didn’t even send to the same account. They just left communications in draft form so it would never “cross the wire”. Not sure if that’s a legit method given most ISP/email provider’s reach (such as we have seen with Google cloud docs being deleted for violating TOS.
There is no guaranty that the money will come back with gambling, not to mention it is time consuming for a not at all sure success. Owning a strip club would be easier. Don't even have to work at the place if you don't want and you can report whatever amount of cash income you want. No one ever gets a receipt at a strip club and good luck getting any of the patrons to admit how much they spend there. Not to mention you can fill your three onsite ATMs with your dirty cash and have your patrons wash it for you ever weekend.
There is no guaranty that the money will come back with gambling, not to mention it is time consuming for a not at all sure success. Owning a strip club would be easier. Don't even have to work at the place if you don't want and you can report whatever amount of cash income you want. No one ever gets a receipt at a strip club and good luck getting any of the patrons to admit how much they spend there. Not to mention you can fill your three onsite ATMs with your dirty cash and have your patrons wash it for you ever weekend.
On a short play, yes you are right.
Play long enough and your loss/"win" rate matches averages. This is true of all games when playing "book." The reason the slots were used is there is no human error or book to play. You put money in, you push a button, you lose according to house rate(s). You can play drunk, tired, stupid, same result.
He had his girlfriend with him to help run the machines (she even loaded mags for the shooting so had no moral hang ups). A person can easily spend through $100/pull on some machines. $5K/hour = $40k a day. Do this on a few trips and it could easily cover seven figures.
You get to pretend to be a big-shot self-made whale (like this POS did) having your every need attended to while doing it. Getting comp'd food/drinks. Casino is your willing accomplice because they wouldn't make any money ratting out stupid gamblers and you look like any other guy with too much money/time on his hands. Ever hear of a casino calling the Feds because a patron consistently loses too much money?
Businesses have problems...
1. You take in regular business income that gets mixed in and have to pay tax on all of it (corp and/or individual)
2. If you don't have the appearance of sufficient regular revenue you have to explain your ability to exist at a loss over a period of years
3. There are multiple state/Fed filings (P&L/corp tax return, BS, 1099s/W-2s, etc) which can contradict each other
4. You have to work or be willing to bring in others to do the work who can extort and expose you. If these people wanted to work they wouldn't be criminals.
Obviously I haven't given much thought to any of this.
This isn't the first guy to run this racket. Feds know this is happening right now, casinos know, locals know. It won't change, too much profit for all concerned. I don't think this kind of thing would work on a larger scale because you're right about the time investment--at some level it doesn't scale.
I was wondering how the 80% payout on machines would work. If anyone has the resources to test how reasonable it is as far as time and actual percentage retained, it's someone with tons of illicit cash. Kind of like the idea that you won't loose more than seven hands of black jack in a row, so double your money each time, only without the actual gambling. Although, I believe the state mandated payout of machines are over their lifetime. Even if the life span of the average Vegas machine is only five years, that's a lot of personal time sitting at the same machine, and a lot more time of not being at the machine for a possible jackpot. Still seems like gambling, but with the awesome benefits that you pointed out. My above example would still be easier, because you don't need the strip club to do it.
I was wondering how the 80% payout on machines would work. If anyone has the resources to test how reasonable it is as far as time and actual percentage retained, it's someone with tons of illicit cash. Kind of like the idea that you won't loose more than seven hands of black jack in a row, so double your money each time, only without the actual gambling. Although, I believe the state mandated payout of machines are over their lifetime. Even if the life span of the average Vegas machine is only five years, that's a lot of personal time sitting at the same machine, and a lot more time of not being at the machine for a possible jackpot. Still seems like gambling, but with the awesome benefits that you pointed out. My above example would still be easier, because you don't need the strip club to do it.
It's fascinating to think about. Living on that side of the law where morality doesn't exist and the only consequence is getting caught. You don't have to be genius level IQ, just slightly smarter than the people you encounter or handle any investigations into you.
I had a friend who very serious about card counting 21 after hearing about MIT's team... Play book and house has a ~14% avg win rate (IIRC). You can shave the odds but it's very easy to get caught because the win/loss rate is so predictable. He never tried it inside of an actual casino and neither have I, but we ran a lot of six deck shoe simulations and had a lot of fun testing it.
Casinos now have real time bank counting, auto shufflers, huge shoes, and facial recognition to keep away the pros. I bet their rates are close to atomic clock consistent.
Yeah I've heard that you can't win too much without being suspect. Seems like the math would always be in the casino's favor regardless. I remember when poker was becoming popular on tv about 15 years ago they had a few reality shows about trying to beat the house and that MIT book (Bringing Down The House)? got another burst of popularity.
I don’t think you would even have to play to wash your cash. You can feed a slot machine 10 hundred-dollar bills then immediately push cash out and get a ticket for a thousand dollars. When you get a bunch of tickets you take them to the cashier and have them put your total “winnings” in a check from the casino. I don’t think they report wins to the state unless you go over $1200 in a single win. Deposit the casino check to your bank account as clean gambling winnings.
GilpinGuy
01-13-2018, 15:08
Playing machines is a terrible way to try to launder cash. Yes, there is a theoretical payback %, but like it's been said, it's over the lifetime of the machine - millions of spins of a slot machine or hands of video poker. We have machines on our floor that are 20+ years old. "Lifetime of the machine" doesn't mean the physical lifetime of the actual machine. It's basically the theoretical payback over an infinite number of games.
Plus, most serious gamblers play with a "players card" of some kind to keep track of their play to get comps. The card records everything, including how much cash you jam into each machine. The Vegas douche (or patsy) did play with a card, since they knew he was a big video poker guy and he got all kinds of shit for comps.
Video poker is the best machine to play though. You actually have some decisions to make in video poker and you effect the outcome by your decisions (which cards to hold or fold). Good gamblers know the odds of each game and play accordingly. Some (very few) are VERY GOOD at video poker and do rather well. Slot machines are completely random - zero skill involved.
The best way to launder in a casino is to
Edit: deleted by me. Maybe not a good idea to post that
As much as we like to say criminals are too lazy to work, white collar crime seems to be a lot of work, just with a better payout than a regular job.
Seems to me that owning a laundromat would be an easier way to launder money. It's an all cash business, no receipts, and it's not a gamble.
As much as we like to say criminals are too lazy to work, white collar crime seems to be a lot of work, just with a better payout than a regular job.
73133
Seems to me that owning a laundromat would be an easier way to launder money. It's an all cash business, no receipts, and it's not a gamble.
It would be a cute way to do it but certainly not easier and more risky.
GilpinGuy
01-13-2018, 15:42
And the hotel's cameras may have not been working...
I find this laughably improbable.
I find this laughably improbable.
All the comments for that article are about how the Saudi's own a stake in absolutely everything and this was their doing, and I find that slightly more plausible than that the cameras weren't working.
All the comments for that article are about how the Saudi's own a stake in absolutely everything and this was their doing, and I find that slightly more plausible than that the cameras weren't working.
The US sells weapons to Saudi Arabia by the literal ship load. Why would they arrange a deal to buy a bunch of semi auto rifles with bumpstocks through some dude in Vegas? Let alone taking the guy up on the offer of a live fire demonstration outside in one of the most heavily surveilled cities on the continent.
I hope you don't really think I think the Saudis are involved. I was just commenting on the unlikelihood of the cameras not working.
I don't think that is the case at all. But I've seen a few people saying it has to do with Saudi Arabia and an arms deal gone bad.
Yeah that is the bulk of the conversation in the comments section of the linked article. It's a dumb conspiracy.
GilpinGuy
01-13-2018, 18:47
Yes. Lots of talk about a Saudi coconnection. Was one of the princes taken away by helicopter during the incident? It's one of the many "facts" floating around but who the hell knows what to believe anymore?
Say he was wisked away during or right after the shooting. How difficult is it to get a helo to the top of a hotel in Vegas on such short notice? Maybe it's just a phone call away if you are a zillionaire, I just don't know.
Well, apparently people were able to take off from Hawaii in airplanes and boats on pretty short notice, so probably not that difficult.
GilpinGuy
01-13-2018, 23:22
Maybe so. I don't hang with folks with a helicopter on speed dial. The prince thing is probably bs anyway.
I don't hang with folks with a helicopter on speed dial.
Oh man, you've got to step up your game!
theGinsue
01-14-2018, 11:54
Right?! Even the now convicted felon Rich Wyatt, formerly of Gunsmoke in Wheat Ridge, had a helicopter on standby. (Wyatts senetencing is scheduled to occur on January 18, 2018 for his conviction on 10 felonies).
Helicopters are old school. I've got a great glass elevator on standby that can take me any direction I want.
OtterbatHellcat
01-14-2018, 17:13
Wonkavator.
BPTactical
01-14-2018, 19:32
Wait.....something happened in Las Vegas?
StagLefty
01-14-2018, 21:01
Wait.....something happened in Las Vegas?
Yeah but it stays there [ROFL2]
Good one StagLefty!! [LOL]
This Vegas massacre is going the way the corrupt FBI wants it to go, it is disappearing into the mists of time.
Isn't that we want? No bumpfire ban, less pressure for hi cap or AW bans, since this never happened?
Not as sexy for the anti gunners since it was not little kids being slaughtered.
Isn't that we want? No bumpfire ban, less pressure for hi cap or AW bans, since this never happened?
Not as sexy for the anti gunners since it was not little kids being slaughtered.
No, no, no, you've got it all wrong!
It happened in the context of gun control. It just didn't happen in any other context because the narrative is challenged.
You've got to hand it to obvious conspiracy of gov/media. They get infinite do overs and the ability to suppress any facts that may set back the goal which outweighs any other burden (like telling the truth).
UrbanWolf
01-15-2018, 12:24
Whole event disappearing into mists? Guess what happens in Vegas do stay in Vegas.
Slowly more things are coming out- and if you have the time, there is a link to the latest 81-page report by LVPD on the incident...
Looks like this guy had some kiddie pr0n on his computer, too.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/19/las-vegas-shooter-paddock-had-child-porn-on-computer-fbi-investigating-person-interest-sheriff.html
kidicarus13
01-19-2018, 13:51
Slowly more things are coming out- and if you have the time, there is a link to the latest 81-page report by LVPD on the incident...
Looks like this guy had some kiddie pr0n on his computer, too.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/19/las-vegas-shooter-paddock-had-child-porn-on-computer-fbi-investigating-person-interest-sheriff.html
Lots of newly released photos of AR with bump stocks... just in time for the legislative session. They timed it just right if you're anti-2a
Is Paddock like a Dem carrot to lead the masses to accepting something they otherwise wouldn't? Or just a happenstance they like to keep in their back pocket for treatment in the same? Hrm
If I wrote an AAR like that (shit seriously missing in key places) I would have my ass handed to me.
I'm going to go out to the range to see if I can do 300 rounds a minute from my ARs - with reloads from multiple magazines.
If I wrote an AAR like that (shit seriously missing in key places) I would have my ass handed to me.
I'm going to go out to the range to see if I can do 300 rounds a minute from my ARs - with reloads from multiple magazines.
Do you have a slide fire?
Do you have a slide fire?
I have some belt feds and full autos, will that work? ;)
I have some belt feds and full autos, will that work? ;)
Wouldn't be a proper experiment for re-creation of his firing rate/capability.
I have some belt feds and full autos, will that work? ;)
If that is true, take me with you! [MG]
hollohas
01-19-2018, 16:04
www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-19/child-porn-found-vegas-shooters-computer-new-photos-show-grizzly-hotel-room-scene
Check out the pictures in the link. There are guns randomly thrown about on every surface. That's freaking weird.
Edit: looks like the gun inventory is from his home...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180119/c9e36c9a83c2d8f0be4d679b4fe49424.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180119/2ae5e82bf6e6f3b3a5f0103bbbeda7d2.jpg
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