Las Vegas Incident

[GilpinGuy]

Shit is going down in Vegas with multiple gunshot casualties at Mandalay Bay and the active shooter is moving between other locations. ** According to my scanner. Hopefully this is bad info.

[BushMasterBoy]

Supposedly one officer shot.

[crashdown]

Sounds like a massacre.
Full auto spraying into crowd happening live on the news.

[bradbn4]

scanner

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/21038/web

[BushMasterBoy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lxd51nWZCk

[UrbanWolf]

Really sounds like a belt feed machine gun, very consistent rate of fire. Could be organized attack, or at least more prepared than a random mass shooter, someone who knows to find elevated position too.

[BushMasterBoy]

LVMPD Reports one suspect down.

[GilpinGuy]

LVMPD Reports one suspect down.

In his hotel room room with "multiple weapons". Hopefully, just one asshole but there continue to be reports of new gunshot casualties in other areas of the city.

[BushMasterBoy]

In a city of over 600,000 you will have people taking advantage of this kind of situation. I am going to wild guess this was a single shooter.

[GilpinGuy]

I think you're spot on. One douchebag shooter.

[kwando]

https://everipedia.org/wiki/geary-danley/

[Colorado Osprey]

https://everipedia.org/wiki/geary-danley/

How was this guy supposed to be connected?

Haven't heard his name involved at all.

Interesting 24 hours:
Car crash into people, gets out and knife people- Edmonton Alberta CND
Another knifing on a train in Marseille France

Situational Awareness

[theGinsue]

Prayers out to all involved.

Another nut with firearms that makes the rest of us look very bad.

Very tragic event.

[TRnCO]

my guess is the shooter will be found to be a left wing radical but the media will spin it some how. AND, from the footage I've seen, he was shooting full auto, so WHAT will the media call the weapon/s used. Certainly weren't the dreaded AR15 that they consistently called "Full auto".
Prayers to all those affected.

[Rooskibar03]

Holy cow this one is bad. Yikes.

[KevDen2005]

my guess is the shooter will be found to be a left wing radical but the media will spin it some how. AND, from the footage I've seen, he was shooting full auto, so WHAT will the media call the weapon/s used. Certainly weren't the dreaded AR15 that they consistently called "Full auto".
Prayers to all those affected.

The sounds in the video definitely sound full auto, I'm wondering what he had for sure.

Reading "more than 50 killed" This is pretty bad when they don't have numbers. Two officers wounded from what I read, an off duty officer killed (not sure if he was attending the concert or working "off duty" for the concert).

[Gman]

Wow. Prayers outbound.

Just saw the video. I'm guessing something in .30 cal. range. 50+ dead, 400 wounded. Perp was 64 years old from Nevada.

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[ACE2GOOD]

This one hits close to home for our family. Hold your family tight. Get ready for the political agenda after this one.

[Skip]

So sad.

[Zundfolge]

During these kinds of news events I've found that Heavy.com has the best, most up-to-date and uncolored coverage.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-route-91-mandalay-bay-shooting-shooter-gunman-suspect-photos-motive/

[68Charger]

horrible, just horrible- prayers for the victims and their friends and family.

[buckshotbarlow]

Man, this flat out sucks period. My biggest fear is now it sets an example for copy cats.

[feal]

not making light of the situation but im curious on how many people were shot vs trampled etc.... reports say 50+dead 400+ injured but not how

[dogbreath650]

During these kinds of news events I've found that Heavy.com has the best, most up-to-date and uncolored coverage.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-route-91-mandalay-bay-shooting-shooter-gunman-suspect-photos-motive/

Thanks for the link. Been looking for a "just the facts" news feed without political slant - this may be it...

[Mtneer]

Just looked it up on Google Earth. The distance was about 400 yards.

[CS1983]

Just looked it up on Google Earth. The distance was about 400 yards.

Don't forget to account for true distance based on the angle of fire.

[sellersm]

Hal Turner's coverage: http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/1349-more-than-50-killed-200-injured-as-shooter-opens-fire-on-outdoor-music-concert-in-las-vegas

An aggregate article. My suspicious meter is pegged at the moment, no matter what really happened, this will be used against us.
http://allnewspipeline.com/Vegas_Death_Toll_Rises.php

Note the different sounds of fire, weapons changed?

Some other vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTf0dczD6jA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vWnkgPFc28

[hollohas]

Just looked it up on Google Earth. The distance was about 400 yards.It looked to me like it was pretty far away too.

Almost exactly like the fictional mass shooting event in the opening pages of the book Enemies Foreign and Domestic except the venue in the book was a NFL stadium...

Long range shots on a packed crowd, stampede to follow causes even more casualties...

Scary.

[Zundfolge]

My brother is in Vegas and thus has his ear to the ground and is getting to hear all the half truths and speculation and skuttle-butt.

Some of what he's hearing is that this guy was a "Class 3 dealer" and the gun used was an M249. Also there's witness reports of some woman running around the front of the crowd telling them they were all about to die ( https://streamable.com/fn0fz ). And apparently the AntiFa faction in Melborne Aus. has posted on facebook saying "One of our comrades from our Las Vegas branch has made these fascist Trump supporting dogs pay."

So expect a lot of nonsense in the next few hours.

[mb504]

It looked to me like it was pretty far away too.

Almost exactly like the fictional mass shooting event in the opening pages of the book Enemies Foreign and Domestic except the venue in the book was a NFL stadium...

Long range shots on a packed crowd, stampede to follow causes even more casualties...

Scary.


That was exactly my thought... I wonder if the reason is the same.

[Gman]

Some of what he's hearing is that this guy was a "Class 3 dealer" and the gun used was an M249.
That would be counter to what his brother said about him. Said he had a couple of pistols and a rifle in a safe. Wasn't really into guns, had no military background.

The whole thing is weird. Then again, I have difficulty processing the irrational. I understand how amazingly vulnerable our society is, but no rational reason for why someone that wants to die takes innocent people with them.

[hollohas]

Also there's witness reports of some woman running around the front of the crowd telling them they were all about to die ( https://streamable.com/fn0fz ).



Multiple reports and multiple witness of this...

[Zundfolge]

That would be counter to what his brother said about him.
Yeah, that's kind of my point.

Everyone needs to get a couple pounds of salt and put a grain with each "fact" they hear over the next few hours.

[opie011]

Incredibly sad....

Probably created by the left to take focus off the NFL protests[shithitsfan]

[Dave_L]

That would be counter to what his brother said about him. Said he had a couple of pistols and a rifle in a safe. Wasn't really into guns, had no military background.



This leads me to believe he absolutely had help then. That would also answer the question of how he got so many weapons to the room without being noticed too. 10 different people, all bring in one gun in a suitcase, bring it to his room. He just shows up and does the deed.

[Will1776]

It sounds to me like there are two people on two machine guns from the video. Not to mention the hispanic lady and man who went around telling people they were going to die.

[hollohas]

And his roomie just happened to be out of the country?

[Zundfolge]

And his roomie just happened to be out of the country?

That could be the motive right there ... his girlfriend may have dumped him and gone home to the Philippines to visit relatives? (pure speculation here).

[StagLefty]

I've been giving about 12 hours on these incidents before anyone is reporting "truer facts."

[sniper7]

Hal Turner's coverage: http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/1349-more-than-50-killed-200-injured-as-shooter-opens-fire-on-outdoor-music-concert-in-las-vegas

An aggregate article. My suspicious meter is pegged at the moment, no matter what really happened, this will be used against us.
http://allnewspipeline.com/Vegas_Death_Toll_Rises.php

Note the different sounds of fire, weapons changed?

Some other vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTf0dczD6jA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vWnkgPFc28

In that second video starting around 2:45 you can hear two distinct sounds. I've never been in combat or shot at, so hopefully some with more experience can say. But is that two shooters, possibly 1 shooter who is shooting inside, then outside so you get different sounds, or what my strongest feeling is due to the distance, the lower muffled sound is the actual gunfire and the louder noise is the rounds actually contacting ground nearby the person filming.

[gnihcraes]

I'm guessing echo from the shots.

[RblDiver]

So, in the middle of the tragedy, I have to say, drunk man giving the shooter the finger is a great response. https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/10/02/videos-concertgoer-gives-shooter-the-finger-during-attack-civilians-rush-to-aid-the-wounded-was-there-a-warning/

[RblDiver]

Interesting. What apparently gave him away so (relatively) quickly: The smoke from his gun set off the smoke detector. https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/914822640849833984

[mattiooo]

This leads me to believe he absolutely had help then. That would also answer the question of how he got so many weapons to the room without being noticed too. 10 different people, all bring in one gun in a suitcase, bring it to his room. He just shows up and does the deed.

That's extreme speculation and not even necessary. A large duffel bag could hold 5 or more assault rifles, and nobody would look twice as it rolled by on a luggage cart. Even the bellhop putting that on a luggage cart wouldn't know what it is. As a photographer I have many times rolled my light stand bag around hotels, which could easily hold that many rifles, and not so much as a sideway glance. I have 6 light stands, 2 boom arms and a softbox in it. Each light stand is larger than a rifle.

[Gman]

It's really difficult to tell, but it sounds like a lot of echoes are in play. There were people there that couldn't tell which building the shots were coming from.

[MarkCO]

Having traveled to many majors, including LV, staying in a hotel with from 1 to 12 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. No-one has ever even blinked an eye at me when a baggage cart full of guns rolls by.

Lots of speculation as to guns, cyclic rate, reloading etc. Having been involved in forensic analysis of shootings, sound recordings are always a bit suspect and often do not reflect reality. Having watched several videos now, it seems that he initially shot out both windows and then went back and forth between them. There are at least three different sounds of the guns fired with pauses that make sense in terms of moving from one window (platform) to the other. I would surmise that we will find out he never reloaded, but shot a mag and then went to another gun. But surely, it seems hundreds of rounds were fired into the crowd indiscriminately. Very sad no matter what he actually did. Fortunately he was not smart enough to figure out the smoke detectors.

[Martinjmpr]

There's an old military axiom that says "the first report from the battlefield is always wrong."

We're not going to know what happened for a while yet. Lots of speculation mixed in with the facts and unfortunately, lots of opportunities for people with agendas to inject "fake facts" into the news stream.

[Circuits]

As someone who has shot a crapload of different machineguns, I can tell you the following.

Weapons were changed at least twice. The apparent "multiple shooters" were clearly one shooter using long bursts or dumps, with echos off all those tall buildings nearby. No beltfeds were used, or the sustained bursts would have been longer, and no change in tempo of the shots which I observed on several of the strings. Likely using drum magazines, which do show that slow-at-first, then getting faster shot tempo as the mag empties. Some of the bursts were made only using 30rd magazines, while there were larger magazines or drums used for others.

Shots were likely from real machineguns, not a bumpstock or bump firing. Other than the slow-then fast tempo, the shots were very, very regular. Not sure if they were conversions or came that way from the factory, and there's no practical difference in how they're used.

[BladesNBarrels]

Las Vegas Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said shooter was at Mandalay Bay since 28th and could bring guns in with multiple trips, or in a golf bag, or other means.
They are investigating.
Clark County Sheriff's Office and Las Vegas Metro Police were merged in 1973 and headed by the elected Sheriff.
Interesting chain of command.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I haven't been in combat either but I would expect some echoing given the structure of Mandalay and the venue that was the target zone. I'm waiting for more information -- too many guesses and distortions right now, not enough facts. The worst evidence we have are "eyewitness reports". Look at all the "eyewitness" accounts and "evidence" that's STILL being cited by 9/11 "truthers".

The information provided by the brother is inconsistent with the preparation and kind of fire you hear on the recordings but then again, who knows what the brother really knows? I know squat-all about what my brother is doing these days except when someone else in the family happens to let something slip in text messages -- not because we hate each other (we don't) but because we each have our own lives and are separated by time zones and thousands of miles. I have one set of neighbors that knows anything about me and the rest wouldn't be able to say anything knowledgeable if asked by a reporter ... but they'd probably feel obliged to say SOMETHING just because "interview" ...

[DireWolf]

In that second video starting around 2:45 you can hear two distinct sounds. I've never been in combat or shot at, so hopefully some with more experience can say. But is that two shooters, possibly 1 shooter who is shooting inside, then outside so you get different sounds, or what my strongest feeling is due to the distance, the lower muffled sound is the actual gunfire and the louder noise is the rounds actually contacting ground nearby the person filming.


Some of that (louder sounds in video at specified time-mark) sounded very much like supersonic crack from rounds passing by in close-proximity (not impacts)

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[hollohas]

So, in the middle of the tragedy, I have to say, drunk man giving the shooter the finger is a great response. https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/10/02/videos-concertgoer-gives-shooter-the-finger-during-attack-civilians-rush-to-aid-the-wounded-was-there-a-warning/'MURICA.

[thvigil11]

So much not adding up at this point. What we see of "shooter" doesn't make sense. Especially with having a potential of multiple FA weapons. 4.5 minutes of gunfire followed by over an hour to find and breach room. Leaves a lot of time for other actor/ actors to set up and evac site. My spidey sense at this point leads me to think this guy was not the shooter, but a gambler who happened to have booked a room with a great vantage of the venue.

As for the differences in sound. FA bouncing off buildings, two different shooting angles from each window, and whether or not the muzzle was inside the room verses outside window, those could all affect the sound generated. Could easily have been all shots from one weapon.

[Zundfolge]

My spidey sense at this point leads me to think this guy was not the shooter, but a gambler who happened to have booked a room with a great vantage of the venue.
Of all the unfounded and wild conspiracy theories I've heard yet, that's the first one that makes any sense.

[DireWolf]

Given that casinos are some of the most heavily surveilled places on Earth, would it be unreasonable to assume that video should exist of this guy from the moment he walked in the front door all the way up to the door to his room?

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[hollohas]

Good thing casino's have lots of cameras. If there was anyone who left that room, I'm sure they'll see it.

But, you'd think guests staying near that room would have heard the shooting and called it in. I'm certain I would know if some dude was shooting out of a room next to the one I was staying in...

I don't know how long it took to have police find the room, but I would think they could have narrowed it down pretty quickly.

[BladesNBarrels]

Of all the unfounded and wild conspiracy theories I've heard yet, that's the first one that makes any sense.

"Police say he killed himself before they reached him. "

Adding to the conspiracy.

[thvigil11]

Good thing casino's have lots of cameras. If there was anyone who left that room, I'm sure they'll see it.

But, you'd think guests staying near that room would have heard the shooting and called it in. I'm certain I would know if some dude was shooting out of a room next to the one I was staying in...

I don't know how long it took to have police find the room, but I would think they could have narrowed it down pretty quickly.

It was an hour and 15 between initial call of gunfire, to the breaching of the room.

[kidicarus13]

You can tell liberals write the headlines... 72170

[.455_Hunter]

Fiddler's Green has several buildings that overwatch the venue. Never really considered it a threat before, but may need to going forward.

[ray1970]

I just heard a funny one. ISIS is claiming responsibility.

[68Charger]

So much not adding up at this point. What we see of "shooter" doesn't make sense. Especially with having a potential of multiple FA weapons. 4.5 minutes of gunfire followed by over an hour to find and breach room. Leaves a lot of time for other actor/ actors to set up and evac site. My spidey sense at this point leads me to think this guy was not the shooter, but a gambler who happened to have booked a room with a great vantage of the venue.

As for the differences in sound. FA bouncing off buildings, two different shooting angles from each window, and whether or not the muzzle was inside the room verses outside window, those could all affect the sound generated. Could easily have been all shots from one weapon.

This is what popped in my head as well... was just going to post this as a theory when I read your post.

ETA: the other tin-foil theory is that the female "girlfriend" from Indonesia converted him, exploited his anger from live events and people she knows set him up with guns, etc...
but the above theory makes more sense to me.

[Joe_K]

The sounds from the various audio clips I’ve heard sound like rounds snapping by, followed by the sound of the report from the muzzle a split second later. Basing this assertion off of memories working the target butts and firefights in Afghanistan.

The wife sent me the screenshot a few hours ago. I don't buy it at this pount, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/8429e3163c424939923a6fccf289a9cb.jpg

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[CS1983]

SHARE Act just mentioned by "news" reporter during press conf.

Bye-bye SHARE Act.

[hollohas]

It was an hour and 15 between initial call of gunfire, to the breaching of the room.

That's surprising considering the broken windows were a dead giveaway of his location as well. I can't imagine the chaos trying to respond to something like this...

[CS1983]

Manny what's his name, some former Special Agent being interviewed on MSNBC, is a dolt.

Building a strawman on SHARE act and use of suppressors (which weren't used in LV).

Claiming sportsman want them to keep deer from hearing the shot but from muskets to now, hunters have hunted without them successfully.

What an utter faggot.

[hollohas]

SHARE Act just mentioned by "news" reporter during press conf.

Bye-bye SHARE Act.

Hillary made sure to mention it in her very 1st 'tweet' about it this morning. The media was sure to follow. Dems never let a tragedy go to waste...

[Gman]

Dems never let a tragedy go to waste...
Truth.

Based on one of the links earlier in this thread, I thought the girlfriend that was out of the country was in Dubai.

[SuperiorDG]

Hillary made sure to mention it in her very 1st 'tweet' about it this morning. The media was sure to follow. Dems never let a tragedy go to waste...

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/02/gop-congress-gun-laws/

[Singlestack]

Watching Fox a few minutes ago, the police said the ISIS claim was BS. Although thats possible, I don't know how they could be that sure so fast.

I saw the interview with his brother. In my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong, he appeared to me he knew he wasn't saying the truth. Could be trying to protect his family, himself, etc. I just know that if I were him I absolutely wouldn't come outside my house to talk to TV reporters right away.

[mutt]

Hillary made sure to mention it in her very 1st 'tweet' about it this morning. The media was sure to follow. Dems never let a tragedy go to waste...

Funny how she had this ready to go. Now silencers and SHARE are part of "the conversation". Makes the conspiracy theorist in me wonder about the timing of these horrible events.

I ask what silencers have to do with this tragedy? Same outcome would have occurred whether he had a can or not. Only difference is he wouldn't have suffered permanent hearing damage before blowing his brains out. Silencers aren't too hard to acquire legally and they aren't hard to build on your own if you want an illegal one. If he wanted a silencer, he would of had one regardless of the law. And these idiots need to stop getting all their gun knowledge from movies. Silencers are hardly silent when used with semi autos firing supersonic ammo.

[Gman]

Geeze....hundreds of violations of existing laws, but we need yet another one. That'll do it.

When someone is willing to trade their life to execute a plan, laws don't mean bupkis. END OF DISCUSSION.

Someone could have pulled an OKC maneuver (with a rental truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil driven into the crowd and detonated). This has nothing to do with the tool used to kill.

...but those that want control of the masses don't care.

[CS1983]

Geeze....hundreds of violations of existing laws, but we need yet another one. That'll do it.

When someone is willing to trade their life to execute a plan, laws don't mean bupkis. END OF DISCUSSION.

Someone could have pulled an OKC maneuver (with a rental truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil driven into the crowd and detonated). This has nothing to do with the tool used to kill.

...but those that want control of the masses don't care.
+1

[Scanker19]

Probably an attempt to disarm as many people before the up coming civil war.

[hollohas]

Someone could have pulled an OKC maneuver (with a rental truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil driven into the crowd and detonated). This has nothing to do with the tool used to kill.



A sidebar on this...

I once had an industry trade show in Vegas (2011’ish). We had an evening event for 3 nights in a suite at one of the newer large, main casino hotels on the strip. I built the product displays for the event in my garage, loaded them into a U-Haul and drove them to Vegas. Now, you can’t exactly grab moving dollies and roll a bunch of large displays through the casino to the hotel elevators, so we drove around the building to find the loading dock which was below ground level. We drove our happy asses right under the building, in a U-Haul, without a single security check. Not one person stopped to ask us who we were, what we were delivering or where we were going.

We offloaded some displays, wandered around through the services hallways (which are extensive) until we passed a maid and asked where the service elevators were. This person pointed us in the right direction and we brought the displays up to the suite. This went on for multiple trips over a couple hours. Same in reverse when our event was over. Not a SINGLE contact by casino personnel other than when we asked for directions.

Freaked me out.

[KevDen2005]

I read an article earlier in the day that the shooter "converted" a rifle to shoot automatic. Now I can't find it. Anyone have it?

[Madeinhb]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/4e61873a649094704f6fdddaf435b8e7.jpg

[Joe_K]

So lets see the facts:

#1) LEO have to finger a shooter immediately after an active shooter event of this magnitude.
#2) LEO will virtually never admit mistake when they finger the wrong person after an active shooter event. (Reference black guy plastered all over by Dallas PD in the last shooting - he was alive, and had to do a dozen interviews before they finally corrected it)
#3) Over an hour goes by without identifying an active shooter.
#4) They find a dead guy in a room. Almost 60 years old.
#5) When they catch a perp in the act of any other crime (Politician with his pants down behind a teenage boy) they are merely a "suspected" criminal.
#6) But - dead guy in a room? Jury's seen the evidence, returned a verdict, we found and identified the active shooter.
#7) Further information comes out as they dig to prove he's a psychopath - he did some moderately high gambling transactions. OOOO suspicious. For an old guy, in Las Vegas, in a hotel next to a casino.
#8) I'm aware of no active shooter of this age. Ever. Someone might correct me. Guy doesn't fit M.O.
#9) Nobody has yet to come forward saying "Yup, that guy was psycho"
#10) If he isn't the shooter at this point, it would take an act of god and a communist invasion before any mistake would be admitted.

I want to see security video of this guy, entering and exiting the hotel room with the various bags and/or any other implicating security video. If none of that is ever released, pretty sure that will tell me all I need to know.Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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[KevDen2005]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/4e61873a649094704f6fdddaf435b8e7.jpg

I wonder if people are just so lazy these days they are just claiming things. Antifa and ISIS have both claimed this. I read an article the other day about Antifa trying to start a civil war and realized it was from Info Wars.

[KevDen2005]

Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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During a tragedy of this magnitude it just doesn't seem like enough. I'm hoping some truth of to what happened really does get released to the public.

[kidicarus13]

Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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if you really want to know... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-some-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/

Although conspiracy beliefs can occasionally be based on a rational analysis of the evidence, most of the time they are not. As a species, one of our greatest strengths is our ability to find meaningful patterns in the world around us and to make causal inferences. We sometimes, however, see patterns and causal connections that are not there, especially when we feel that events are beyond our control.

The attractiveness of conspiracy theories may arise from a number of cognitive biases that characterize the way we process information. “Confirmation bias” is the most pervasive cognitive bias and a powerful driver of belief in conspiracies. We all have a natural inclination to give more weight to evidence that supports what we already believe and ignore evidence that contradicts our beliefs. The real-world events that often become the subject of conspiracy theories tend to be intrinsically complex and unclear. Early reports may contain errors, contradictions and ambiguities, and those wishing to find evidence of a cover-up will focus on such inconsistencies to bolster their claims.

“Proportionality bias,” our innate tendency to assume that big events have big causes, may also explain our tendency to accept conspiracies. This is one reason many people were uncomfortable with the idea that President John F. Kennedy was the victim of a deranged lone gunman and found it easier to accept the theory that he was the victim of a large-scale conspiracy.

Another relevant cognitive bias is “projection.” People who endorse conspiracy theories may be more likely to engage in conspiratorial behaviors themselves, such as spreading rumors or tending to be suspicious of others' motives. If you would engage in such behavior, it may seem natural that other people would as well, making conspiracies appear more plausible and widespread. Furthermore, people who are strongly inclined toward conspiratorial thinking will be more likely to endorse mutually contradictory theories. For example, if you believe that Osama bin Laden was killed many years before the American government officially announced his death, you are also more likely to believe that he is still alive.
None of the above should indicate that all conspiracy theories are false. Some may indeed turn out to be true. The point is that some individuals may have a tendency to find such theories attractive. The crux of the matter is that conspiracists are not really sure what the true explanation of an event is—they are simply certain that the “official story” is a cover-up.

[Joe_K]

I'm not saying it wasnt more than were being told.

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[Great-Kazoo]

I'm not saying it wasnt more than were being told.

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Aliens , Definitely Aliens.

[68Charger]

Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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What goals? Where's the manifesto, the troubled past, the psychotroptic drugs, something that would drive a person insane enough that this kind of evil is plausible?

In the vacuum of a motive, the mind searches for answers that make sense.

[KevDen2005]

What goals? Where's the manifesto, the troubled past, the psychotroptic drugs, something that would drive a person insane enough that this kind of evil is plausible?

In the vacuum of a motive, the mind searches for answers that make sense.

I'm not saying there isn't more, but I do believe evil exists without any of those other things.

[kidicarus13]

Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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I'm not saying it wasnt more than were being told.

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See POST #89

[Joe_K]

72178Lol

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[kidicarus13]

Why does it always have to be something bigger than just one guy driven by his own goals?

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I'm not saying it wasnt more than were being told.

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https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/170/650/650170.gif (https://goo.gl/images/rCsgFo)

[Joe_K]

We are being told one gunman with no known motive, at least the reports I've heard/seen. Inthe

The theory that the lead suspect was an unlucky gambler at the wrong place at the wrong time could also be true. I'm merely questioning why people struggle to find it possible that there is this level of evil in the heart of one man. BUT I'm sure if it was indeed this one man, that theres more details to it than we've been told so far.

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[sellersm]

So lets see the facts:

#1) LEO have to finger a shooter immediately after an active shooter event of this magnitude.
#2) LEO will virtually never admit mistake when they finger the wrong person after an active shooter event. (Reference black guy plastered all over by Dallas PD in the last shooting - he was alive, and had to do a dozen interviews before they finally corrected it)
#3) Over an hour goes by without identifying an active shooter.
#4) They find a dead guy in a room. Almost 60 years old.
#5) When they catch a perp in the act of any other crime (Politician with his pants down behind a teenage boy) they are merely a "suspected" criminal.
#6) But - dead guy in a room? Jury's seen the evidence, returned a verdict, we found and identified the active shooter.
#7) Further information comes out as they dig to prove he's a psychopath - he did some moderately high gambling transactions. OOOO suspicious. For an old guy, in Las Vegas, in a hotel next to a casino.
#8) I'm aware of no active shooter of this age. Ever. Someone might correct me. Guy doesn't fit M.O.
#9) Nobody has yet to come forward saying "Yup, that guy was psycho"
#10) If he isn't the shooter at this point, it would take an act of god and a communist invasion before any mistake would be admitted.

I want to see security video of this guy, entering and exiting the hotel room with the various bags and/or any other implicating security video. If none of that is ever released, pretty sure that will tell me all I need to know.

Forgot one: "lone wolf" has already been spread all over by the 'authorities'.

When they find the disgruntled "suicide note" left by the supposed shooter, then that seals the deal for me. Fits every other MO of a false flag shooting event.

[DireWolf]

As has been mentioned previously, considering that you likely can't even scratch your balls in a casino without being picked up by a half-dozen or more cameras, the amount of video released (or not released) will be very telling - one way or another...

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[MrAK]

As has been mentioned previously, considering that you likely can't even scratch your balls in a casino without being picked up by a half-dozen or more cameras, the amount of video released (or not released) will be very telling - one way or another...

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Colorado gaming laws are modeled after those of Nevada. If the footage is “lost” or “inconclusive” then there’s no doubt of coverup

[Bailey Guns]

I had time to sit down and start listening to the scanner traffic. The last time I heard anything that confusing was the morning of the Columbine shooting. Officers reporting the shooter in the crowd and at various locations on the ground and around the venue. Other officers desperately calling for medical help for victims. What an utter nightmare. I can't imagine working dispatch during something like that.

[Bailey Guns]

It was an hour and 15 between initial call of gunfire, to the breaching of the room.

I'm reading it was only about 20 minutes or so. Where did you get that information?

[Jimmy]

I'm reading it was only about 20 minutes or so. Where did you get that information?

From this article linked to earlier in the thread: http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-route-91-mandalay-bay-shooting-shooter-gunman-suspect-photos-motive/

"According to police scanner transmissions, 72 minutes passed between the first shots fired and when officers breached the hotel room where Paddock was holed up."

[68Charger]

And the conspriacy theories get even more interesting...


https://youtu.be/gywc58Bxxc8

[MarkCO]

Some news outlets mess up the time delay early on, but in the published timelines on their websites, it is in the 75-80 minute range.

However, the smokes went off and there were cameras with at least one monitor in the room that would have shown people approaching the room. Regardless of theory, it is possible that whoever (Fire, Hotel Staff etc.) responded to the smoke alarm spooked the shooter into ending the attack. The breach later on, which I listened to the recording leading up to and slightly afterwards, there were no discernable gunshots.

[KevDen2005]

And the conspriacy theories get even more interesting...


https://youtu.be/gywc58Bxxc8

They sound smart

[68Charger]

They sound smart

No doubt... it's likely a reflection of something in the window

[hollohas]

And the conspriacy theories get even more interesting...


https://youtu.be/gywc58Bxxc8I noticed that flash too in some of the earlier videos but didn't see any broken windows there so I didn't think much of it.

[Gman]

Could be the infrared camera on someone else's cell phone for all we know. The fact that there weren't any broken windows in that area says it's nothing important.

[KevDen2005]

Could be the infrared camera on someone else's cell phone for all we know. The fact that there weren't any broken windows in that area says it's nothing important.

My thoughts exactly. Windows broken on 32nd. None at that floor. I think that's important to note.

[Bailey Guns]

FFS...Mark Kelly has started his shit already. Now we're gonna have to listen to that moron for months.

[68Charger]

Could be the infrared camera on someone else's cell phone for all we know. The fact that there weren't any broken windows in that area says it's nothing important.

Comment on the vid says windows OPEN on the 4th floor... I have no idea, never been there

[OtterbatHellcat]

Well, I've caught up on what everyone here has had to say about this mess.

All I really want to say is that I woke up this morning hearing on my alarm clock radio about Shooting....and Vegas. When I got downstairs and flipped the tv on, I was disgusted at what I saw. My gut went on fire instantly and it's been rolling all day.

None of these shootings sit well with me at all, but this one now in Vegas kinda has me messed up inside. So somewhere around 120 people took fire I'm hearing, including the deceased.

Disgusting.


eta spelling

[68Charger]

My thoughts exactly. Windows broken on 32nd. None at that floor. I think that's important to note.

It's a monitor connected to a zoom camera pointed to the 32nd floor... [Flower]

[Gman]

'Rat-a-tat' of Las Vegas gunfire points to automatic or modified weapons (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/rat-a-tat-of-las-vegas-gunfire-points-to-automatic-or-modified-weapons/ar-AAsPLxc)

Police said they recovered a total of 34 weapons belonging to Paddock, including 16 from the hotel room and 18 at his home in Mesquite, a small desert town about an hour from Las Vegas. Some were automatic weapons or semi-automatic rifles illegally modified into fully-automatic weapons.

[Ronin13]

It looked to me like it was pretty far away too.

Almost exactly like the fictional mass shooting event in the opening pages of the book Enemies Foreign and Domestic except the venue in the book was a NFL stadium...

Long range shots on a packed crowd, stampede to follow causes even more casualties...

Scary.This was my thought after learning more about the shooter. Very odd. From the accounts I've read on what various sources have dug up on the guy, well-to-do, retired accountant or auditor, had his pilot's license, possibly owned a small plane, owned a few properties, enjoyed poker and traveling. This just doesn't fit the profile of someone who would just "snap" and murder hundreds (let's face it, that was the intent). Something doesn't smell right, and I hope I'm wrong, but unless this guy is a deeply evil, deranged guy who was able to keep it under wraps, I'm thinking there may be more. It would be interesting to see what the roommate/gf says. If her being out of the country during this isn't suspect, I don't know what is.

However, like has been said ad nauseam: we don't have many facts yet. What the FBI, ATF and other LE on the ground know is much much more than what's been shared with the public.

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[colorider]

CNN's latest numbers say 23guns in the Hotel room, 19 at his home. Here is a direct quote from classic CNN reporting. "in the hours after the retired accountant committed the shooting, authorities rolled out frightening new details, including the discovery of scopes on the rifles at the resort and explosives at his home." Imagine the horror of finding scopes on rifles. Fox reported the "explosives as being Tannerite.

[sellersm]

Israel news article about the guy's father, supposedly was on a most-watched FBI list?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/236251

[GilpinGuy]

Hannity read a few Tweets from scumbag lefties tonight. Crap like, "It was a country concert, so hopefully only Republicans got shot". WTF is wrong with people?

[GilpinGuy]

Israel news article about the guy's father, supposedly was on a most-watched FBI list?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/236251

Quote from the above article:

According to the FBI, the elder Paddock [shooters father] was "diagnosed as psychopathic" and possibly had "suicidal tendencies."

If true, the shooter may have had mental illness issues as well. Some of these problems "run in the family", as I understand it. I figure we would have heard about those kinds of meds being found at his house, prescriptions, etc. by now though.

[DavieD55]

I want to see security video of this guy, entering and exiting the hotel room with the various bags and/or any other implicating security video. If none of that is ever released, pretty sure that will tell me all I need to know.



^

[GilpinGuy]

I work in the casino industry. Casinos tend to not release video of their gaming floor. This is an unusual event, of course, and video of the hotel hallways isn't as sensitive, so maybe we will see some video of that.

My guess is that we'll see some stills from video of the douche on the floor with his bags full of guns and video of him in hotel hallways. We'll see.

[hollohas]

And, the garbage reporting picks up steam. Headline after headline about "legally converted to full auto with bump fire stocks"...and flash hiders to make it "harder to know where the shooting was coming from."

Oh, and here's a super scary feature, an FN-15 rifle with "H buffer system that reduces recoil and increases accuracy".

[puke]

[hollohas]

Something still smells off to me.

Multimillionaire? Who wired tens of thousands overseas recently? His roomie just happened to be out of the country?

AR15's with bump fire stocks at 400 yards? With bipods?

72 minutes to find him? He installed remote cameras in the hotel hallways? I read the hotel staff had been in his room during his stay and they hadn't seen anything.

Not adding up for me...

[CS1983]

Adios SlideFire stocks.

[Gunner]

Adios SlideFire stocks.We all knew it was a matter of time

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[fly boy]

bump fire stocks, and binary triggers too. Will be on a "WE MUST BAN NOW!" list

[Gunner]

bump fire stocks, and binary triggers too. Will be on a "WE MUST BAN NOW!" listI really don't want to shell out money for a binary trigger but I might look at one

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[Ronin13]

So someone brought up how this untrained guy could do what he did from the distance he did- not knowing the exact measurements I went off of some rough estimates and figured out an approximate distance. If the corner of the building is estimated at about 400m (give or take a few) from the venue/stage, I'll say 410m to be safe, and 32floors up is roughly 108m high, using maths I factor the shooting distance to be right about 425m. Granted, shooting at a broad area target, it's not completely impossible.

Also, anyone else notice how the republicans are expressing grief and sharing condolences and "thoughts and prayers," and the demonrats are all going political before we even get a final tally of just how many were killed or injured? Typical. Don't let a crisis go to waste. Oh and so happy Hitlery is not our president, she's absolutely deplorable (pun intended).

[Lurch]

Just saw a report that he shot a security guard through a doorway at one point. Wonder where that will fall into the timeline?

[hurley842002]

So someone brought up how this untrained guy could do what he did from the distance he did- not knowing the exact measurements I went off of some rough estimates and figured out an approximate distance. If the corner of the building is estimated at about 400m (give or take a few) from the venue/stage, I'll say 410m to be safe, and 32floors up is roughly 108m high, using maths I factor the shooting distance to be right about 425m. Granted, shooting at a broad area target, it's not completely impossible.

Also, anyone else notice how the republicans are expressing grief and sharing condolences and "thoughts and prayers," and the demonrats are all going political before we even get a final tally of just how many were killed or injured? Typical. Don't let a crisis go to waste. Oh and so happy Hitlery is not our president, she's absolutely deplorable (pun intended).
When you have that many people crammed into an area that size, you literally would just need to point in the general direction and you'd make hits. Also, based on the info I've seen so far, from friends and family, how do we know he has no training? You don't need formal training to become proficient enough to inflict damage with a semi auto rifle, and with what little anyone seems to know about this guy, he could have been "training" in the desert for quite some time now.

[newracer]

Guest next door to shooter claims there was more than one.

http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/

[yankeefan98121]

I'm going to go ahead and feed the conspiracy theorists fire (don't hate, I'm just passing on a link)
oops too late heh

[Pmano]

Just have to wait for, hopefully, all the real facts to be collected, verified and published.


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[KevDen2005]

To clarify, I'm not suggesting conspiracy any more than the Dallas PD "conspired" to finger a completely innocent black guy. My concern is WHEN they screw up in an event of this magnitude, it would take an act of God for them to admit it. (Dissonance in part, will maintain their steadfast belief much like someone sending $ to a Nigerian scammer) It is totally unacceptable to the public/media if any "shooter got away". Not like they killed the guy. Maybe he IS the shooter. Doesn't fit the MO. Doesn't mean he isn't. But, in the absence of a living suspect upon door breach, whoever is dead in the room will immediately be suspected and declared the shooter. There exists the possibility another suspect killed him. It is incredibly premature for Vegas to announce and identify him as the shooter until completion of ANY forensics. All they have is a dead guy near the location. Sorry, that doesn't definitely tell me anything.

There could be no more appropriate time to say unconfirmed or suspected shooter. They did not catch him in the act nor is there any direct witness to it under information released this far. He is definitely suspect - but nothing is established.

Nope, can't do that. Agenda to push.

ETA: I'm on a phone at 4am after driving 12+ hours in this mountain snow b.s. so disclaimer: this reply doesn't meet foxtrots quality standards.

Your posts while driving sound angrier. Get some sleep and a snickers.

[KevDen2005]

Adios SlideFire stocks.

I knew something like that was going to happen. I just lost mine. In a river.

[KevDen2005]

Guest next door to shooter claims there was more than one.

http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/

Just as much as everyone is suspicious about the single shooter from the book depository I am always suspicious of the person that comes forward and says there's more. Maybe he wants attention. Remember the kid that supposedly confronted the shooter at Platte Canyon High School? That's an everyday occurrence with every time of crime or incident like car accidents. People literally watch these things happen in front of them and say "That car was hit from behind" as they are looking at front end damage.

[KevDen2005]

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/10/02/iraq-war-veteran-helped-direct-cops-to-vegas-shooters-room/

Story about another person in the same hotel. Just wanted to point out that it's difficult for law enforcement to pinpoint shooting from a specific place when they don't experience it every day like the military does and this guy happened to be below the room making it easier to pin point.

Additionally, I have no doubt 911 was overwhelmed. I bet 10,000 people called 911 at the same time. That's gonna almost literally shut down the system.

[Joe_K]

Some pics I nabbed from another forum. Supposedly two of the killers weapons, and a collage from the Daily Mail. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/afb9299d69ba48d975cd1020bdf584ba.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/f27887088fd80465d3567db3b425b652.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/cb58ba5da7cbb585291a4ee8f386f641.jpg

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[fly boy]

I wouldn't mind having the FULL hotel security tapes released to the public and let the internet find out what happened. Because everything I read on the internet is true. /sarcasm

My opinion is that we will never know the full truth, just speculation and clouded judgment. That is my opinion and most of use know what opinions are.

[Joe_K]

RIP

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/ed99f624be585475b880cae30cdcc2ed.jpg

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[sellersm]

Video from cab driver at the scene. Watch to the end & listen/watch the people she picks up that escaped from the concert...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=435CC8cFIEM

[newracer]

http://i.imgur.com/WIRi2mD.png

[yankeefan98121]

18 mins

[asmo]

I wouldn't mind having the FULL hotel security tapes released to the public and let the internet find out what happened..

*IF* the hotel tapes are "lost", or are "inconclusive" I think we will have our answer on what really happened.

[newracer]

Interesting theory from another forum.


I had a post on this earlier this morning, but a 40-min drive to work gave me more time to think about it, and in particular about why he had so many guns in the room.

There's no good reason to haul 20-some-odd guns to something like this. Three or four reliable rifles and a bag full of reloads is more than enough to sustain this kind of attack. My prediction is that the guns found will be a wide variety; a veritable encyclopedia of tactical weapons and accessories that are within the grasp of any American who wants it bad enough. It'll represent the wet dreams of the gun-control crowd: pistol grips, high-capacity mags, optics, collapsible stocks, shoulder-things-that-go-up, trigger actuators, modified AR's. Sure, it could be argued that most of our own collections are similar; most want a variety of different weapons... it's just part of the whole "collector" thing. But who among us*, if pondering something like this, would empty out the safe and haul the whole mess up to a 32nd-story hotel room? Few, if any. We'd grab a few of our favorites and a bunch of the appropriate ammo. Packing all that shit upstairs unnecessarily complicates things and makes it more likely that something will happen to foil your plans before you have a chance to pull it off.

No, this "arsenal" was a blueprint; a collection meant to be inventoried, scrutinized, cataloged and labeled as Things People Should Not Have Because They Cause Murder.

Just my theory, but we'll see. I'm thinking the motive for this attack is eluding us because it's hiding in plain sight right before our eyes.

[CS1983]

That is interesting.

[asmo]

Interesting theory from another forum.

The left has already said the reason he had so many guns is so that when one "jams" he can just reach for another. It will be interesting to see how many guns were actually used.

Expect to see magazine capacity laws at the federal level and bump/slide fire devices restricted. The left is already heavily pushing this narrative. Expect Trump to be on board (he already said that people shouldn't have 'large capacity' magazines).

The left knows they cannot get everything all at once, if they get one more thing restricted they will be happy. They know this will happen again and they will 'profit' from it when it does. HPA is already dead.

[kidicarus13]

Similar but not as comprehensive as this list:

(a) The following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, AK56, AK56S, AK84S, and AK86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) IMI UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyr AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.

(b) The following specified pistols:
(1) IMI UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram —11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.

(c) The following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc, SS/12. (see Striker)

[fly boy]

Similar but not as comprehensive as this list:

(a) The following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, AK56, AK56S, AK84S, and AK86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) IMI UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyr AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.

(b) The following specified pistols:
(1) IMI UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram —11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.

(c) The following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc, SS/12. (see Striker)


Don't forget about the Saiga 12ga Semi-auto shotgun.

[hollohas]

Interesting theory from another forum.
I thought this too. It doesn't make sense he had so many. And they seem to keep finding more.

And some top of the line rifles too. I mean four DDM4 rifles?? Three FN-15s? That's like $14k right there. WTF?

Eotechs. Surefire mags. Bump fire stocks. On and on.

And out of all that, no mention of any suppressor. All that money spent on gear, all that premeditation, and no suppressor? Huh. Just so happens suppressors are currently highly regulated with a potential bill to fix that.

But ah, ha! See, the regulation works because this mad man didn't have any. I bet a dollar to a dime that the Dems will use the NFA suppressor regulations as an example of what we need to do for ALL guns. They can argue they aren't outlawing guns, but they are implementing common sense regulations just like is currently in place for suppressors that prevented him from killing even more. And kill the SHARE act at the same time.

Then, they'll use his list of accessories to outlaw certain aftermarket parts.

If the bad guy had a suppressor, they could fight to outlaw suppressors. But because he DIDN'T have one, they can fight to increase regulations on EVERYTHING else gun related.

[Gman]

Hmmmm...so where's that thread about the suppressed muzzleloader again?

...and where are people getting the idea he used a Slide Fire or similar stock?

[Zundfolge]

It doesn't make sense he had so many.

Maybe but it also doesn't make sense that he wanted to murder a bunch of people he didn't know, so I'm not sure if looking for logic in that head of his is all that useful.


ETA
I guess he could have just thought "Hmm ... I've got all these guns and this will be the last chance I have to shoot any of them, so I might as well bring them all".

[hollohas]

Maybe but it also doesn't make sense that he wanted to murder a bunch of people he didn't know, so I'm not sure if looking for logic in that head of his is all that useful.Absolutely true. Crazy people be crazy. However, as crazy as he was, he did apparently put a lot of thought into planning his evil crime.

[Ridge]

Someone on 4chan appears to be with LVPD? Note the lack of watermarks.

5 rifles visible

[asmo]

Hmmmm...so where's that thread about the suppressed muzzleloader again?

...and where are people getting the idea he used a Slide Fire or similar stock?

The pictures of some of the weapons show a Slidefire attached.

[hollohas]

Someone on 4chan appears to be with LVPD? Note the lack of watermarks.

5 rifles visibleLook at the undisturbed stack of surefire mags. Wonder how many more he went through.

And is that a rifle under him by his hand? Couldn't be what he used to off himself, right?

[DireWolf]

Hmmmm...so where's that thread about the suppressed muzzleloader again?

...and where are people getting the idea he used a Slide Fire or similar stock?

In one of the posted vids (from cab driver), you can hear significant variations in cyclic rate mid-burst, which would seem to indicate some form of mechanical/manual fire-control enhancement (vs. FA-mod/etc...)

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[kidicarus13]

I usually do not ever say anything on here but these "facts" that have been posted more than once bothered me too much.

"So lets see the facts:
#8) I'm aware of no active shooter of this age. Ever. Someone might correct me. Guy doesn't fit M.O."



Internet forum facts posted by a known conspiracy theorist are not to be disputed!

[Ridge]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/03/las-vegas-shooting-marine-veteran-steals-truck-drives-nearly-30-victims-hospital/726942001/

Marine vet steals a truck and loads it up with wounded and makes two hospital trips before the ambulances arrived on the scene.

[hollohas]

Zerohedge has a gruesome postmortem photo.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/vegas-shooter-filmed-himself-during-slaughter-suicide-photo-emerges

Plus, more and more videos turning up of the "flashing" from the lower floor. Even one from a cab driver who spoted it as he pulled out of the hotel.

Not saying it's gunshots. But it's less likely to be a reflection if it was observed from multiple different angles.

[KevDen2005]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/03/las-vegas-shooting-marine-veteran-steals-truck-drives-nearly-30-victims-hospital/726942001/

Marine vet steals a truck and loads it up with wounded and makes two hospital trips before the ambulances arrived on the scene.

Is anyone else concerned that he knew how to steal a truck so easily under stress?

[thvigil11]

Is anyone else concerned that he knew how to steal a truck so easily under stress?

After climbing over a fence to safety, Winston and a friend looked for ways to help those still in danger. Winston checked nearby trucks for keys.
"First one we tried opening had keys sitting right there. I started looking for people to take to the hospital," Winston told CBS. "There was just too many and it was overwhelming how much blood was everywhere."

[KevDen2005]

After climbing over a fence to safety, Winston and a friend looked for ways to help those still in danger. Winston checked nearby trucks for keys.
"First one we tried opening had keys sitting right there. I started looking for people to take to the hospital," Winston told CBS. "There was just too many and it was overwhelming how much blood was everywhere."

Hmmm, that's just too easy.

[KevDen2005]

I usually do not ever say anything on here but these "facts" that have been posted more than once bothered me too much.

"So lets see the facts:
#8) I'm aware of no active shooter of this age. Ever. Someone might correct me. Guy doesn't fit M.O."

Really guys? You want to post this as facts? "No active shooter of this age. Ever."

Since you are not aware, please see below:
Carl Drega, 62. In 1997, Drega armed himself with a semiautomatic weapon and killed four people in Colebrook, New Hampshire

William D. Baker, 66. The former Navistar International worker armed himself with an AK-47 assault rifle and other weapons and went to the company’s Chicago-area plant, where he killed 4 workers and wounded four others in 2001

Kurt Meyers, 64. In 2013, Myers set fire to his home and then, armed with a shotgun, went to a barbershop in in the upstate New York village of Mohawk Valley, and opened fire, shooting two people and wounding two others. He then drove to a carwash and killed two more people.

On November 27, 2015, Robert Lewis Dear was 57, almost 60 when he committed a mass shooting occurred in a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, resulting in the deaths of three people and injuries to nine.

James Hodgkinson, age 66. In June 2017, Hudgkinson opened fire on Republicans practicing for the Congressional Baseball Game for Charity at a park in Alexandria, Virginia.

Thanks for posting this. I thought the dude at Alexandria was older and I knew the guy at planned parenthood was also in his 50s

[zteknik]

Is anyone else concerned that he knew how to steal a truck so easily under stress?
Marine- adapt- overcome. Job well done. Semper Fi. Surprised the libs didn't press charges.

[Gman]

Marine- adapt- overcome. Job well done. Semper Fi. Surprised the libs didn't press charges.It's early yet. ;-)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[MarkCO]

I just went to the local grocery store...I can't figure out why they are completely sold out of tinfoil. [mop]

[hollohas]

I just went to the local grocery store...I can't figure out why they are completely sold out of tinfoil. [mop]I had to go to 3 Costcos to find enough.

[sellersm]

Speaking of how this relates to the SHARE Act being sabotaged by this event, the following article covers it.
http://www.thegovernmentrag.com/the-correlation-between-the-las-vegas-shooting-and-the-share-act.html#.WdQP6WVZH0d

NOTE: Something I didn't know about the country singer that was performing, is included towards the end of this article:

Interestingly enough… Country Singer Jason Aldean, who was on stage singing at the time of the shooting, is also a co-owner of a hunting company called Buck Commander (in partnership) with former Major League Baseball (MLB) players Adam LaRoche, Ryan Langerhans, and Tombo Martin, Willie Robertson of Duck Dynasty, and fellow country singer Luke Bryan. (Wikipedia).

[asmo]

Speaking of how this relates to the SHARE Act being sabotaged by this event, the following article covers it.
http://www.thegovernmentrag.com/the-correlation-between-the-las-vegas-shooting-and-the-share-act.html#.WdQP6WVZH0d

NOTE: Something I didn't know about the country singer that was performing, is included towards the end of this article:

For every major mass shooting - there was a correlating major gun bill, with a high chance of passing, about to be acted on by congress.

[OtterbatHellcat]

This whole effing thing reeks of:

Successful destruction of defenseless civilians during a time of (debatable) peace, at an entirely new level...
A ridiculous amount of weapons choices far exceeding the needs to accomplish the objective...
A deceased suspected actor that NOBODY has come out and revealed as being nefarious...
An affluent successful retired business person with a pension for gambling with high stakes...
Much higher than average planning and staging than any previous event...
Long amount of time from the last shot fired until SWAT locating and entry...
Crazy cell phone videos, IMO
Multiple accounts of a person at the venue yelling to leave, you're all going to die...
...and other things past these...

It really seems to be thought out so much better, than just a guy that got pissed off at something and sat down with a notepad....and did a metric fuk ton of expensive planning without getting noticed in hotels that have security monitoring better than banks do. I don't get any kind of "guy snap" vibe about any of this. I'm also no expert, and I have shit for facts...and maybe due to that, I shouldn't off an opinion on it...just my take.

Perhaps a pro level shark has the withal to have snapped under control, and just used familiarity with his surroundings and the people he already knows, that had no reason to fear his motives, and just used his poker face to get him through to his desired result.

[theGinsue]

When events as tragic as this take place it's nature to want answers. When most answers don't come or, those that do come don't seem to make sense (or even create more questions) we tend to work to devise our own answers based off of what we do know.

My background has put me in the unenviable position of questioning the narrative in practically every situation. I'm not immune to believing in conspiracy theories because I've seen narratives created to change peoples perception of the truth. While I always leave the door open to possibilities, I also try to tread carefully in what I accept and believe until I have actual facts.

It's easy to fall prey to all of the what if's and maybe's that form into a multitude of conspiracy theories. I'm asking our membership to pause for a moment. Instead of spending our energy trying to work out what happened lets just pause.

What we know are that this event will have a negative effect on lawful firearm owners; there is no way around this. More importantly, we also know that a lot of innocent people lost their lives, even more were injured (many, far too many, seriously injured). Beyond that, we know that the thousands were at the event, yet escaped harm, those who responded to this tragedy and those friends and family of all involved need our thoughts and prayers. They need our support. They need folks like us to not help turn this into something uglier than it already is.

Let's pause before we post and consider what benefits or harm our post might have and use the energy we might otherwise have expended to speculate to do something positive in the face of this tragedy. While we're pausing we might even considering giving a word of thanks to God, or if you aren't a person of faith perhaps to no one in particular, for the safety of ourselves and our loved ones.

Ginsue out.

[KAPA]

I am going to say this guy had an agenda and his main goal was to attack 2A. Like said above, he had an awesome collection of everything tactical and everything that the left wants to ban. What better way to advance an anti 2A narrative than use all these weapons to kill as many as possible and at a likely conservative event too. This guy has to have some history, who did he vote for, was he a registered D, when did he first by his first tactical style rifle? Was it shortly after Trump won? I suspect we will start getting some info coming out soon that will paint a picture something close to what I wrote above.

What we know so far just does not add up.

[Bailey Guns]

This one has me puzzled. I don't think the guy "snapped". People that snap do thinks spontaneously....which this certainly wasn't. I'm curious to hear what the female part of this has to say.

I don't think it's possible to understand why he would do this though I'd at least like some insight as to why. Unless he left some sort of written or electronic communication we may wind up speculating about this one for the rest of our days and not know the real answer.

At least for now, I don't think it's really any more complicated than the guy just had some serious anger at something or someone and this is how he wound up resolving it. We've seen it before and, unfortunately, we'll see it again.

If there can be a silver lining it would be in seeing how so many people did so much good under truly remarkable circumstances. We see that every time something like this happens and it's comforting to know there's always good to at least somewhat temper the bad.

[Ridge]

Policy Bodycam footage (officers at the venue) released


https://youtu.be/MGAtdSyUQSk

[Bitter Clinger]

When events as tragic as this take place it's nature to want answers. When most answers don't come or, those that do come don't seem to make sense (or even create more questions) we tend to work to devise our own answers based off of what we do know.


My background has put me in the unenviable position of questioning the narrative in practically every situation. I'm not immune to believing in conspiracy theories because I've seen narratives created to change peoples perception of the truth. While I always leave the door open to possibilities, I also try to tread carefully in what I accept and believe until I have actual facts.


It's easy to fall prey to all of the what if's and maybe's that form into a multitude of conspiracy theories. I'm asking our membership to pause for a moment. Instead of spending our energy trying to work out what happened lets just pause.


What we know are that this event will have a negative effect on lawful firearm owners; there is no way around this. More importantly, we also know that a lot of innocent people lost their lives, even more were injured (many, far too many, seriously injured). Beyond that, we know that the thousands were at the event, yet escaped harm, those who responded to this tragedy and those friends and family of all involved need our thoughts and prayers. They need our support. They need folks like us to not help turn this into something uglier than it already is.


Let's pause before we post and consider what benefits or harm our post might have and use the energy we might otherwise have expended to speculate to do something positive in the face of this tragedy. While we're pausing we might even considering giving a word of thanks to God, or if you aren't a person of faith perhaps to no one in particular, for the safety of ourselves and our loved ones.


Ginsue out.


Lets just remember the fallen for now

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/these-are-the-victims-of-the-las-vegas-shooting%3Futm_term%3D.tuvn2k3qB%23.livMzNpOa&ved=0ahUKEwjX5LehpdbWAhVBI2MKHS9bAq8QFgglMAA&usg=AOvVaw3EJTYl4MEW05zZOL7K91Rd


Oops. Meant to quote the ginsues post.
[MOD: FIFY]

[MarkCO]

Have you seen the images of him in the pink hat at the anti-Trump rally, and that he was recently prescribed psychiatric drugs? Common link in most of these is mental health and psychiatric drugs.

Ever since Jason Rocha shot Scott Michael outside of my school in 1982, I have been keenly aware of people that I have associated with, and the accounts of the secret lives kept behind closed doors, of the mentally ill (for whatever reason) and psychiatric drugs. One of my childhood friends who was bi-polar, finally killed himself several years ago, one of my HS classmates, also on anti-depressants, killed himself after completing boot camp, a college friend continues to struggle with mental health and adjustment of psychiatric drugs. What happened is NOT normal and when we try to put it in a box of normal, it won't fit. It is hard for people to accept, so the theories fly. It is mental illness in the VAST majority of cases when a person murders innocents.

In most water supplies, there are 20-30 metabolized and non-metabolized drugs...ever read a drug interaction label on a psychiatric drug? Even a slight imbalanced interaction can set someone over the edge.

[davsel]

Have you seen the images of him in the pink hat at the anti-Trump rally, and that he was recently prescribed psychiatric drugs? Common link in most of these is mental health and psychiatric drugs.

Ever since Jason Rocha shot Scott Michael outside of my school in 1982, I have been keenly aware of people that I have associated with, and the accounts of the secret lives kept behind closed doors, of the mentally ill (for whatever reason) and psychiatric drugs. One of my childhood friends who was bi-polar, finally killed himself several years ago, one of my HS classmates, also on anti-depressants, killed himself after completing boot camp, a college friend continues to struggle with mental health and adjustment of psychiatric drugs. What happened is NOT normal and when we try to put it in a box of normal, it won't fit. It is hard for people to accept, so the theories fly. It is mental illness in the VAST majority of cases when a person murders innocents.

In most water supplies, there are 20-30 metabolized and non-metabolized drugs...ever read a drug interaction label on a psychiatric drug? Even a slight imbalanced interaction can set someone over the edge.

I believe that pic has proven to be of someone else.

[yankeefan98121]

Very well put Ginsue!

[Aloha_Shooter]

He supposedly set up cameras to film himself doing the shooting. Why would he do that except to dispel any notions that it was anyone OTHER than him doing the shooting? If he was worried someone would think there were other shooters or that he was a patsy ala "Shooter" (which some people obviously have gone to), why did that prospect worry him? I have a tough time understanding the thinking of most criminals but this guy ... really the only statement I can come up with at the moment is what Trump said, "pure evil."

I'd like the Powers That Be to focus on why the checks and balances in place now -- which work for the vast bulk of most circumstances -- failed with him. If he was on mind-altering drugs, is there a way to flag the condition that wouldn't burden non-dangerous citizens? How would any new restrictions proposed be misused by totalitarians like Obama and Clinton and their picks for AG?

[Skip]

I think the speculation is natural and normal. I have the same feeling as I had after Sandy Hook...

1 - Horrible mass murder by an evil bastard
2 - Media/gov will not tell the whole truth (may have a valid reason to protect investigation, might be political)
3 - Certain people immediately politicize it with a narrative we can't verify because #2
4 - #3 demands we give up our rights without question


If folks would just let the investigation be completed, tell the truth about the findings, and then report it accurately, I wouldn't feel the need to ask questions.

If anyone here thinks the speculation on this thread is negative/embarrassing, I would encourage that person to go back over the last three days of "reporting" by folks with journalism degrees and read what high profile Dims have said in social media.

I read a sound bite from Trump this morning where he mentioned this was personally devastating to him (AFAIK he has no personal connection here). There was mention yesterday of a note in the room. And the GF is back in as a "person of interest." It sounds like there is more info that has not been released and until people are satisfied there will be speculation. If, in the absence of facts, certain people would stop trying to take gun rights, that would also cool the interest.

[Delfuego]

Let's pause before we post and consider what benefits or harm our post might have and use the energy we might otherwise have expended to speculate to do something positive in the face of this tragedy. While we're pausing we might even considering giving a word of thanks to God, or if you aren't a person of faith perhaps to no one in particular, for the safety of ourselves and our loved ones.

Ginsue out.

Thanks Boss

[Zundfolge]

I don't think the guy "snapped". People that snap do thinks spontaneously....which this certainly wasn't.

What would you call what happened to Marvin Heemeyer (Granby Killdozer)? I think some people have a slow burn kind of "snap". This guy in Vegas seems to be the same kind of thing.

[Zundfolge]

FoxNews just said he was proscribed Diazepam (Vallium) ... so yet another mass murderer with a script for a psychotropic.

[Bailey Guns]

What would you call what happened to Marvin Heemeyer (Granby Killdozer)? I think some people have a slow burn kind of "snap". This guy in Vegas seems to be the same kind of thing.

I don't know. I really can't begin to fathom how anyone could come to the conclusion that's the way to solve a problem. I've been pretty angry and upset over the years (ie: getting screwed over by the IRS for 5 years for their mistake and no one in the organization was accountable) but I never contemplated violence as the answer. Maybe I was doing it wrong.

[68Charger]

I don't know. I really can't begin to fathom how anyone could come to the conclusion that's the way to solve a problem.

I say the same thing about people who believe gun control works.

I think it requires some level of disconnect from reality- which is why psychotropic drugs are frequently involved. Things that the average person is willing to do in a video game are things that those disconnected from reality would consider.

[fly boy]

Someone on 4chan appears to be with LVPD? Note the lack of watermarks.

5 rifles visible


what bugged me about these photo's were a few things. **I know these are only a couple pictures and there is a second window/shooting area

I can't figure out how the body would land on a gun like that if its what he used to shoot himself.
There is a perfectly stacked bunch of mag's sitting against the pillar, but then there are weapons just scattered about, and a suitcase in-between couch and middle thing
There should be way more shell casings
There should be empty mags scattered about
The two rifles near him (one OVER his foot, and next to it) have 20-30 round mag's installed

*yes there are conspiracy's about 9/11, JFK, etc. and it seems this one will be another one on the books that we won't ever know the whole truth.

[Ridge]

He killed himself with a pistol to the head, not a rifle.
The mags were likely stacked there by him for quick access shooting from that couch out the window where the curtains are pulled aside.
The room is massive, that is only a small area pictured. There is quite likely more mags and casings scattered about, like the remaining 12 rifles that are in the room.
The rifle over his foot seems weird to me, but I don't know what the human body does when it drops to the ground dead.

[Circuits]

what bugged me about these photo's were a few things. **I know these are only a couple pictures and there is a second window/shooting area
There should be empty mags scattered about
The two rifles near him (one OVER his foot, and next to it) have 20-30 round mag's installed


Those are 60 or 100-round Surefire quad-stack magazines.

[Ridge]

Those are 60 or 100-round Surefire quad-stack magazines.

The one to the left of him with a large scope on it has a 30rd Pmag in it.

[fly boy]

He killed himself with a pistol to the head, not a rifle.
The mags were likely stacked there by him for quick access shooting from that couch out the window where the curtains are pulled aside.
The room is massive, that is only a small area pictured. There is quite likely more mags and casings scattered about, like the remaining 12 rifles that are in the room.
The rifle over his foot seems weird to me, but I don't know what the human body does when it drops to the ground dead.

In the suitcase there looks to be even more mags too.
I know that the room was huge, but there should be a few empty's lying around. I wished there were a few more pictures posted.



Those are 60 or 100-round Surefire quad-stack magazines.

The ones stacked yes. I am talking about the ones installed in the rifle lying on the floor, as well as the one over his foot.... it wouldn't sit resting on the butt stock with a surfire mag. Even with my bi-pod fully extended, my AR rests on a 40 round mag which is just a little longer than a standard 30-round mag.

[Zundfolge]

He killed himself with a pistol to the head, not a rifle.

Looks like he offed himself with a J Frame (very graphic photo, which is why I linked and not embedded) https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/mandalay-bay-massacre-6.jpg

Here's several of the crime scene photos stitched together (note the note on the table on the right).

https://i.imgur.com/H1TXC5C.jpg

As for motive, here's a pic of screenshots of a series of posts on reddit of someone claiming to be LVPD claiming that Paddock was actually FBI and all these guns were meant for an arms selling sting to ISIS fighters inside the US who murdered him and carried out the massacre and left. Rather tin foil hatty if you ask me, but the posts are compelling. He connects it to the whole Leland Yee case (the Democrat Senator from CA who was selling guns to Philippine terrorists)
https://i.redd.it/z7ma82sfxopz.png

[Ridge]

I've heard the pink note on the table is the receipt from the room service he ordered. He kept the cart and stashed a camera in it in the hallway to watch his six.

[CS1983]

That's ridiculous. The gov would never do an illegal gun deal with known terrorists that got out of hand.

[Rumline]

As for motive, here's a pic of screenshots of a series of posts on reddit of someone claiming to be LVPD claiming that Paddock was actually FBI and all these guns were meant for an arms selling sting to ISIS fighters inside the US who murdered him and carried out the massacre and left. Rather tin foil hatty if you ask me, but the posts are compelling. He connects it to the whole Leland Yee case (the Democrat Senator from CA who was selling guns to Philippine terrorists)
https://i.redd.it/z7ma82sfxopz.png
Do FBI arms stings typically include a metric shitton of loaded mags?

[colorider]

FoxNews just said he was proscribed Diazepam (Vallium) ... so yet another mass murderer with a script for a psychotropic.

If he was tripping on Valium he would have been taking a nice nap. Not shooting up a crowd. Vallium is hardly a major drug these days. It's a tranquilizer. Maybe it was for anxiety or hyperactivity. Who knows. Just my opinion.
The press is grasping at straws at the moment. I have a BIG feeling that this is part of something larger than just a dude snapped. Lots of thought, planning and most likely shooting practice went into this event.
We shall see.

[Joe_K]

The one to the left of him with a large scope on it has a 30rd Pmag in it.Appears to be a Magpul 25 round .308 magazine in a DD M5 .308.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[hollohas]

Room service delivered an order for two to him a couple days prior.

Proof of a 2nd shooter. Not really. But it brings up some questions...

EDIT to add source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4948584/Vegas-gunman-ate-burger-bagel-days-massacre.html

[Ridge]

Room service delivered an order for two to him a couple days prior.

Proof of a 2nd shooter. Not really. But it brings up some questions...

Source?

And how would room service know it was for two people and not just one really hungry person?

[Zundfolge]

Do FBI arms stings typically include a metric shitton of loaded mags?

I agree, that's the biggest hole in the FBI arms sale theory.


If he was tripping on Valium he would have been taking a nice nap. Not shooting up a crowd.
From here (Common side effects of Valium (http://www.rxlist.com/valium-side-effects-drug-center.htm)):

Psychiatric and Paradoxical Reactions: stimulation, restlessness, acute hyperexcited states, anxiety, agitation, aggressiveness, irritability, rage, hallucinations, psychoses, delusions, increased muscle spasticity, insomnia, sleep disturbances, and nightmares. Inappropriate behavior and other adverse behavioral effects have been reported when using benzodiazepines. Should these occur, use of the drug should be discontinued. They are more likely to occur in children and in the elderly.

[KevDen2005]

Room service delivered an order for two to him a couple days prior.

Proof of a 2nd shooter. Not really. But it brings up some questions...

Some of us do eat for two....

[roberth]

That's ridiculous. The gov would never do an illegal gun deal with known terrorists that got out of hand.

You're right[Beer], they would NEVER.

[KevDen2005]

If he was tripping on Valium he would have been taking a nice nap. Not shooting up a crowd. Vallium is hardly a major drug these days. It's a tranquilizer. Maybe it was for anxiety or hyperactivity. Who knows. Just my opinion.
The press is grasping at straws at the moment. I have a BIG feeling that this is part of something larger than just a dude snapped. Lots of thought, planning and most likely shooting practice went into this event.
We shall see.

Sometimes it can make depression symptoms worse. It's rare given the number of people prescribed.

[Ridge]

From here (Common side effects of Valium (http://www.rxlist.com/valium-side-effects-drug-center.htm)):

Psychiatric and Paradoxical Reactions: stimulation, restlessness, acute hyperexcited states, anxiety, agitation, aggressiveness, irritability, rage, hallucinations, psychoses, delusions, increased muscle spasticity, insomnia, sleep disturbances, and nightmares. Inappropriate behavior and other adverse behavioral effects have been reported when using benzodiazepines. Should these occur, use of the drug should be discontinued. They are more likely to occur in children and in the elderly.

The majority of those are listed as rare, not common.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11116/valium-oral/details/list-sideeffects

[Zundfolge]

The majority of those are listed as rare, not common.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11116/valium-oral/details/list-sideeffects

ah the title of the page said Common ... either way there's not much common about murdering large numbers of people, so it would make sense that he suffered from one of the uncommon side effects (along with most of the other mass shooters on psychotropic drugs).

[hollohas]

Source?

And how would room service know it was for two people and not just one really hungry person?

I added the source. I don't know how legit it is. But the receipt says 2-guests.

[hollohas]

But ah, ha! See, the regulation works because this mad man didn't have any. I bet a dollar to a dime that the Dems will use the NFA suppressor regulations as an example of what we need to do for ALL guns. They can argue they aren't outlawing guns, but they are implementing common sense regulations just like is currently in place for suppressors that prevented him from killing even more. And kill the SHARE act at the same time.

Then, they'll use his list of accessories to outlaw certain aftermarket parts.

If the bad guy had a suppressor, they could fight to outlaw suppressors. But because he DIDN'T have one, they can fight to increase regulations on EVERYTHING else gun related.

Just heard a caller on 850 KOA argue just this ^. Guy said he was a passionate gun owner who has used bump stocks and owns AR15s. His opinion was that we should “immediately ban bump stocks.” He also said that there is no reason that anyone should be able to buy as many “assault type rifles” as this guy had. He said we should use the NFA rules (actually he said “class III licenses”) to regulate those types of weapons. That way, he said, people could still buy them, but it would be much harder.

Ugh.

[Scanker19]

The only question is raises for me is why a cheese burger costs $26 dollars.

[Great-Kazoo]

The only question is raises for me is why a cheese burger costs $26 dollars.

Same reason 2 - 6" sandwiches from the Vegas subway cost me $18. Room service fees plus any add on's he ordered.
Hell some of these "farm - table" eateries in CO can run you $15-20 for a burger

[Erni]

Just heard a caller on 850 KOA argue just this ^. Guy said he was a passionate gun owner who has used bump stocks and owns AR15s. His opinion was that we should “immediately ban bump stocks.” He also said that there is no reason that anyone should be able to buy as many “assault type rifles” as this guy had. He said we should use the NFA rules (actually he said “class III licenses”) to regulate those types of weapons. That way, he said, people could still buy them, but it would be much harder.

Ugh.
BS on him being a gun owner. The army of of fake "I'm a gun owner but..." people is back in force.

[Circuits]

In the suitcase there looks to be even more mags too.
The ones stacked yes. I am talking about the ones installed in the rifle lying on the floor, as well as the one over his foot.... it wouldn't sit resting on the butt stock with a surfire mag. Even with my bi-pod fully extended, my AR rests on a 40 round mag which is just a little longer than a standard 30-round mag.

A Surefire 60 is about the same length as a regular 30, definitely shorter than a double-stack 40. The 100s are a fair bit longer.

The bumpstock rifle with the vertical foregrip and red-dot has a Surefire 100 inserted. The shorter rifle with the bipod and scope does have a PMAG 30 inserted and another PMAG next to it.

[Gman]

ah the title of the page said Common ... either way there's not much common about murdering large numbers of people, so it would make sense that he suffered from one of the uncommon side effects (along with most of the other mass shooters on psychotropic drugs).

Read it on the Internet so it must be true. Valium is a sedative, not a psychotropic drug. There are numerous warnings about mixing valium with other meds including psychotropics.

Mental illness is a bitch. Had a co-worker off himself a few weeks ago at 34 years old with a great job, wife, and 2 young kids. NOBODY saw it coming.

[Scanker19]

So what if he was Valuim?

[colorider]

So what if he was Valuim?

In my opinion, it would be a really weak excuse for what he did. Really weak. Weak as in somebody is using it as an excuse to cover up the real motive.

[Gman]

GOP lawmaker: AR-15s 'not dangerous' when 'used appropriately' (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-ar-15s-not-dangerous-when-used-appropriately/ar-AAsUubg)

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) is defending AR-15s in the wake of the deadly mass shooting in Las Vegas, saying Wednesday the semi-automatic rifles are not dangerous "when they're used appropriately."

During an interview on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," Cole was asked if he would be against banning AR-15s or semi-automatic rifles as a way to help curb American gun violence.

"I would, there's millions of them in circulation. When they're used appropriately, they're not dangerous," he said.

When MSNBC's Willie Geist pointed out that weapons by definition are dangerous things, Cole retorted: "So are trucks driving into crowds."

Cole said he doesn't see banning any particular firearms as the solution to U.S. gun deaths.

"There's not an easy legislative fix here, and I think people that suggest there is are not very persuasive in that regard," he said.

Cole was asked during Wednesday's interview whether he was alarmed authorities had recovered more than 40 weapons belong to the suspected Las Vegas gunman.

"I have friends with that many weapons. That's not uncommon in my part of the country," Cole said.

He added he's very "fierce" about protecting the Second Amendment.

"Most of the people that own these weapons, I mean like 99.99 percent aren't a threat to anybody," he said.

"You can turn almost anything into a weapon of mass destruction if the evil intent is there to do it."

Spot on.

[Great-Kazoo]

GOP lawmaker: AR-15s 'not dangerous' when 'used appropriately' (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-ar-15s-not-dangerous-when-used-appropriately/ar-AAsUubg)


Spot on.

While the reply is on the money. The number of people who tune in to msnbc are less than members of this forum.

[MrPrena]

Yup.
Hummer 1/2/3 and Jeeps are very safe when used approporately.
Yes those are/were used in war.

[Ronin13]

I've really tried to ignore the news the past couple days. They will release information in due time, that's how these investigations work. But what I've seen lately, this is exactly what's going on:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/ae1a2c4a09d48633f332eca92dbe14fc.jpg

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[Firehaus]

https://youtu.be/nG2oQ65zi-Q


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[DenverGP]

He was firing for close to ten minutes. That equates to about one KIA every ten seconds. Hard to say how many wounded by him, most were by trample. At any rate, I wonder if he would have been more dangerous with only semi autos. Considering the circumstances, it surprisingly more were not killed.


I've heard it was around 200-300 shots fired in that 10 minutes. If thats correct, it's a very low count for "full auto"... Shooting one aimed shot every second or two for 10 minutes would have been more shots fired, and probably more damage, even with mag changes.

[hollohas]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21963/watch-las-vegas-sheriff-says-he-thinks-shooter-had-ryan-saavedra


Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said during a Wednesday evening press conference that he believes alleged gunman Stephen Paddock had help and that there is evidence that suggests he didn’t plan to die in his hotel room.

[CS1983]

https://youtu.be/nG2oQ65zi-Q


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His analysis of the video at 3:30 (on the video he is presenting, not the video you linked), is compelling. Definitely sounds like a burst within a string of sustained fire, which would indicate either two shooters or some setup allowing him to engage with multiple weapons at once.

[izzy]

https://youtu.be/nG2oQ65zi-Q


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Think I need to get some tinfoil after watching that one.

[Firehaus]

Think I need to get some tinfoil after watching that one.

How are you not already wearing tinfoil after this many pages of theories?


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[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I agree, that's the biggest hole in the FBI arms sale theory.


From here (Common side effects of Valium (http://www.rxlist.com/valium-side-effects-drug-center.htm)):

Psychiatric and Paradoxical Reactions: stimulation, restlessness, acute hyper-excited states, anxiety, agitation, aggressiveness, irritability, rage, hallucinations, psychoses, delusions, increased muscle spasticity, insomnia, sleep disturbances, and nightmares. Inappropriate behavior and other adverse behavioral effects have been reported when using benzodiazepines. Should these occur, use of the drug should be discontinued. They are more likely to occur in children and in the elderly.


The majority of those are listed as rare, not common.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11116/valium-oral/details/list-sideeffects


ah the title of the page said Common ... either way there's not much common about murdering large numbers of people, so it would make sense that he suffered from one of the uncommon side effects (along with most of the other mass shooters on psychotropic drugs).


Read it on the Internet so it must be true. Valium is a sedative, not a psychotropic drug. There are numerous warnings about mixing valium with other meds including psychotropics.
.

This. It is quite effective as a sedative, this is why we use it as such. Benzos have some interesting properties, but I wouldn't choose it as a psychotropic. Paradoxical reactions are named as such for a reason.

Now, as a calming and partial amnesic to set up a 'programmed shooter?' I could think of better agents, but that is way outside the purview of clinical practice, I'm not quite into the conspiracy yet, and would defer to you psyops guys.

/slowly backs out...

[BushMasterBoy]

Motive is simple, "kill ratio" 59 to 1. We all know that is sick. I'm sure there is something in the DSM IV that gives it a name and a ICDA code. This is just my opinion. I am not a psychiatrist.

[BPTactical]

Listen early on in the cab driver video. You hear a burst that sounds like it is right on top of her. Then a few seconds later there is another burst from a considerable distance away. It is not an echo. It is a different rof, different round count.
Even if he had fired out of the other window, there is not enough separation between the windows to account for difference in the report.
Curious.

[CS1983]

Listen early on in the cab driver video. You hear a burst that sounds like it is right on top of her. Then a few seconds later there is another burst from a considerable distance away. It is not an echo. It is a different rof, different round count.
Even if he had fired out of the other window, there is not enough separation between the windows to account for difference in the report.
Curious.

You have to listen back and to the left to hear the narrative.

[Skip]

Listen early on in the cab driver video. You hear a burst that sounds like it is right on top of her. Then a few seconds later there is another burst from a considerable distance away. It is not an echo. It is a different rof, different round count.
Even if he had fired out of the other window, there is not enough separation between the windows to account for difference in the report.
Curious.

Will you stop being so... technical?

Our betters are busy trying to make some goodness out of this tragedy!

/sarc


It is interesting to watch Libs be satisfied that "white Trump voters" were targeted (and they are all over social media) while demanding action on behalf of "white Trump voters" that were murdered which disarms other "white Trump voters."

(I put that in quotes because it isn't true, just more of their ignorance)

Watching Jimmy Kimmel cry over dead "white Trump voters" should have triggered the accusation that Kimmel is a white supremacist. Yet that accusation never came. Strange.

It's this kind of problem>narrative>solution (coincidentally a longstanding political goal) Libtard kneejerk that makes people think there is a lot more going on than what's being reported.

[Scanker19]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-easy-ar-15-even-232638493.html

^^^^^Hahahahahahhaha....

When chrome-lined barrels are outlawed, only outlaws will have chrome-lined barrels.

[colorider]

Difference in the sound of the shots could easily be from how she had the microphone of the phone positioned and which direction it was facing.

[CS1983]

Difference in the sound of the shots could easily be from how she had the microphone of the phone positioned and which direction it was facing.

That's easily testable.

[O2HeN2]

Imagine if he had chosen to crash one of his private planes into the venue instead...

We should [unfortunately] be happy about the method he choose, except for the usual shallow-thinker response...

O2

[hollohas]

I've heard it was around 200-300 shots fired in that 10 minutes. If thats correct, it's a very low count for "full auto"... Shooting one aimed shot every second or two for 10 minutes would have been more shots fired, and probably more damage, even with mag changes.And a VERY high hit ratio given the distance and inherent inaccuracy of bump fire shooting...

[00tec]

And a VERY high hit ratio given the distance and inherent inaccuracy of bump fire shooting...

I believe those numbers need extra zeros.

[RblDiver]

Interesting, guy might have watched too many action movies and tried (and failed) to blow up a tank of aviation fuel. https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/05/vegas-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks/

[BushMasterBoy]

Well this incident created a new job description for the PD. Patrol/ sniper.

[asmo]

Expect to see magazine capacity laws at the federal level and bump/slide fire devices restricted. The left is already heavily pushing this narrative. Expect Trump to be on board (he already said that people shouldn't have 'large capacity' magazines).

The left knows they cannot get everything all at once, if they get one more thing restricted they will be happy. They know this will happen again and they will 'profit' from it when it does. HPA is already dead.

NRA calls for federal review of whether bump fire stocks comply with current law
The influential gun lobby has long opposed any efforts to restrict gun or ammunition purchases.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/nra-calls-for-federal-review-of-whether-bump-fire-stocks-comply-with-current-law-243500

[Aloha_Shooter]

I think the NRA is doing that as a firebreak against the more intrustive legislation and review being demanded by the Democrats.

[jhood001]

NRA calls for federal review of whether bump fire stocks comply with current law
The influential gun lobby has long opposed any efforts to restrict gun or ammunition purchases.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/nra-calls-for-federal-review-of-whether-bump-fire-stocks-comply-with-current-law-243500



— used a bump stock to spray a country music concert crowd with bullets from a hotel suite window.

The device allowed the shooter to fire 400 to 600 rounds per minute. Without it, the shooter would have had to reload, giving him less time to fire and likely saving lives.


Where do they find these people?

[asmo]

I think the NRA is doing that as a firebreak against the more intrustive legislation and review being demanded by the Democrats.

Hughes amendment all over again. The left knows they cannot outlaw all guns. So they just keep pressing, little by little - keep moving the goal posts.

The Rules for Radicals:

"Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood.
"Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
"Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news.
"Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition." It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.
"If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem.
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

[Fmedges]

Bend over. Here it comes. Any accessory that increases the rate of fire?? Who gets to define that? Are they going to regulate how you shoot your firearm and how fast you're allowed to pull that trigger?

[theGinsue]

— used a bump stock to spray a country music concert crowd with bullets from a hotel suite window.

The device allowed the shooter to fire 400 to 600 rounds per minute. Without it, the shooter would have had to reload, giving him less time to fire and likely saving lives.

Where do they find these people?

Wait a minute. If I get a bump fire stock I won't have to reload as often when I'm shooting - regardless of the magazine capacity? Why didn't someone tell me about this magical aspect of the stock before this? I feel cheated.

[kidicarus13]

Bend over. Here it comes. Any accessory that increases the rate of fire?? Who gets to define that? Are they going to regulate how you shoot your firearm and how fast you're allowed to pull that trigger?

72197

[Fmedges]

72197

Except for this will just be anywhere you go to shoot and not just at a range.


It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a trigger crank, a bump-fire device or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machine gun,”

It's too vague.

[Aloha_Shooter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddPTyoV-Irc

Stuff like this is why the 538.com analyst wrote in her WaPo editorial that she doesn't believe in gun control anymore.

[MarkCO]

The ATF could change the definition of a Semi-automatic firearm to include: "The trigger of all semi-automatic firearms must be naturally pressed and then released allowing it to return to the static state while firing only one round. A firearm (or device intended to alter such function) not manufactured as such must request ATF classification prior to any use." Actually would mitigate several issues and by so doing, might bypass legislation.

[MED]

Wait a minute. If I get a bump fire stock I won't have to reload as often when I'm shooting - regardless of the magazine capacity? Why didn't someone tell me about this magical aspect of the stock before this? I feel cheated.

It's just like a video game; pick up a magical device and endless ammo.

[Bailey Guns]

This incident has opened a whole new world of stupid in DC.

[MarkCO]

This incident has opened a whole new world of stupid in DC.

They were already concentrated there.

[68Charger]

This incident has opened a whole new world of stupid in DC.

The stupid was already there, its' just demanding attention now...

[Gman]

+ 1,000,000,000,0000,000....


The ATF could change the definition of a Semi-automatic firearm to include: "The trigger of all semi-automatic firearms must be naturally pressed and then released allowing it to return to the static state while firing only one round. A firearm (or device intended to alter such function) not manufactured as such must request ATF classification prior to any use." Actually would mitigate several issues and by so doing, might bypass legislation.
Q: "So with your Slide Fire accessory equipped, it's still the finger that actuates the trigger?"
A: "Naturally."

[RblDiver]

Ban belt loops.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD213VW6WjY

[Fmedges]

The ATF could change the definition of a Semi-automatic firearm to include: "The trigger of all semi-automatic firearms must be naturally pressed and then released allowing it to return to the static state while firing only one round. A firearm (or device intended to alter such function) not manufactured as such must request ATF classification prior to any use." Actually would mitigate several issues and by so doing, might bypass legislation.

Never. Don't change anything. Laws only effect the law abiding citizen.

[Zcsdkr]

Why is it When some psychotic person does unthinkable evil and breaks hundreds of laws... people cry out for more laws ?!?

[BPTactical]

Why is it When some psychotic person does unthinkable evil and breaks hundreds of laws... people cry out for more laws ?!?

Because it makes them feel better, it reinforces in their arrogant minds that THEY did something...

[Joe_K]

I would gladly give an inch in exchange for a mile. The left can regulate, tax, ban, or otherwise restrict bump/slide fire stocks. In exchange the 1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, 1986 Hughes laws/Ammendments are reversed. Seems fair to me. Over the counter full auto, Suppressed, SBR's sans BGC, or a 4473 for me and you, and Bubba can't buy Slide Fire stocks. Seems like a win-win to me.


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