Las Vegas Incident

[Ronin13]

Check out the pictures in the link. There are guns randomly thrown about on every surface. That's freaking weird.
I'm sorry, there are some things that don't add up here.

I agree... There are a lot of things that don't add up. I'm no angler, but something smells fishy.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I see we are back to trying to rationalize crazy.

[crays]

I was looking at that inventory earlier today. I even printed it out for further study, but forgot to bring it home. Boo...

A couple things caught my eye.
First, do they NOT have a sort/filter feature in their report generator? There are (3) 590's, and (2) each Armalites (same model) and Sig 516's, peppered thoughout the list. It might not bother anyone else but me, but I actually do find it annoying. And that doesn't even cover several other pages of inventory not posted above.
Second, was it really necessary to define the Saiga 12's as AK-47 Style semi-automatic shotguns? Is this report to state facts, or to influence opinions?

Enough from me...

[hollohas]

Even crazy people do things for a reason. Even crazy people can and do follow normal human behavior in some regard. There's entire professions dedicated to making sense of why murders do things and to follow patterns of behavior to make sense of crazy people's actions. And looking for things that don't make sense as a means to help discover what really happened.

This guy did lots of things that make sense to his goal. He planned and executed that plan. He brought tools specific to executing that plan. (Cameras, hammer to break the glass, etc). Identifing things that don't match the sort of characteristics this guy seems to have shown is a worthwhile exercise. No, we won't be solving any crimes. But, yes, this sort of discussion is interesting.

[GilpinGuy]

I don't know what to make of this:

Republican Pennsylvania Rep. Scott Perry appeared on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight” Thursday and claimed that he has been “made aware” of “credible information regarding potential terrorist infiltration through the southern border” on the Las Vegas massacre.

LINK (http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/18/perry-potential-terrorist-las-vegas/)

[hollohas]

Exactly - it is of interest, and some of the most predictable people I've found are in fact "crazy". Trying to understand their actions and thought process also may help to better identify and understanding "risky" people - even when subconsciously judging them in those first few seconds of meeting. (Rather than just "I gotta bad feeling..." it's nice to know why, exactly)


To me it's sort of like people watching.

Understanding people is a skill. Identifying risky people is one way to use the skill. It can be used in many ways.

I used to be on the road 120+ days a year. I spent a LOT of time people watching in airports. I got very good at identifying things like when a flight was going to be delayed or cancelled by doing nothing more than watching airport personnel. There were multiple times when I had already booked a different flight an hour before they announced a flight was cancelled. While I was walking to another gate to board, everyone else was standing in line at customer service.

Studying human behavior can be extremely valuable.

[Skip]

Document shows police ID’d 2nd ‘person of interest’ in days after Las Vegas shooting

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/Document-shows-police-IDd-2nd-person-of-interest-in-days-after-Las-Vegas-shooting/



“Until the investigation can rule otherwise, Marilou Danley and Douglas Haig have become persons of interest who may have conspired with Stephen Paddock to commit Murder with a Deadly Weapon,” according to the Metropolitan Police Department document, which was prepared in October.

We knew about the girlfriend but not the other subject.

No info on if he has/had been ruled out. But it's only been four months, and the bump stock bans are still ongoing, so we're hardly entitled to know.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Studying human behavior can be extremely valuable.

Yes it can be. Either in slow repetitive encounters over time, or those times in crowds where lots of shit is going on.


I look at stuff a lot closer now than I did even 15 or 20 years ago. It can also be really funny, really boring and often a waste of time.

It's the times that you're not watching or paying attention that could end up costing your own or someone else's life.

[kidicarus13]

An Arizona man identified in court documents as a "person of interest" after the Las Vegas massacre says he sold ammunition to the gunman Stephen Paddock.

Douglas Haig says he met the gunman one time and he had been contacted by investigators earlier in the case.

Haig told The Associated Press on Tuesday night: "I am the guy who sold ammunition to Stephen Paddock,"

Haig did not release other details before walking into his home in the Phoenix suburb of Mesa.

A law enforcement official told The Associated Press in October that Paddock bought 1,000 rounds of tracer ammunition from a private seller he met at a Phoenix gun show. The official spoke anonymously because they weren't authorized to disclose case information.

Records show Haig owns Specialized Military Ammunition, LLC. The company's website says it sold tracer and incendiary ammunition but is now "closed indefinitely."

[hollohas]

It appears the coroner is fighting the release of the autopsy. This seems awfully strange.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/investigations/judge-orders-release-of-las-vegas-shooting-autopsy-reports/

[hollohas]

Records show Haig owns Specialized Military Ammunition, LLC. The company's website says it sold tracer and incendiary ammunition but is now "closed indefinitely."

Not only that, his LinkedIn page is being passed around and it claims he has DOD Clearance and works as small arms ammunition engineer for a government contractors. Too bad LinkedIn doesn't show when a page is created. The page reads like a government conspiracy wet dream. If it's fake, someone put a lot of work into it.

[BPTactical]

And it it gets weirder:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/investigations/judge-orders-release-of-las-vegas-shooting-autopsy-reports/

[00tec]

Ammo guy charged for manufacturing armor piercing ammo.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/02/us/douglas-haig-las-vegas-massacre/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

[KevDen2005]

Ammo guy charged for manufacturing armor piercing ammo.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/02/us/douglas-haig-las-vegas-massacre/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

This is ridiculous

[hollohas]

This is ridiculousThat was my thought. What exactly is the definition of an ammo piercing bullet?

[KevDen2005]

That was my thought. What exactly is the definition of an ammo piercing bullet?

That's just bad editing.

I suppose I find more ridiculous that we might be setting a precedent of a manufacturer being responsible for something else. I realize that haven't charged him complicit in the murders at Las Vegas.

[hollohas]

No. I'm serious, what is the federal definition of an AP bullet?

Because I know there are regulations on AP ammo for handguns, right? But I have never heard of a federal law against manufacturing any kind of ammo. I'm curious on what exactly was the basis for the charges.

[hollohas]

To answer hollo: Only 5.56 and 30-06 are legal AP (rifle). 308 is not (using 30-06 .308 pulled bullets). Based on the AR-10's on site, this could be the issue. (Selling 308 AP rounds made from M2 AP pulled 30-06 bullets which are the correct caliber, but making legal bullets illegal)

Thanks. I learned something today.

Note to self. Don't do this. ^

[KevDen2005]

Thanks. I learned something today.

Note to self. Don't do this. ^

The More You Know

[Circuits]

I'm going to guess he was reloading (probably pulled bullets), selling his reloads, and didn't have the appropriate FFL for selling ammunition.
To answer hollo: Only 5.56 and 30-06 are legal AP (rifle). 308 is not (using 30-06 .308 pulled bullets). Based on the AR-10's on site, this could be the issue. (Selling 308 AP rounds made from M2 AP pulled 30-06 bullets which are the correct caliber, but making legal bullets illegal)

5.56 and 30-06 AP are not exempted in general - just specifically M2 30-06 and M855 5.56 (and M855 isn't really AP). M995 5.56, which actually is AP, is not exempted, for instance.

All AP is legal to possess, sell and use, for non-FFLs. Non-FFLs can make all the AP ammo they want for personal use.

What is not legal is making or importing ammo for RESALE without a license. The fun wrinkle is that importer and manufacturer FFLs are also restricted from selling that AP ammo except for export, testing and to government entities. Those restrictions only apply to importer and manufacturer FFLs by statute, and not to regular dealer FFLs or non-FFL persons or entities. Because of this restriction, the only way real AP can usually make it into commercial sale channels is if it was sold to an intermediary, like a dealer FFL or non-FFL wholesaler to fulfill a government or export contract, then that contract sale didn't go through or had over-runs.

I guess a non-FFL could also have loaded some up for personal use, then died, leaving AP ammo in their estate which could also legally be conveyed.

[Skip]

FBI Insiders Blow Whistle on Massive Las Vegas Cover Up; Agents Told Not to Investigate Key Evidence Including ISIS Terror Link to Mandalay Bay Massacre

https://truepundit.com/fbi-insiders-blow-whistle-massive-las-vegas-cover-agents-told-not-investigate-key-evidence-including-isis-terror-link-mandalay-bay-massacre/


[snip]

When FBI brass was provided the names of persons of interest who likely assisted Paddock, agents were instructed not to interview the individuals. One would-be target was never pursued despite pleadings from intelligence officials and agents that he was possibly the second shooter.

The FBI uncovered specific evidence showing that Paddock was anti-Trump and had an affiliation with ANTIFA, though it never was divulged to the public and agents did not follow such leads, per orders of their superiors.

When FBI brass was given evidence that the shooting was possibly linked to ANTIFA radicals working with an ISIS-linked terror faction— including the full identities of some of the suspects with ties to both radical groups and at or near Mandalay Bay the night of the deadly shooting — agents were never instructed to follow up on the investigation and pursue the suspects.

[snip]

It wouldn't surprise but this seems unconfirmed.

I posted previously Trump is very worried about domestic security and therefore sympathetic to gun control. I wouldn't be surprised if the details have been withheld to avoid alarming the public.

Remember how the media dropped this like this a hot potato?

[Irving]

My fake news radar is pinging. Interesting if any of it turns out to be true.

[Skip]

My fake news radar is pinging. Interesting if any of it turns out to be true.

Yup, I would need to see confirmation myself.

[Irving]

Anything that sounds like an Alt-right wet dream, usually is. Anti-Trump, Antifa, AND ISIS? Haha, sure truepundit.

[GilpinGuy]

Not buying it, but who knows. Still no pics or video huh? Interesting......

[TheGrey]

This whole conspiracy has certainly grown legs...and there are so many unanswered questions that I'm surprised there aren't more theories being floated around.

The coroner's report seems very...anemic? Thin?

Just what is going on, anyhow?

[TFOGGER]

Sure has been quiet concerning this incident, given its large scope and impact...

[Mazin]

It's because the left took all that emotion from Vegas and since the cover stories got all jacked they couldn't use it till now.

[zteknik]

School shootings are the agenda push now, Las Vegas is passé now.

Sent from my E6833 using Tapatalk

[Gman]

Shooting rednecks at a country concert (who are probably Republicans anyway) doesn't warrant the attention.

[TFOGGER]

It's because the left took all that emotion from Vegas and since the cover stories got all jacked they couldn't use it till now.

One would think that in the intervening time, they would have made an effort to consolidate their narrative and come up with at least plausible explanations for the conflicting stories. By keeping silent, they're only encouraging weirdos like us ahem...conspiracy theorists to keep digging and find info they really don't want to come out.

[davsel]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/03/wayne-allyn-root-vegas-massacre-expose-really-happened/

[GilpinGuy]

Some unremarkable video has been released: LINK (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/us/las-vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock.html)