View Full Version : Boulder AR-15 Ban
Latest news from a council member that I ran into last night out on the town is that Carr was trying to use the California definition of pistol grip which is defines a pistol grip as a grip that lowers more than some measured distance from the centerline of the bore or something like that so in many instances regular stocked rifles would be considered to have pistol grips. This member was not on board with that and has been doing some research and has acknowledge that Australia never really had any gun crime before their ban and it hasn't changed much since. This member has been doing a lot of research and is now moving away from the ban as written and is pushing towards a ban on bump stocks and trigger rate devices only and sending any kind of a ban to vote as a ballot initiative where it will likely die.
This sounds like pretty good news. Are the other council members getting cold feet as well?
Will1776
04-07-2018, 20:18
Looks like the thorsden stocks are going to become popular in Boulder
I did get one response so far. My email was implying that the decision was made and we are just going through the formalities.
Hello Mike,
Let me be very clear. We DID NOT pass the ban, I would not have voted for it if that had been the case. The news paper was not clear, but I want you to know, the only reason Council voted to approve the first reading was so we could discuss the ban at a future date. The public comment ended at 11:15 and Council thought it best to have this discussion when our brains were fresh.
I am hoping this proposal will instead get put on a ballot measure for people to vote on, rather than Council choosing it for the people.
Best,
Mirabai Nagle
Boulder City Council
Great-Kazoo
04-08-2018, 00:14
I did get one response so far. My email was implying that the decision was made and we are just going through the formalities.
Hello Mike,
Let me be very clear. We DID NOT pass the ban, I would not have voted for it if that had been the case. The news paper was not clear, but I want you to know, the only reason Council voted to approve the first reading was so we could discuss the ban at a future date. The public comment ended at 11:15 and Council thought it best to have this discussion when our brains were fresh.
I am hoping this proposal will instead get put on a ballot measure for people to vote on, rather than Council choosing it for the people.
Best,
Mirabai Nagle
Boulder City Council
If this is the case. Sounds like they're hoping the same NEVER TRUMP / RESIST people come out in force to vote D, they get enough Yes votes for a ban. This way they can say "the People of Boulder Voted" for the ban. .
CoGirl303
04-08-2018, 08:20
Dudley has an interesting perspective.
Saying that if Boulder is allowed to claim home rule exemption, then pro-gun cities can turn around and do the same with regards to the magazine ban.
http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/next/would-colorados-firearm-preemption-law-stop-boulders-assault-weapons-ban/73-536113594?
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Dudley has an interesting perspective.
Saying that if Boulder is allowed to claim home rule exemption, then pro-gun cities can turn around and do the same with regards to the magazine ban.
http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/next/would-colorados-firearm-preemption-law-stop-boulders-assault-weapons-ban/73-536113594?
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[Pop]
Dudley has an interesting perspective.
Saying that if Boulder is allowed to claim home rule exemption, then pro-gun cities can turn around and do the same with regards to the magazine ban.
http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/next/would-colorados-firearm-preemption-law-stop-boulders-assault-weapons-ban/73-536113594?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot Dudleys idea.. Dudley showed up to get his name on the list tonspeak and wasn't anywhere to be seen when his name was called.
There is no support for this in Boulder, if this goes to ballot it is dead. This is a face saving move for the council.
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.455_Hunter
04-08-2018, 19:42
Not Dudleys idea.. Dudley showed up to get his name on the list tonspeak and wasn't anywhere to be seen when his name was called.
There is no support for this in Boulder, if this goes to ballot it is dead. This is a face saving move for the council.
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Maybe a few of the Moms Who Demand Hot Action will support it...
Maybe a few of the Moms Who Demand Hot Action will support it...Half of the Moms that showed up weren't even from Boulder as far as I could tell. I think certain members of the council have realized they have gotten themselves in over their heads and are now looking for a way out. There are at least two that we know of that are openly telling people they think it should go to ballot. Their inboxes are being blown up and they know their emails along with the speakers at the meeting the other night are heavily against this. Everyone needs to keep the pressure on.
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Who would have thought Boulder is the one that loves with country and Denver is the sell out politicians?
CoGirl303
04-08-2018, 20:56
Sent all my correspondence out. I'll wait for the follow up.
COUNCIL MEMBER BOB YATES
720-310-5829
yatesb@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER CINDY CARLISLE
303-434-1456
carlislec@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER JILL ADLER GRANO
303-917-6810
granoj@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER LISA MORZEL
303-815-6723
morzell@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER MARY D. YOUNG
303-501-2439
youngm@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER MIRABAI KUK NAGLE
303-818-4128
naglem@bouldercolorado.gov
COUNCIL MEMBER SAM WEAVER
303-416-6130
WeaverS@bouldercolorado.gov
MAYOR SUZANNE JONES
720-633-7388
joness@bouldercolorado.gov
MAYOR PRO TEM AARON BROCKETT
720-984-1863
brocketta@bouldercolorado.gov
sent them an email as well even though I don't live in Boulder. Thanks for the addresses.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31803975/boulder-councilman-let-voters-decide-assault-weapon-ban
Finally getting some comments about putting it to a vote in public. Would it make any difference in terms of state preemption if it was passed by the council vs. passed by a vote?
Boulder being a home rule city I don’t believe it would make a difference. Also there’s supposed to be an event called “Rally For Our Rights” in Boulder on Saturday from 1p-3p in the park at Broadway and Canyon. I think it’s the same folks that organized the one in Longmont a week or so ago? Can’t link from fb on cell.
pickenup
04-16-2018, 22:48
Can’t link from fb on cell.
Daily camera has it.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31809686
Boulder being a home rule city I don’t believe it would make a difference. Also there’s supposed to be an event called “Rally For Our Rights” in Boulder on Saturday from 1p-3p in the park at Broadway and Canyon. I think it’s the same folks that organized the one in Longmont a week or so ago? Can’t link from fb on cell.
I'm for sure going to be there. Can't decide if I want to open carry or not though. Leaning towards not.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 09:37
Open carry is legally problematic in most city and county park/open space areas along the Front Range.
Go concealed.
Open carry is legally problematic in most city and county park/open space areas along the Front Range.
Go concealed.
Yeah, I was reading the Boulder municipal code in regards to open carry and I couldn't really find anything that explicitly said it was ok. Plus, for public perception reasons I will be going concealed.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 12:28
Some additional info gleaned from a little birdie...
As expected, the ordnance does not apply to non-city residents in vehicles passing through Boulder with legally owned firearms or magazines of any type, no matter what they do in Boulder- just keep your stuff in your car.
As expected, the ordinance does not apply to persons carrying any legal handgun on a concealed carry permit. So your G17 with pre-6/13 17 rd mags are fine. Your AR pistol in a backpack with lawfully owned 30 rd mags would be fine.
Here is the kicker- They are looking at adding an exemption for anyone with a Colorado honored concealed carry permit from the entire ordnance. This would be a way for current gun owning Boulder city residents (many of whom probably already have their permit) to continue business as usual. The Sheriff's permit office would get real busy, but that's another discussion.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
Still bullshit, and unenforceable under the current CRS.
Here is the kicker- They are looking at adding an exemption for anyone with a Colorado honored concealed carry permit from the entire ordnance. This would be a way for current gun owning Boulder city residents (many of whom probably already have their permit) to continue business as usual. The Sheriff's permit office would get real busy, but that's another discussion.
Your thoughts?
So CCW holders are exempt from everything, including registration? Interesting.
I am still against any regulation that infringes, but this certainly makes living in Boulder more palatable. You shouldn't have to pay $152 to exercise a right. I did, but that was because I wanted to carry a concealed handgun if I choose to.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 13:33
Still bullshit, and unenforceable under the current CRS.
True.
So they're softening you up by making it a toothless law...
It is still a major win for them if it passes, even if it does absolutely nothing about what its supposed "intent" is. The true intent (read: Long Game) is to backdoor ALL gun owners of their rights. Future efforts will not be toothless. Incrementalism and normalization is their forte.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 14:35
No a fan of making people pay to access essential liberties, but that door has already been beaten open.
Will1776
04-17-2018, 16:04
So CCW holders are exempt from everything, including registration? Interesting.
I am still against any regulation that infringes, but this certainly makes living in Boulder more palatable. You shouldn't have to pay $152 to exercise a right. I did, but that was because I wanted to carry a concealed handgun if I choose to.
This is what they did in my home state of CT. You need a permit there to buy ammo or even a 22 rifle which, including the training requirements can run up to 2-300 dollars and 60 days of waiting after submitting your paperwork. Pistol permit there became the defacto all around "gun permit" there.
CoGirl303
04-17-2018, 17:32
Some additional info gleaned from a little birdie...
As expected, the ordnance does not apply to non-city residents in vehicles passing through Boulder with legally owned firearms or magazines of any type, no matter what they do in Boulder- just keep your stuff in your car.
As expected, the ordinance does not apply to persons carrying any legal handgun on a concealed carry permit. So your G17 with pre-6/13 17 rd mags are fine. Your AR pistol in a backpack with lawfully owned 30 rd mags would be fine.
Here is the kicker- They are looking at adding an exemption for anyone with a Colorado honored concealed carry permit from the entire ordnance. This would be a way for current gun owning Boulder city residents (many of whom probably already have their permit) to continue business as usual. The Sheriff's permit office would get real busy, but that's another discussion.
Your thoughts?
so does that apply to only current permit holders as sort of a "grandfather clause situation" or will they allow new permit holders to be exempt after it passes as well?
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.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 17:46
so does that apply to only current permit holders as sort of a "grandfather clause situation" or will they allow new permit holders to be exempt after it passes as well?
My understanding it would be for current and future permit holders. For what its worth, they like the additional "vetting" of the permit process, and realize that people with permits are not the ones to be worried about. Again, this is their thought process, not mine.
Also there’s supposed to be an event called “Rally For Our Rights” in Boulder on Saturday from 1p-3p in the park at Broadway and Canyon.
That is going to displace a lot of homeless/transients/beggers.
It’s all bull shit in the end.. Don’t settle for anything but nothing. I have been in regular contact with one of the members here and the fact that many of them are back peddling shows that there is zero support for this in town, yes even in Boulder, they know it, and that putting this to a public ballot is a way for them to save face.
The city council member with the most votes at 5000 or so was Sam Weaver.. out of 80,000 people that voted in the last election. If people cared about the city council they would all easily be voted out by the actual number of firearms owners in Boulder which I believe to be higher than the national average. There should be close to 45,000 people voting for gun rights in Boulder if not more,
As for open carry protest.. I’m not for it. Any form of open carry protest will be portrayed by the media as a bunch of crazy gun nuts not unlike the Home Depot Tikki torch carriers of the fatal march a few months back in Virginia or whatever.
If you want to portray what we are as being law abiding regular next door neighbor people then that’s what you need to show, there is a large group of people that are indifferent out there that could be swayed either way.. the crazy rifle carrying guys or the people that look just like them..
As for the exemptions of certain groups of people goes.. the exemption would allow you to buy/sell prohibited items but you would still need to put your name in the registry.. those not on the exemption list would be on the registry and not be able to buy any additional exempted items.
Exemption or not you are still subject to putting your name on a list. I will not put my name on a list. A list only leads to future discrimination or confiscation. It opens you to danger whether it be a public/business/social black list or a way for a random person to Dox or Swat you.
.455_Hunter
04-17-2018, 22:06
It all sounds like a lot of back peddling and attempts to save face. I surmise there is way more "back door" communication occuring between the council and various Boulder power brokers who happen to be gun owners. Grano is probably dumfounded on why her "no brainier" ordinance is proving to be just that- she has no clue other her set of official issue gun control talking points.
It all sounds like a lot of back peddling and attempts to save face. I surmise there is way more "back door" communication occuring between the council and various Boulder power brokers who happen to be gun owners. Grano is probably dumfounded on why her "no brainier" ordinance is proving to be just that- she has no clue other her set of official issue gun control talking points.
I believe she also has only moved here in the last 8 or 9 years, she may be part of whatever her scene is but in the end she is not a “local” and she may be finally figuring that out. I also heard that the new Google complex had a number of windows smashed in recently, Boulder has a subversive crowd that is willing to push back when needed.
Over my 18 years of living here I have had vastly more pro gun conversations in town than anti. The Council meeting the other night bore that out.
And I also believe that some of the council members have lost faith in the city attorney after his crappy presentation where he appeared to not know anything about what he was presenting.
I'm looking at this as $h*at rolls up hill. If Boulder rolls over, we are next. Glad to see the realistic opposition to an unenforceable council initiative. Use the scapegoat to the voters as a ballot initiative.
If they want to cry home rule, let's do it. Put a ballot initiative for normal capacity mags, suppressors, bump fire stocks, the whole nine yards.
Sadly, overturning county officials isn't viable. It's Boulder! More of a chance in Aurora.
BTW I used to stand in line, at the grocery store, with open carry six shooters in front of me. I recently heard that open carry was now illegal in Ned. Three years ago I could tell you everywhere an IL man went. Why? Because he had a 1911 strapped on his belt and was happy to be in a free state.
Been in Ned for 18 years an still don't call myself a local. In CO for 22. I absolutely hate these farks who roll in, buy a big house and say they are locals. No you aren't, you are squatters.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBQE ZCwzex eb
Great-Kazoo
04-18-2018, 07:13
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBQE ZCwzex eb
LIKE ! [LOL]
As for open carry protest.. I’m not for it. Any form of open carry protest will be portrayed by the media as a bunch of crazy gun nuts not unlike the Home Depot Tikki torch carriers of the fatal march a few months back in Virginia or whatever.
If you want to portray what we are as being law abiding regular next door neighbor people then that’s what you need to show, there is a large group of people that are indifferent out there that could be swayed either way.. the crazy rifle carrying guys or the people that look just like them..
Agreed.
As for the exemptions of certain groups of people goes.. the exemption would allow you to buy/sell prohibited items but you would still need to put your name in the registry.. those not on the exemption list would be on the registry and not be able to buy any additional exempted items.
Exemption or not you are still subject to putting your name on a list. I will not put my name on a list. A list only leads to future discrimination or confiscation. It opens you to danger whether it be a public/business/social black list or a way for a random person to Dox or Swat you.
Double agreed. Weird that they would still require CCWs to register, and not LEOs.
CoGirl303
04-18-2018, 20:30
a CCW is already a form of a illegal registration imo. They know you have a handgun at minimum.
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You can get a CCW without even owning a gun. Doubt anyone does though.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBQE ZCwzex eb
LIKE ! [LOL]
Oops, the damned Microsoft Surface has become dysfunctional with it's freezes and along with the retarded "unlimited" Verizon throttling, both are killing me..... [Mad]
It's like I'm back in 1990 with a 64K IBM PC and dial up service. I need to make some changes.
BTW, I was going to suggest listening to Dave Kopel's interview discussing the Boulder ban attempt by the fascists on the city council.
http://www.michellemorin.org/boulder-city-council-plans-to-ban-guns-expert-dave-kopel-joins-me-with-an-update-and-expert-analysis/
thedave1164
04-19-2018, 06:28
You can get a CCW without even owning a gun. Doubt anyone does though.
LOL, I did
I got my CCW in OR as soon as they made it shall issue, I had sold off all my guns in AK before moving back to OR
Great-Kazoo
04-19-2018, 08:19
a CCW is already a form of a illegal registration imo. They know you have a handgun at minimum.
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All they know, at time of application is you're getting a permit. Once that's done there's no "list" you're on when pulled over. I've received permits from states that required a cert for verification and some $$. None of them ever listed what weapon you were carrying, like some states do.
Is this a sign the gun control crowd is worried it won't pass if put to a vote.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31815882/gun-control-advocates-boulder-assault-weapons-ban
Gun control advocates urge Boulder not to push assault-weapons ban to November election
"Supporters of Boulder's proposed ban on assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines are imploring the City Council not to put the proposal to a public vote in November, and rather to pass the ban at the council level as soon as possible."
Is this a sign the gun control crowd is worried it won't pass if put to a vote.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31815882/gun-control-advocates-boulder-assault-weapons-ban
Gun control advocates urge Boulder not to push assault-weapons ban to November election
"Supporters of Boulder's proposed ban on assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines are imploring the City Council not to put the proposal to a public vote in November, and rather to pass the ban at the council level as soon as possible."
That and it will drive Republican and pro 2A voter turnout, thus hosing their candidates chances.
DenverGP
04-19-2018, 10:19
Is this a sign the gun control crowd is worried it won't pass if put to a vote.
They don't want this issue to bring out conservative voters during the elections. Having this on the ballot would help all conservative candidates.
"While he may be a 'very nice man,'" Rodda wrote, "the owner of that gun shop is placing all of our children and community members at risk. As your city attorney has explained to you, he has no constitutional right to sell, buy or be in possession of, a semi automatic weapon.
I think I almost just had an aneurysm.
Almost makes me want to OC at the rally out of spite.
Only 42 of those speakers are verified as Boulder citizens, the group reported, and at least 33 of the 81 people who spoke against the proposed ban are from out of town.
I wonder how many of the antis that spoke were from Boulder. Maybe I should do my own research.
.455_Hunter
04-19-2018, 17:14
I think I almost just had an aneurysm.
Yup- The comments by those women, including the rebuke to the council member for daring to not nod in 100% agreement, typifies the opposition.
I wonder how many of the antis that spoke were from Boulder. Maybe I should do my own research.
You must remember, its perfectly fine for THEM to bring in out of town speakers.
Will1776
04-19-2018, 19:14
Is this a sign the gun control crowd is worried it won't pass if put to a vote.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31815882/gun-control-advocates-boulder-assault-weapons-ban
Gun control advocates urge Boulder not to push assault-weapons ban to November election
"Supporters of Boulder's proposed ban on assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines are imploring the City Council not to put the proposal to a public vote in November, and rather to pass the ban at the council level as soon as possible."
If most people support such an infringement as they say what do they have to be afraid of? Oh wait...
http://news.gallup.com/poll/196658/support-assault-weapons-ban-record-low.aspx
BPTactical
04-19-2018, 21:19
If most people support such an infringement as they say what do they have to be afraid of? Oh wait...
http://news.gallup.com/poll/196658/support-assault-weapons-ban-record-low.aspx
Maybe the average American is waking up and realizing a 7 pound machine is not the problem.
If most people support such an infringement as they say what do they have to be afraid of? Oh wait...
http://news.gallup.com/poll/196658/support-assault-weapons-ban-record-low.aspx
That poll is from Oct. 2016. Although I hope the sentiment hasn't changed, I suspect it has shifted at least a little.
68Charger
04-20-2018, 06:17
I think I almost just had an aneurysm.
Almost makes me want to OC at the rally out of spite.
I wonder how many of the antis that spoke were from Boulder. Maybe I should do my own research.
Would probably be better to start asking for signatures to recall council members in the event they don't put it to a vote and unilaterally decide against a good portion of their constituents... that could get their collective attention, considering Morse's career at this point.
Will1776
04-20-2018, 14:11
That poll is from Oct. 2016. Although I hope the sentiment hasn't changed, I suspect it has shifted at least a little.
yeah support for a ban always goes up within a month or less after a shooting then it goes back down. But support for gun control overall has definitely declined a lot over the past 20 years.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31826801/boulder-police-made-tactical-decision-let-demonstrators-break
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31826845/boulder-councilman-withdraws-proposal-refer-assault-weapons-ban?source=mostpopular
Looks like we're boned unless the courts decide in our favor.
They don't want this issue to bring out conservative voters during the elections. Having this on the ballot would help all conservative candidates.
After reading both articles linked by boxy above, I am not surprised by the mayor's comments [1], but I am left to wonder if coucilman Sam Weaver is truly offended or is being coached and/or pressured by his party to use the rally situation to backtrack [3] on his previous position [2], due to the reasonable assertion made by Denver GP, quoted above.
[1]
mayor 1st link article
"I appreciate," the mayor said of Saturday's rally, "that it is more than a little disturbing to see people walking around with open-carry assault weapons, which perhaps underscores the reason why we're addressing this issue in the first place."
[2]
Weaver original position 2nd link article
Weaver said earlier this month that he'd be seeking support from his council colleagues for a change of course.
Rather than approving the proposal at the council level, the city's elected leaders should let Boulder voters decide in November, Weaver argued.
"It's the most democratic way," he said April 13.
[3]
Weaver backtrack 2nd link article
(violations are references to Boulder's open carry laws)
"I think people in the Boulder community are pretty disturbed by the violation of our firearm carry laws, and I was personally a little bit disturbed that people came into our community and broke our laws and seemed to be intentional in that," Weaver said Monday.
"That's made me think we need to take action sooner than later on assault weapons."
Weaver called the display a "disrespectful action to our community."
ETA: assualt weapons, assualt weapons, assualt weapons... Tiresome.
I also find the "disrespectful action to our community" a little elitist. I guess it's perfectly OK to disrespect the rights of members of your community, though.
.455_Hunter
04-24-2018, 09:45
I am still clueless to why people think this is somehow a "Boulder Only" issue. If it passes and is allowed to stand by the courts, EVERY major city in Colorado with a liberal majority city council will be pushing the same thing.
Oh, and by the way, good job to the OC'ers who made it all about them and not the proposed ordnance. [facepalm].
I am still clueless to why people think this is somehow a "Boulder Only" issue. If it passes and is allowed to stand by the courts, EVERY major city in Colorado with a liberal majority city council will be pushing the same thing.
It's a way to delegitimize the opposition. By stating that these people from out of town's voices are not relevant, you take a big bite out of the dissent.
Or did you mean other gun owners?
.455_Hunter
04-24-2018, 10:13
No. I mean gun owners across the state who view this issue as "stupid Boulder being stupid Boulder" and don't realize how soon it's going to be on their doorstep in Littleton, Fort Collins, Thornton, Aurora, etc.
BPTactical
04-24-2018, 10:13
"I appreciate," the mayor said of Saturday's rally, "that it is more than a little disturbing to see people walking around with open-carry assault weapons, which perhaps underscores the reason why we're addressing this issue in the first place."
Hey asshole- people wouldn't "Open carry of assault weapons" if you did not push them to where they feel that course of action is necessary when their Rights are threatened.
Don't start no shit, won't be no shit.
No. I mean gun owners across the state who view this issue as "stupid Boulder being stupid Boulder" and don't realize how soon it's going to be on their doorstep in Littleton, Fort Collins, Thornton, Aurora, etc.
Gotcha. Yes, I agree. It is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant to think that other municipalities won't try the same thing.
CoGirl303
04-24-2018, 10:41
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31826801/boulder-police-made-tactical-decision-let-demonstrators-break
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31826845/boulder-councilman-withdraws-proposal-refer-assault-weapons-ban?source=mostpopular
Looks like we're boned unless the courts decide in our favor.
what a bunch of cowards.
After it passes every AR-15 owner in the state should flood the streets of Boulder and open carry their AR-15's in a show of protest and defiance against this unconstitutional aggregiousness.
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If they pass this, there will be a lawsuit filed and preliminary injunction in place before the ink dries. The only people that will benefit are the lawyers.
Disappointed with Sam.. I've had a number of conversations with him as I worked for him for a summer and know him personally.. He seemed to have turned around on this.. My conversations with him were that others on the council were also changing their minds.
I believe I stated earlier in this thread that open carry was a bad protest idea and that the only thing that would come of it would be that the news would only picture the rednecks with guns.. Well that's what seems to have happened.. Thanks a lot.
I agree the open cary protest was a horrible idea.
I believe I stated earlier in this thread that open carry was a bad protest idea and that the only thing that would come of it would be that the news would only picture the rednecks with guns.. Well that's what seems to have happened.. Thanks a lot.
Yes, we should have been good Rosas and sat in the back of the bus so we were invisible.
Someday you folks will figure out how bad your "let's be invidible" tactics are.
O2
Yes, we should have been good Rosas and sat in the back of the bus so we were invisible.
Someday you folks will figure out how bad your "let's be invidible" tactics are.
O2
Well, your FUCK YOU protest turned a guy around that I believe I had turned against this law. All it did was give the Daily Camera something to report and cement the idea that gun owners are nut jobs.
A protest made up of a bunch of pro 2A people that look like normal average everyday people is going to make a bigger impact to the average person on the street that may or may not have a side in this issue. What could the Camera have said if there were no guns present? Well, they definitely would not have been able to write 3 articles now on the crazy gun nuts defying city law and council members would have seen that pro 2A people are no different than them.
Showing up at all makes people visible. Showing up with rifles completely forfeits whatever message people thought they wanted to share.
Until guns are normalized we're playing defense. As long as we're on the defensive we're going to lose.
We can learn this lesson now or later, when it won't matter anymore.
So, sure, be a good boy and sit in the back of the bus, out of sight.
If this vote goes south, open carry will have had zero to do with it.
O2
kidicarus13
04-24-2018, 13:24
The only people that will benefit are the lawyers.
I've come to realize that this is a common thread throughout life.
What could the Camera have said if there were no guns present?
They would have found something. On the order of 25 years ago I led an April 19th protest at the state capitol - back in the days of trying to make Colorado a "shall issue" state. Suggested dress code was suit and tie.
99.9% of the people showed up dressed in coat and tie. Press coverage? The 00.1% camo clad folks with shirts that said stuff like "Shoot 'em all, let God sort 'em out".
The press is our enemy. They will go to any length to cast us in a bad light. If not a single gun was visible they would have found something else to focus on.
O2
Until guns are normalized we're playing defense. As long as we're on the defensive we're going to lose.
We can learn this lesson now or later, when it won't matter anymore.
So, sure, be a good boy and sit in the back of the bus, out of sight.
If this vote goes south, open carry will have had zero to do with it.
O2
Carrying rifles around in town isn't normal, never has been, and never will be. Gays in the 90's told everyone how normal they were and how they were just like everyone else. Then swung their dicks from the tops of parade floats and walked around naked everywhere. Open carrying is the same thing. If you want to point out how normal something is, then act normal about it.
Yes, we should have been good Rosas and sat in the back of the bus so we were invisible.
Someday you folks will figure out how bad your "let's be invidible" tactics are.
O2
Showing up to protest in the first place is in fact being visible. Showing up and breaking laws with an open carry rifle is not a good way to make a point. Like was mentioned before this had a counterproductive effect in that it actually pushed people away from the point of the protest. There is a certain amount of tact to take into account when trying to prove a point.
They would have found something. On the order of 25 years ago I led an April 19th protest at the state capitol - back in the days of trying to make Colorado a "shall issue" state. Suggested dress code was suit and tie.
99.9% of the people showed up dressed in coat and tie. Press coverage? The 00.1% camo clad folks with shirts that said stuff like "Shoot 'em all, let God sort 'em out".
The press is our enemy. They will go to any length to cast us in a bad light. If not a single gun was visible they would have found something else to focus on.
O2
And? Make them work for it then. Don't sick cousin
Bubba on the community just because the press will find something bad anyway. If people do their best to not act like a bunch of shit throwing monkeys, then maybe the "bad" stuff the press finds won't really be that bad.
Gays in the 90's told everyone how normal they were and how they were just like everyone else.
So are you saying they haven't moved their agenda forward at all since the 90s? I think you just blew a huge hole in your own argument.
O2
Carrying rifles around in town isn't normal, never has been, and never will be. Gays in the 90's told everyone how normal they were and how they were just like everyone else. Then swung their dicks from the tops of parade floats and walked around naked everywhere. Open carrying is the same thing. If you want to point out how normal something is, then act normal about it.
I was going to make that same exact point but couldn't figure out how to put it. Well done.
Make them work for it then.
Ah, you're under the impression that to slander a group of poepole would require work on their part.
Nope.
O2
So are you saying they haven't moved their agenda forward at all since the 90s? I think you just blew a huge hole in your own argument.
O2
How much of a part do you think leather chaps and public oral played in moving that agenda forward? The only way I see it helping is people acting normal in direct contrast to those who didn't.
Carrying rifles around in town isn't normal, never has been, and never will be
Wrong again. Hell, kids used to take rifles to school and go hunting afterwards.
Now it appears that even pro-gun folks think of that as some kind of perversion.
O2
Carrying rifles around in town isn't normal, never has been, and never will be. Gays in the 90's told everyone how normal they were and how they were just like everyone else. Then swung their dicks from the tops of parade floats and walked around naked everywhere. Open carrying is the same thing. If you want to point out how normal something is, then act normal about it.
Yep.. normalizing guns means that the media's depiction of crazy gun owners needs to be faced and disputed. People walking down the sidewalk with a rifle on their back is highly unlikely to ever be "normal" throughout most of the US no matter how much you may want it to be.
When average people walking down the street that may have never seen a gun in person in their entire life see a bunch of guys waving flags and holding signs with rifles hanging from their shoulders the first thing that will pop in their heads is the news report of the crazy gun guys on TV the previous day.
Or the alternative is that they could walk through a crowd of people that look just like them and don't fit the media narrative, that's when they then start to think that maybe the news is full of shit.
How much of a part do you think leather chaps and public oral played in moving that agenda forward?
A lot. After all, after being exposed to that kind of fringe, Milo Yiannopoulos seems somewhat normal, n'etc-ce pas?
O2
Wrong again. Hell, kids used to take rifles to school and go hunting afterwards.
Now it appears that even pro-gun folks think of that as some kind of perversion.
O2
Driving a gun somewhere and taking it inside, or leaving it in the car (even in a window gun rack) just isn't the same as walking around town.
I don't think it matters much what we argue here, because there will be people who take paths, at the same time. We're all going through this one way or another. See you on the other side.
Little Dutch
04-24-2018, 13:55
If you think this would have turned out differently if lawful gun owners behaved differently, you are a heck of an optimist. Or have a short memory. The libs will always vote against us. It's what they do. And they will continue to do so for as long as people keep voting for them. They may attempt to placate people with cheap words about how they are on your side, but they are signing away your freedom while they do so.
CoGirl303
04-24-2018, 13:56
Carrying rifles around in town isn't normal, never has been, and never will be. Gays in the 90's told everyone how normal they were and how they were just like everyone else. Then swung their dicks from the tops of parade floats and walked around naked everywhere. Open carrying is the same thing. If you want to point out how normal something is, then act normal about it.
People have been open carrying since firearms were invented.
They carried in to town, around town and in stores, at festivals and fairs and other public gatherings. Cowboys in the old days carried a gun on their hip for all to see everywhere they want. Colonial politicians carried into meetings.
Only lately has it become stigmatized as evil due to the media's demonizing of firearms and crusade to make gun ownership a Satanic rite.
The only thing not normal is the senseless media-driven fear of firearms.
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Do you know how long the "Wild West" lasted? It was a pretty short part of history, and even then not everyone was carrying guns all the time.
Driving a gun somewhere and taking it inside, or leaving it in the car (even in a window gun rack) just isn't the same as walking around town.
Actually I'm talking about walking to school (on a road, with a a gun slung over their shoulder, GASP!), giving it to the principal during school, getting it back at the end of school and walking to wherever they're going to hunt. With a gun. In the open. Visible. For everyone to see. And no one batted an eye.
Not on a rack in a car.
It WAS perfectly normal.
Sounds like this is a completey foreign concept to you.
O2
Even in Arizona it's not that common despite what people think. I used to work there on fairly regular basis mostly in the Phoenix area and have been through AZ a couple times this past year for various reasons and I don't think I saw anyone open carrying at all the last time I was there. As for other trips I would say maybe one or two guys over a week long period? I would hardly say it's normal in a state known as the open carry capitol of the country.
Actually I'm talking about walking to school (on a road, with a a gun slung over their shoulder, GASP!), giving it to the principal during school, getting it back at the end of school and walking to wherever they're going to hunt. With a gun. In the open. Visible. For everyone to see. And no one batted an eye.
Not on a rack or in a car.
It WAS perfectly normal.
Sounds like this is a completey foreign concept to you.
O2
I grew up in Minnesota.. we ran around with our pellet guns and yes, occasionally during deer or pheasant season someone would have a gun in their car or locker at school. It was not normal.. it was a couple times a year at best, normal in my mind would be a weekly or daily occurance, this only happened among a few guys during hunting season.
People have been open carrying since firearms were invented.
They carried in to town, around town and in stores, at festivals and fairs and other public gatherings. Cowboys in the old days carried a gun on their hip for all to see everywhere they want. Colonial politicians carried into meetings.
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It was also common to have a checkpoint on the way into a city or town and have to give up all your firearms before you went in. Different times, different behavior.
.455_Hunter
04-24-2018, 14:18
Yes, we should have been good Rosas and sat in the back of the bus so we were invisible.
Someday you folks will figure out how bad your "let's be invidible" tactics are.
O2
Funny how being professional and not showing our ass resulted in the almost nationwide adoption of shall issue over the past 25 years.
Regardless of the perceived efficacy of open carry protest on both sides, we have to deal with the perception as it is NOW. Before the protest I posted about being upset and wanting to OC as a big middle finger to the City Council... but after thinking about it and some advice from some members here and other friends I decided against it.
We are losing the culture war. Gun owners are being increasingly portrayed as paranoid, violent, uncaring members of a fringe element of society. The media only reports on the negative side of guns.... the fact that the gentleman who dropped the Sutherland Springs, TX shooter (with an AR, I might add) was also dropped from media coverage with incredible speed is evidence of that. There is undoubtedly a narrative being sold, that firearm ownership is dangerous and unusual.
When people see ARs being carried by anyone who isn't LE or MIL, their mind immediately reverts to the last time they encountered that sight. Which, for non-gun owners, as of right now is probably the insane person who just shot up the Waffle House. That is the prevalent coverage of ARs in the media.
The only way to counter that perception is to appear as we are: Normal, well adjusted, productive members of society, that aren't openly carrying an AR next to the farmer's market. There is a time when that might have been normal in Boulder, but it is no longer the case. Take your non-gun friends shooting, show them that it is a wholesome community filled with people who just want to learn and share knowledge. Introduce them to the REAL gun culture, not the one they see in the media.
In order to 'win', we have to change the public's view of us. Since we don't have large media outlets that have a favorable view of us, we have to do it ourselves. Starting with toeing the line of what's widely acceptable NOW in public, and doing individual outreach to friends and acquaintances to change their perception.
[blah-blah]
RblDiver
04-24-2018, 15:56
What could the Camera have said if there were no guns present?
I suspect it would have gone something like:
" "
SuperiorDG
04-24-2018, 16:11
Gun owners are being increasingly portrayed as paranoid, violent, uncaring members of a fringe element of society. [blah-blah]
I've had to tell my girlfriend not to mention to her friends that I carry a gun. Every time she does they tell her to get rid of me or freak out if I'm around. To them carrying a gun equals "nut job" and its getting to be more and more of a problem in our world.
Grant H.
04-24-2018, 17:02
People have been open carrying since firearms were invented.
They carried in to town, around town and in stores, at festivals and fairs and other public gatherings. Cowboys in the old days carried a gun on their hip for all to see everywhere they want. Colonial politicians carried into meetings.
Only lately has it become stigmatized as evil due to the media's demonizing of firearms and crusade to make gun ownership a Satanic rite.
The only thing not normal is the senseless media-driven fear of firearms.
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As Irv pointed out... Open carry of RIFLES, which is what pissed most in boulder off, isn't normal, nor has it ever been. Not even in the wild west. Scabards on horses were where rifles got left.
And as Izzy pointed out, it wasn't uncommon to have to surrender ALL weapons when you entered town.
Follywood's imagination of the wild west isn't all that accurate.
Grant H.
04-24-2018, 17:07
I've had to tell my girlfriend not to mention to her friends that I carry a gun. Every time she does they tell her to get rid of me or freak out if I'm around. To them carrying a gun equals "nut job" and its getting to be more and more of a problem in our world.
I escorted a buddies girlfriend to the door and told her to never return, because she decided to go off on me for owning guns. (Shirt rode up when I was getting the grill ready, and she spotted the grip of my CCW).
He couldn't stop laughing, and sent her a text to tell her he wouldn't be calling ever again.
Apparently he got texts and voicemails for WEEKS afterwards about how I was a horrible, evil, and worthless waste of space... All because I closed the door on her mid-sentence.
I don't really like going down the path of what is "normal" or what people are used to. People can be used to all kinds of things smoking in hospitals, concentration camps, being born into a cult, whatever. I prefer to argue from a stance of Rights, and what is right, but with good solid reasoning and evidence. I think the Founding Fathers are great and did a good job setting our country up, but most people give as much of a shit about the Founding Fathers as they do about Jesus, which is none. Because they said so carries so little weight today. I like to think that the concept of Rights is an idea that is hard to kill. It has to be handled correctly though. We can't just open carry our rights back into place, no matter how angry we are at how ridiculous the opposition acts.
CoGirl303
04-24-2018, 17:55
I thought Denver was the only place in Colorado where open carry wasn't allowed?
I know Castle Rock was at one time included in that but they overturned it.
Since when is Boulder disallowing open carry?
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CoGirl303
04-24-2018, 17:58
Do you know how long the "Wild West" lasted? It was a pretty short part of history, and even then not everyone was carrying guns all the time.
Im not talking about the Wild West. I'm talking about since guns were invented and it goes back further than the Wild West.
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My dad grew up in rural Florida and from the time he was 12, would walk around with the shotgun he and his brother bought with money they made from selling fruits and vegetables at the farmer’s market. He’d walk to go bird and small game hunting. It wasn’t a big deal.
I used to take my pellet rifle all over town. Doubt that would fly now.
BPTactical
04-24-2018, 19:03
With Rights come responsibilities.
While it is perfectly legal to yell "Fire" it is inappropriate to do so without tangible reason.
There is a time and a place.
I view OC in a similar fashion. While it is your right to do so where lawful, it is not necessarily a wise thing to do nor does it project a positive image of firearm owners to the ignorant and uneducated masses.
I recall a former member here who was adamant about his right to OC and did so constantly.
And then had the audacity to whine about Arvada PD stopping him outside of a King Soopers in an assertive manner after a patron called 911 about "a man with a gun."
Dumbass, you brought it on yourself.
Now those here that know me know that I am as adamant about our Rights in person as I am on the board.
But you have to use your head for something besides growing hair.
A little common sense goes a long way, especially in a political venue.
If you dress well, act appropriate and speak appropriately you have a chance to make an impact.
If you put on BDU's, a plate carrier and OC your rifle you are providing the anti crowd the exact image they want to present of firearm owners.
I said it on the steps of the Capitol in 2012: "We don't have to worry about somebody taking our Rights away, because we will give them away."
Boulder Colorado 21 April 2018 case in point.
I escorted a buddies girlfriend to the door and told her to never return, because she decided to go off on me for owning guns. (Shirt rode up when I was getting the grill ready, and she spotted the grip of my CCW).
He couldn't stop laughing, and sent her a text to tell her he wouldn't be calling ever again.
Apparently he got texts and voicemails for WEEKS afterwards about how I was a horrible, evil, and worthless waste of space... All because I closed the door on her mid-sentence.
This is hilarious. Good on ya for not tolerating that disrespect in your own home.
I've had to tell my girlfriend not to mention to her friends that I carry a gun. Every time she does they tell her to get rid of me or freak out if I'm around. To them carrying a gun equals "nut job" and its getting to be more and more of a problem in our world.
Not to mention OPSEC concerns. But, maybe that's an opportunity to teach them about guns and how they can be used responsibly. If they're not willing to give you that courtesy, then they're shitty friends to your GF.
Here are some interesting comments from SOF Robert K. Brown on the Boulder council:
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/interview-lt-col-robert-k-brown-of-soldier-of-fortune/#axzz5DhFrv0uU
I suspect it would have gone something like:
" "
...and you'd be wrong. As I mentioned, no guns were present at the April 19th march at the Capitol years ago, BEFORE the media went all rabid anti-gun. Yet the media STILL went out of their way to make it look like a bunch of cammo-clad folks were the only ones at the protest.
O2
...and you'd be wrong. As I mentioned, no guns were present at the April 19th march at the Capitol years ago, BEFORE the media went all rabid anti-gun. Yet the media STILL went out of their way to make it look like a bunch of cammo-clad folks were the only ones at the protest.
O2
Well, despite the press making fun of your guys in camo the impact in the press was not the nearly the same because Colorado became a shall issue state. In the case of guys open carrying this issue just went from being pushed to an open election to being passed behind closed doors in the quickest way possible.
DenverGP
04-25-2018, 10:28
Well, despite the press making fun of your guys in camo the impact in the press was not the nearly the same because Colorado became a shall issue state. In the case of guys open carrying this issue just went from being pushed to an open election to being passed behind closed doors in the quickest way possible.
Bullshit.... the council was going to do this either way, regardless of what one "friend" member was telling you.
Well, despite the press making fun of your guys in camo the impact in the press was not the nearly the same because Colorado became a shall issue state.
annnnnnd, wrong again. Two points:
Colorado became a shall issue state many, many years after the protest and not from ANYTHING the gun community did. All the letter writing, protests and testifying at the capitol got us absoluetly NOWHERE. For like a decade. Unfortunately the gun community had nothing to do with shall issue.
The only reason Colorado went shall issue is because [then] Sheriff John Anderson of El Paso county started issuing a bazillion permits and the statists in Denver decided they needed to get in on the action. And overnight we got shall issue.
O2
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-25-2018, 15:10
What we need is a rouge sheriff to deputize people from all over the state. Give them legal rights to own stuff. Is that possible? I’ll buy a few acres in their county. Hell, make it a range timeshare....
How about this one:
74521
Where's Sheriff Scotty when we need him?
(It's an oldtimer joke)
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-25-2018, 21:24
So maybe a reserve officer? Do all reserve officers need to have POST training?
I thought Denver was the only place in Colorado where open carry wasn't allowed?
I know Castle Rock was at one time included in that but they overturned it.
Since when is Boulder disallowing open carry?
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Castle Rock was never under a general OC ban. They overturned an OC ban at town properties/public places - parks, buildings, etc.
Some stuff is going down right now, guys. There is an alternate proposal being drafted that may be palatable to all parties involved. Apparently 4 members of the council are on board with this... This has been worked on by the Moms and gun owners. I'm not going to go into fine detail, but most of what it includes is:
-21 AGE LIMIT for Assault Weapon purchase and ownership
-Higher bar for ownership
-CCW
-Club member
-Tax Stamp
-Hunter's ed
-FFL
-Active or retired MIL, LEO, ETC
-Red Flag laws
-Bump stock ban
-Moratorium on additional more restrictive legislation
-Sunset after 20 years
-NO REGISTRATION
I know a lot of you may be in the "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" camp, but if this gets passed we may need to just take a bite of a shit sandwich rather than eat the whole thing.
Thoughts?
I don't like any of that. Is the list for higher bar for ownership mean that one has to satisfy everything on that list, or just one? Either way, not a single item on that list determines that someone isn't a total shitbag.
I don't like any of that. Is the list for higher bar for ownership mean that one has to satisfy everything on that list, or just one? Either way, not a single item on that list determines that someone isn't a total shitbag.
Just one. And you may be right, you may not, but it's something to give the antis to remove registration.
Personally, I'm for this. If something must be done, then let it be at least a little reasonable.
So take a bite of the sandwhich and leave the peanuts (sesame seeds) out and not call it eating the whole thing? This state needs an enema.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-26-2018, 22:35
What about mags?
I don't live there, I don't have 'skin' in the game, I don't know who is negotiating and how much power they have.
I say that you support getting as much saved as you can with the minimum number of votes. That might not be popular among some. I understand the no-not anything position, because as soon as you make this deal, they will be back.
They always will be back, but I'd rather have something than nothing.
To me, the things in order you want to avoid are
Out-right ban
Registration
Mag limits
I don't know where the whole AWB thing will end up at after SCOTUS decides. Rational readers of precedent and logic would say that AWBs would be struck down, probably with the court we have- yes if Kennedy or a lib is replaced. If AWBs stand, we might be begging for a baby NFA or CCW type 'license' to keep our stuff.
I think that things like this are elitist and a bit classist when it comes to mandating resources to keep our basic rights. But that is reality. We have had too many sh!t heads act out with guns- and blame and rationale can be laid in a lot of places outside of gun ownership- but we live in democracies at the local level. If their push to do 'something' can be confined to do the least amount of damage- all the better.
If you can leave the state mag level BS and have the deal above- that would be an improvement over the current BS.
BTW- the moratorium is a dead fish offer- it kind of stinks. You can't bind future council decisions, as far as I understand. You can put it in the law, but it would be like saying that no one can sue to try to get this overturned.
Especially if it leaves mags out of it, it is this is like being molested under your clothes versus raped in the other version. If it pushes people to get their CCW, mores the better.
Be wary of people outside of Boulder that might trash the deal. Really easy to do when your crap isn't on the line.
Wasn't that mass murderer in CA a cop? (not to rag on cops), but I still haven't found a mass shooter or murderer that was an NRA member.
If there is ever a "mass" shooting in Boulder while this is in effect, it should immediately be repealed since it's clearly not working and is instead an unnecessary burden on the rights of the people.
Great-Kazoo
04-26-2018, 22:39
Why do people who have serious out of state money (moms demand strip club Action) have any say or right to be at anyone's table, except their own.? Also what qualifications does a group of never been around guns except for a photo op bring to the table.
What about mags?
There is nothing in the proposal restricting magazine size in any way. It doesn't even appear in the document outside of the definition of "Assault Weapon".
Be wary of people outside of Boulder that might trash the deal. Really easy to do when your crap isn't on the line.
This is one thing I am worried about. Things are very fragile right now after the rally completely backfired.
Why do people who have serious out of state money (moms demand strip club Action) have any say or right to be at anyone's table, except their own.?
I think their comments about non-Boulder residents speaking at the hearing are extremely hypocritical, and would be hilarious if people didn't eat that shit up.
Great-Kazoo
04-26-2018, 22:59
What about mags?
I don't live there, I don't have 'skin' in the game, I don't know who is negotiating and how much power they have.
I say that you support getting as much saved as you can with the minimum number of votes. That might not be popular among some. I understand the no-not anything position, because as soon as you make this deal, they will be back.
They always will be back, but I'd rather have something than nothing.
To me, the things in order you want to avoid are
Out-right ban
Registration
Mag limits
I don't know where the whole AWB thing will end up at after SCOTUS decides. Rational readers of precedent and logic would say that AWBs would be struck down, probably with the court we have- yes if Kennedy or a lib is replaced. If AWBs stand, we might be begging for a baby NFA or CCW type 'license' to keep our stuff.
I think that things like this are elitist and a bit classist when it comes to mandating resources to keep our basic rights. But that is reality. We have had too many sh!t heads act out with guns- and blame and rationale can be laid in a lot of places outside of gun ownership- but we live in democracies at the local level. If their push to do 'something' can be confined to do the least amount of damage- all the better.
If you can leave the state mag level BS and have the deal above- that would be an improvement over the current BS.
BTW- the moratorium is a dead fish offer- it kind of stinks. You can't bind future council decisions, as far as I understand. You can put it in the law, but it would be like saying that no one can sue to try to get this overturned.
Especially if it leaves mags out of it, it is this is like being molested under your clothes versus raped in the other version. If it pushes people to get their CCW, mores the better.
Be wary of people outside of Boulder that might trash the deal. Really easy to do when your crap isn't on the line.
Wasn't that mass murderer in CA a cop? (not to rag on cops), but I still haven't found a mass shooter or murderer that was an NRA member.
If you believe or think the jackal is content to walk away from the carcass with it only 1/2 eaten, you're fooling yourself. This isn't about "concessions" from the anti-gun side.
This is part of what i call the Anti-gun 5 yr plan. Or as others call it Death by 1000 cuts.
Sure we'll agree to these modest proposals, now. You get this Kennedy or Polis as .gov. What Boulder will sign off (wink, wink) on is merely the beginning
.455_Hunter
04-27-2018, 07:26
Are those people brokering the "deal" from the 2A side also agreeing not to sue based on pre-emption?
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 07:29
Shall not be infringed, will not comply.
What do people not understand, this is not a compromise, the left is not giving up anything, they gain everything and the 2nd is infringed yet again under the myth of "compromise"
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 07:36
If you believe or think the jackal is content to walk away from the carcass with it only 1/2 eaten, you're fooling yourself. This isn't about "concessions" from the anti-gun side.
This is part of what i call the Anti-gun 5 yr plan. Or as others call it Death by 1000 cuts.
Sure we'll agree to these modest proposals, now. You get this Kennedy or Polis as .gov. What Boulder will sign off (wink, wink) on is merely the beginning
YAA!!!!!! Rah-rah. I just waved an American flag and light of a party popper.
Now back to reality playing out in real time.
You want to lose it all or only some. This is democracy (ETA: at the local level). You get what you can get with 50%+1 vote. What you say is exactly true, but this isn't like the national game where you have two sides to play against each other- and we hold the majority. This is 100% against us and they could vote in CA/NJ/NY level of stupidity if they wanted to.
That would show them!!!! ???? You willing to live under the same restrictions as Boulder if the 'deal' doesn't pass? I'd love to have this deal in Denver, better than what we have.
Elections have consequences. The reps we have will vote the way they want. We could all wish it wasn't this way, but this is reality. Until you get a SCOTUS decision that lays down sharp lines, keep as much as you can as long as you can. Someone else can be the test case. Northbridgelakepark or whatever in Chicago is a great one.
I really think there isn't a deal. I don't know why they would make one. When Bloomberg's people hear about it, they will come down HARD on anyone not toeing the line. Happened in Denver when there was a consensus on council for the smallest of a moderation on the 15 round confiscation.
You realize that Bloomberg's people would see this as a huge victory for the gun rights side?
Fondled or raped?
I'm all about the foreplay.
I really think there isn't a deal. I don't know why they would make one. When Bloomberg's people hear about it, they will come down HARD on anyone not toeing the line. Happened in Denver when there was a consensus on council for the smallest of a moderation on the 15 round confiscation.
You realize that Bloomberg's people would see this as a huge victory for the gun rights side?
This deal is anything but certain at this point.
Are those people brokering the "deal" from the 2A side also agreeing not to sue based on pre-emption?
I'm not sure.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 08:46
Everyone is always willing to martyr someone else.
Anyone have any head count on the Colorado Supreme Court? Facts, precedent, the law, and logic are all good. You have a majority Progressive block on the court and they'll vote they way their told.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 10:10
YAA!!!!!! Rah-rah. I just waved an American flag and light of a party popper.
Now back to reality playing out in real time.
You want to lose it all or only some.
Back to reality ??? Looks like it's time to change your board name to I'll compromise .
Shall not be infringed
Is this really a tenable option at this point? Where we are now, we could lose everything. Honestly, damage control needs to be ongoing until the Supreme Court gets off their ass and makes a ruling.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 10:40
Back to reality ??? Looks like it's time to change your board name to I'll compromise .
Yea, yea. So original. You have a bad deal and a worse deal.
https://youtu.be/BNjcuZ-LiSY
Your plan is for someone else to take the worse deal. Great plan. You're screaming 'or death' for the guy in line in front of you. How brave and noble. I forgot, what's the song and poem they wrote about that...
There is no compromise. There are no two sides on that council. That the law could go from what it was to what was mentioned with out any real power is kind of amazing. In Boulder of all places.
The RMGO mental-midget, all-or-nothing attitude is really self defeating.
I know this is the interwebs and people spout off absolutist positions and posture to make themselves feel big and good, but sweet Jesus- when will our community understand the nature of local politics. Don't want this position, elect different people. Crap and one hand and wishes in the other...
But sure, let's martyr someone else..
2:32
https://youtu.be/tRJlo2WRDbw?t=2m32s
ETA: The title of this thread is 'AR15 Ban' and it could be "Get a CCW". Death or Cake.
Should we have said no to CCW until we got constitutional carry?
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 10:42
Is this really a tenable option at this point? Where we are now, we could lose everything. Honestly, damage control needs to be ongoing until the Supreme Court gets off their ass and makes a ruling.
Ding, ding, ding. Winner of the clear vision sweepstakes.
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 10:44
Is this really a tenable option at this point? Where we are now, we could lose everything. Honestly, damage control needs to be ongoing until the Supreme Court gets off their ass and makes a ruling.
It is the only option.
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 10:47
Yea, yea. So original. You have a bad deal and a worse deal.
https://youtu.be/BNjcuZ-LiSY
Your plan is for someone else to take the worse deal. Great plan. You're screaming 'or death' for the guy in line in front of you. How brave and noble. I forgot, what's the song and poem they wrote about that...
There is no compromise. There are no two sides on that council. That the law could go from what it was to what was mentioned with out any real power is kind of amazing. In Boulder of all places.
The RMGO mental-midget, all-or-nothing attitude is really self defeating.
I know this is the interwebs and people spout off absolutist positions and posture to make themselves feel big and good, but sweet Jesus- when will our community understand the nature of local politics. Don't want this position, elect different people. Crap and one hand and wishes in the other...
But sure, let's martyr someone else..
2:32
https://youtu.be/tRJlo2WRDbw?t=2m32s
ETA: The title of this thread is 'AR15 Ban' and it could be "Get a CCW". Death or Cake.
Should we have said no to CCW until we got constitutional carry?
CCW law was a gain, not a loss.
It is the only option.
So you would rather have our rights greatly infringed, rather than slightly infringed?
You'd rather accelerate the loss of our rights, than slow it?
There is no Option C: Not infringe. They're going to infringe. It's a question of how much.
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 11:04
So you would rather have our rights greatly infringed, rather than slightly infringed?
You'd rather accelerate the loss of our rights, than slow it?
There is no Option C: Not infringe. They're going to infringe. It's a question of how much.
I am not going to capitulate and give up my rights, no matter what they think they can get away with.
I refuse to play by their rules, this is not a game.
I am not going to capitulate and give up my rights, no matter what they think they can get away with.
I refuse to play by their rules, this is not a game.
Well, you don't have to play at all, because you don't live here. When it comes to Evans, you can play hardball. And it may work.... but it won't work in Boulder.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 11:29
CCW law was a gain, not a loss.
In some ways, but we didn't get everything we wanted, isn't that giving in? We are being infringed. What if they pass the worse bill and then work to get the new bill- would that be a win or loss?
I am not going to capitulate and give up my rights, no matter what they think they can get away with.
I refuse to play by their rules, this is not a game.
It is a game for you. You have about as much skin in the game as a mohel who can't make the cut.
I actually don't even know what your position is? You seem to want option C in a binary choice. You're playing Russian Roulette with a full cylinder- but with someone elses head. You're like the drunk friend that keeps getting in fights in bars and I end up getting punched pulling you back. I can do this all day long.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 12:35
The question is. What did Boulder offer to give up for their part?
The question is. What did Boulder offer to give up for their part?
No registration and no mag limits, for one.
No registration and no mag limits, for one.
So the equivalent of "If you let us punch you in the mouth, we won't kick you in the nuts and break your fingers".
...until we feel like it again.
The only way this could be even palatable is if a violation was at MOST a petty offense, punishable with a fine of no more than $10.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 13:02
No registration and no mag limits, for one.
So they're sticking to state 15 rd limit. Whew...they sure did compromise with us didn't they.
Question is. Outside the gullible , a few members here, east and west coast transplants. WTF is going to register a firearm at the county level... Let alone register any gun at all.
So the equivalent of "If you let us punch you in the mouth, we won't kick you in the nuts and break your fingers".
I like my fingers, I need them to shoot.
So they're sticking to state 15 rd limit. Whew...they sure did compromise with us didn't they.
Question is. Outside the gullible , a few members here, east and west coast transplants. WTF is going to register a firearm at the county level... Let alone register any gun at all.
Well, considering they were going to go to 10, I'd say that's somewhat of a W.
I was going to move out of the city before registering any of my firearms, it's Boulder municipality, not Boulder County.
Do you have any NFA items?
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 13:42
So they're sticking to state 15 rd limit. Whew...that sure did compromise with us didn't they. Question is. Outside the gullible , a few members here, east and west coast transplants. WTF is going to register a firearm at the county level... Let alone register any gun at all.
I still can't figure out what your point is? It seems that unless Boulder starts handing out bandoliers of ammo, you won't be happy.
Yes the deal sucks, the other one sucks more. So you have these people voting and someone has done some work to get a winning a majority to move. The council has already voted 100% for the older version.
You seem to think that this is a compromise. It isn't. Compromise involves two parties of relative levels of power that have something to trade to reach a relative mutually optimal acceptable solution. That isn't where we are. The council doesn't have to listen to us at all. They actually don't have to do anything to mitigate the old version. Someone has gone in with there with no bargaining power and been able to use old school persuasion, in lieu of leverage, to change people's mind. You'd label them a traitor. What they got, if there is an actual 'got' here, is the political equivalent of Daniel fending off the lions and then for lunch feeding of the multitudes with a couple of loaves and a fish- and you're sitting there bitching that there isn't an dessert and we throw him back to the lions.
I'm guessing your way would be to walk in and tell the council its your right and F U.
Bloomberg prays for people with that kind of mentality.
Will1776
04-27-2018, 13:44
I like my fingers, I need them to shoot.
Well, considering they were going to go to 10, I'd say that's somewhat of a W.
I was going to move out of the city before registering any of my firearms, it's Boulder municipality, not Boulder County.
Do you have any NFA items?
I'd rather have access to ARs than 10+ round mags. But still good they're throwing out the 10 round limit
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 13:50
LOL, you girls might as well just register with your betters now.
I'd rather have access to ARs than 10+ round mags. But still good they're throwing out the 10 round limit
In the original version, possession of an unregistered AR would be illegal. This is by far and away a better deal.
LOL, you girls might as well just register with your betters now.
That's the point of this alternative path, no one has to register.
Like.... what the hell. There's a way out of this where Boulder gun owners remain relatively unscathed... and you're shitting all over it?
The density in this thread rivals a neutron star.
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 13:58
In the original version, possession of an unregistered AR would be illegal. This is by far and away a better deal.
That's the point of this alternative path, no one has to register.
Like.... what the hell. There's a way out of this where Boulder gun owners remain relatively unscathed... and you're shitting all over it?
The density in this thread rivals a neutron star.
You are making a deal with the devil, haven't you been paying attention, they will not be satisfied until all guns are outlawed and all gun owners are outlaws.
I have been involved in the fight for gun rights for far too long, and have seen their tactics, and every time gun owners capitulate to their "compromise" they get screwed.
But hey, I know it has never worked before but why not try it again, it just wasn't done right before
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 14:09
Or what?
Deal with the devil? I'd rather spend time in purgatory than hell.
I don't know why you call it a compromise. People have gotten them to reduce the list of bad things. Until you get a council with a majority of people that respect the 2A, this is what you get.
For some reason people would rather have the worse version and something bitch about. At no cost to them.
The whole conversation is a bit silly.
I never thought I'd see virtue-signaling on our side.
thedave1164
04-27-2018, 14:17
SMH
Good luck with that
You should march outside their homes, and sue for violation of your rights, get creative.
Go on the offensive instead of playing defense all the time.
Run Carr out of town on a rail, you know there is stuff in his past that even the Boulder City council couldn't stomach.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 14:19
Do you have any NFA items?
What has what i own have anything to do with a leftist gun grabbing county, who fucked gun owners over. Yeah it's a victory. if you're content they used lube before sticking up the proverbial keyster. Instead of doing us dry.
Look it's clear we're not going to agree on what compromise is, or how happy some of you are they didn't make you register guns. Or was that Just the AR style of firearm?
Or was that Just the AR style of firearm?
Just "Assault Weapons", so yes ARs, AKs, etc.
Look it's clear we're not going to agree on what compromise is, or how happy some of you are they didn't make you register guns.
At this point, I'll take what I can get. One thing that we can both agree on is that it sucks that they are proposing something in the first place.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/167924-California-refugee-checking-in
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/167924-California-refugee-checking-in
Yes, I am indeed that guy. And your point?
hurley842002
04-27-2018, 15:29
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/167924-California-refugee-checking-inTransplants claiming to be pro 2a?
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-27-2018, 15:31
Yes, I am indeed that guy. And your point?
You've been outed as a Cali spy!!!! You brought this hex upon our house.
Muuuuuhaaahaaaahaaaa.
Yes, I am indeed that guy. And your point?
Just that when I read through this thread, I'm not feeling this very much.
I moved to Colorado for school 8 years ago and never looked back at California. Don't worry, I am not trying to bring anything remotely related to California here to CO.
I can see your intentions are good, but I'm sure that was the same thing of those that rolled over in California as well.
Transplants claiming to be pro 2a?
I have no doubt that boxy is pro 2A. He might be right about what he's proposing as well. But it feels like rolling over too easy. I'm not going to take up much space in this thread because it seems like we tend to lose no matter which path we take.
No hard feelings boxy.
Transplants claiming to be pro 2a?
You can think of me however you want.
You've been outed as a Cali spy!!!! You brought this hex upon our house.
Muuuuuhaaahaaaahaaaa.
Busted!! Now I have to go Californicate another state.... maybe Idaho next....
Just that when I read through this thread, I'm not feeling this very much.
I can see your intentions are good, but I'm sure that was the same thing of those that rolled over in California as well.
What is it that you are not feeling? I think what I am trying to do here is mitigate as much damage as possible.
I have no doubt that boxy is pro 2A. He might be right about what he's proposing as well. But it feels like rolling over too easy. I'm not going to take up much space in this thread because it seems like we tend to lose no matter which path we take.
No hard feelings boxy.
No hard feelings at all, brother. We are all here for the same reason, because we are passionate about firearms and our rights. I'm sure this conversation would go differently over a beer - lots of stuff gets lost online.
Also, to be clear, this is not my proposal. I am just the messenger here.
I'm definitely busting your balls, just not maliciously.
Busted!! Now I have to go Californicate another state.... maybe Idaho next....
Don't forget to bring IKEA with you!!!
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 16:56
You can think of me however you want.
Busted!! Now I have to go Californicate another state.... maybe Idaho next....
Too Late your fellow CA locust are screwing Boise big time.
What you find reasonable as a former CA resident, is what we've been trying to fend off for some time. It's not reasonable, it's not in any gun owners interest to compromise with the anti gun faction.
Too Late your fellow CA locust are screwing Boise big time.
What's going on in Boise?
What you find reasonable as a former CA resident
I don't think any of what Boulder is proposing is reasonable. Like I said, I'm trying to mitigate harm here.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 19:55
What's going on in Boise?
I don't think any of what Boulder is proposing is reasonable. Like I said, I'm trying to mitigate harm here.
Right.
You come from a state that has 10 day waiting periods, bgc (soon) and permits for purchasing ammo, NO Shall issue (statewide) CCW NO pre 94 semi autos, No guns that don't pass the CADOJ requirements. CA's DOJ roster of banned firearms is longer than what most gun dist. carry. Bullet buttons and the originally approved mags purchased / mfg before 9/94 no longer grandfathered.
On & On
So for you to say the harm is mitigated, is what we see as another step towards CA's draconian gun restrictions. If not worse.
As for Boise, homes we looked at while there 6 months ago, listed for $250K have been resold 1-2x by CA transplants, now listed in the low $400's.
My cousin with a construction co. has seen the CA mentality trying to change even simple things like how the city deals with Illegals and homeless. MOTS repressive, progressive mentality trying to turn that city and some of the state in to the shithole CA is.
Do you have any NFA items?
Doing an informal survey?
Doing an informal survey?
No, was just curious on his thoughts on the NFA and the registration involved with that. But I'm pretty sure I know the answer.
You come from a state that has...
Look man, I'm not sure what it will take to convince you that I don't want any of that here. I didn't even get into firearms until I moved here, and that was only in the last year and a half. In the meantime, let's just see what comes down the pipe this weekend.
spqrzilla
04-27-2018, 23:29
boxy, there is no such "deal". Not least because Boulder can't enforce any of that nonsense outside of their jurisdiction. So for example, a ban on purchase under 21 is just utterly stupid since its not a far drive to the county line and last time I checked they let 18-20 year old drive cars.
Why are you here trying to pass off this load of horse manure?
Why are you here trying to pass off this load of horse manure?
It's relevant information to the topic at hand. It's completely ok to form your own opinion on it.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 23:48
Why are you here trying to pass off this load of horse manure?
Why? it's Common Sense.
Great-Kazoo
04-27-2018, 23:57
It's relevant information to the topic at hand. It's completely ok to form your own opinion on it.
It's ok for everyone to form their own opinion. You have your's, others see it differently. I'm willing to see how it plays out, with bolder doing this as a symbolic political move. Rather than an actual stance that would have others, like their mindset, see one cannot stop evil.
spqrzilla
04-28-2018, 17:24
It's relevant information to the topic at hand. It's completely ok to form your own opinion on it.
I assure you, I have.
The meeting that was scheduled for today didn't happen. The Moms refused to meet with the council and the gentleman who was writing this alternate proposal on the grounds of "He's not qualified enough to meet with us". I wonder if the higher ups got wind of the progress we were making and stamped out any inclination of cooperation. Gotta have their gun owner scalps.
One council member is voting no on the ordinance. I guess we go on the offensive from here. I won't be able to make the meeting this week, but we need bodies there. Write the Council, etc.
I will unashamedly admit that I was wrong here. There is no reasoning with these people.
Great-Kazoo
04-29-2018, 15:43
I will unashamedly admit that I was wrong here. There is no reasoning with these people.
Bienvenido Calirodo
Well.. despite the council meeting docket saying there would be no public input at this meeting there was a half hour public session at the beginning of the meeting where you could have two minutes to speak about any city issue you would like. The moms were there and I don’t think there was a single pro gun speaker. I was under the belief there would be no speakers and had no idea there was a list to sign up anywhere.
Anyway.. the council is going deeper and has even decided to not give LEOs any kind of expemption on personal firearms.. We’ll see what kind of response that gets from the police dept behind the scenes. They pretty much got rid of all the exemptions. The compromise that was brought up recently in this thread was mentioned in very brief passing and not given any serious discussion in any way.
Nagel is strictly against any kind of registration, Young is also weary of registration, Carlisle and Grano want a complete ban on possession, all guns out of the city “just like Deerfield”, I believe Jones is also in this camp, the rest feel like they need to do something even though they know it will only be symbolic.
I had to leave at 10:00 so I didn’t make it to the end.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-2018, 00:27
Hmm, so this is what the French Revolution looked like.
ETA: If they end up with the worst versions, I really wonder what Denver will do for the next hoplophobic, virtue signaling push.
.455_Hunter
05-02-2018, 00:55
Daily Camera summary...
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31847523/boulder-approves-ban-sale-possession-assault-weapons
Not sure how this version compares in totality to the original.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-2018, 01:15
So, you have to have a coupon for the gun? The title says possession would be illegal- with out the paper?
I think the biggest thing is that 10 round magazines hits rifles, but it also hits handguns. That always gets overlooked.
Basically, the law makes a criminal out of everyone that owns a semi-auto handgun. And since these are always sold as AWB and bump stock bans, most people don't realize it means them too.
ETA: I really think that the issue of handguns and magazines by making thousands of people who don't own EBRs into criminals might resonate.
kidicarus13
05-02-2018, 06:13
"They'd have to get rid of magazines with the capacity to hold 10 or more rounds by Dec. 31."
Is that a typo? 10rd mags = illegal?! Who makes 9rd mags?
It would seem that pistol mags capable of holding more than 15 rounds are being banned now, as well.
The camera article is wrong they got rid of the Leo and the military exemption for personal Firearms. Leos and Military are only allowed to have firearms for official Duty. Carlisle even questioned why the police need AR15s anyway and suggested that maybe they should not have them anymore.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Great-Kazoo
05-02-2018, 07:28
So, you have to have a coupon for the gun? The title says possession would be illegal- with out the paper?
.
They forget to mention those coupons come are yellow colored stars.
It would seem that pistol mags capable of holding more than 15 rounds are being banned now, as well.
Umm yeah. greater than 15 rd mags have been banned from being sold OTC as well as with guns person-person, since 7/13
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-2018, 07:52
Take the focus off of the AWB and towards the mag ban- which isn't like the state ban that had grandfathering. That is a confiscation with out compensation- which supposedly is a big issue. The other part, like I said, is that the focus is on AW, not on hand guns. Every single owner of a non-revolver handgun becomes a criminal through inaction.
The gun grabbers won't care- they like that. Middle of the road or wavering people see the inherent injustice of something like that. I don't know what you can rally a majority to change the law to. At least grandfathering or something.
So you get to keep them with the coupons or not?
The law in the current form? The LEOs should show up at councilpersons offices with body armor and gear, drop it on their desks and tell them to have fun playing gun grabbing NAZI. A tough to enforce law, that puts LEOs in harm's way and disarms them at the same time. Something for everyone....
Their claim is that it is not confiscation without compensation because you would have time to sell your items or get them out of the city so in their minds there is no loss.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-2018, 08:24
Their claim is that it is not confiscation without compensation because you would have time to sell your items or get them out of the city so in their minds there is no loss.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
That is like saying the Holocaust was the Jew’s fault because they didn’t leave when they could.
You can’t sell your 15+ round mags in state, you have to sell them out of state.
Seriously, I think the best tack to take is how many people will be made criminals through in action? That isn’t something ‘symbolic’. That is fines and jail time for real law-abiding citizens.
How may people own guns, how many have semi-auto hand guns? I have to think that you are talking thousands of people. 50% gun ownership? 10-25% of the population affected?
Throw it off the rails for that.
They forget to mention those coupons come are yellow colored stars.
Don't forget the various colored triangles as well...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge#Single_triangles
#16670, a legacy to live up to.
CoGirl303
05-02-2018, 08:42
spineless, gutless libtard cowards is all these council members are.
Residents of Boulder...do not comply. fuck these people and their unconstitutional law.
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SuperiorDG
05-02-2018, 08:52
How does this apply to non-residents of Boulder when traveling thought the city? I'm I required to surrender my CCW and its 15rd mag?
.455_Hunter
05-02-2018, 08:58
How does this apply to non-residents of Boulder when traveling thought the city? I'm I required to surrender my CCW and its 15rd mag?
I would suspect the non-resident exemptions for possession in vehicle or under CC handgun permit are retained in this current version. Even Carr agreed those could not be circumvented by local law.
Predicted compliance level: 0%
Cue the lawyers in 3...2..1...
DenverGP
05-02-2018, 10:10
And for all the talk of some supposedly reasonable council members:
The Boulder City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to advance a ban on the sale and possession of assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines in the city.
This was a done deal, with or without the open-carry at the rally, etc.
DenverGP
05-02-2018, 10:14
A quote from one of the gun-grabbing council members:
Compromise in itself is not a virtue,"
Looks like the future of Boulder is looking a lot like Canon City with all the criminals they're about to make.
.455_Hunter
05-02-2018, 10:26
The ordnance is not law yet, and more ammedments will be considered at follow-up meeting. This MAY be why there was unanimous approval to move forward, as it is not yet the "final" vote, and all council members are looking to do "something" at a minimum. Just a thought on the procedural progression. Who knows if there will be any NO votes at final reading.
Can someone ask the council members to list all of the criminal events in Boulder that make them feel this change in necessary?
kidicarus13
05-02-2018, 11:19
Can someone ask the council members to list all of the criminal events in Boulder that make them feel this change in necessary?Does not need to have occurred in Boulder, council thinks (incorrectly) they can prevent events like Newtown, Columbine and Parkland through legislation before they occur in Boulder.
CoGirl303
05-02-2018, 11:21
Can someone ask the council members to list all of the criminal events in Boulder that make them feel this change in necessary?
Liberal comprehension of common sense = Error 404: Combination NOT found nor possible.
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UrbanWolf
05-02-2018, 12:11
Does not need to have occurred in Boulder, council thinks (incorrectly) they can prevent events like Newtown, Columbine and Parkland through legislation before they occur in Boulder.
Almost like they know their heavily liberal population has mental disorder.
At least the police and military are not grouped into a special class that are above the law.
BPTactical
05-02-2018, 13:44
Predicted compliance level: 0%
Cue the lawyers in 3...2..1...
^^^^
Like
Will1776
05-02-2018, 14:34
Looks like Boulder needs to pull a Battle of Athens.
Where can we find the current text of it?
.455_Hunter
05-02-2018, 14:54
Remember, everybody needs to support the legal challenge with $$$. If Boulder is permitted to enforce this ordnance, then most, if not all, of the liberal majority city councils in the various home rule municipalities (>100 K population and/or town older than 1876) will quickly follow with their own versions.
sbgixxer
05-02-2018, 16:11
I keep hearing the, "City of Boulder", will these lib CA laws be imposed on everyone in Boulder county or just the city? I wrote Boulder off as soon as I moved here 10 yrs ago. It was the CA of CO that I was trying to leave behind but I loved the area so I moved near but unfortunately (legislatively speaking) am still in Boulder county. Might be time to move. Some of us just want to be left alone... but that long arm just keeps reaching.
Grant H.
05-02-2018, 16:15
I keep hearing the, "City of Boulder", will these lib CA laws be imposed on everyone in Boulder county or just the city? I wrote Boulder off as soon as I moved here 10 yrs ago. It was the CA of CO that I was trying to leave behind but I loved the area so I moved near but unfortunately (legislatively speaking) am still in Boulder county. Might be time to move. Some of us just want to be left alone... but that long arm just keeps reaching.
Thankfully Boulder City Council can only make these rules for Boulder City. Not unincorporated Boulder County, or other cities... (Saves some of my family from their stupidity on power as well as guns...)
sbgixxer
05-02-2018, 16:27
Good to hear. Boulderites might comply but the further out you get, the less likely that is to be true.
.455_Hunter
05-02-2018, 17:12
The key for us county residents is still being legal to pass through Boulder with our lawfully owned property without issue. I BELIEVE this is still the case.
68Charger
05-02-2018, 18:48
Is there a recall procedure established for city council members?
They said it couldn't be done to the state legislature weenies, but some of them are gone.
Is there a recall procedure established for city council members?
They said it couldn't be done to the state legislature weenies, but some of them are gone.
Not that I know of but... there are roughly 108k residents in Boulder of which 85-90k are voting age with a close to 90% turnout rate in most of the city neighborhoods (based on Boulder City voter results from last election). Sam Weaver received the most votes of any council member at 6,700 odd votes, which means 70 some thousand people don’t bother to vote for anyone on the city council. If gun owners turned out in the next election and voted nothing but non incumbents the current city council could easily be voted out in the next two election cycles.
Not that I know of but... there are roughly 108k residents in Boulder of which 85-90k are voting age with a close to 90% turnout rate in most of the city neighborhoods (based on Boulder City voter results from last election). Sam Weaver received the most votes of any council member at 6,700 odd votes, which means 70 some thousand people don’t bother to vote for anyone on the city council. If gun owners turned out in the next election and voted nothing but non incumbents the current city council could easily be voted out in the next two election cycles.
Give them hell boys.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-2018, 23:33
Losing campaign cash is second only to losing elections as leverage for these people.
Losing campaign cash is second only to losing elections as leverage for these people.
Yeah, butt mommy Bloomie just bought them off for the next decade. Did I say buy? I meant legally funded their campaigns.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-03-2018, 10:57
Then it is elections...
.455_Hunter
05-08-2018, 22:22
Take your blood pressure medication.
74671
Some highlights:
1. Added recitals clarifying the council’s intent;
2. Added language to exclude rim-fire rifles and ammunition;
3. Added a definition of “pistol grip;”
4. Clarified which pistols are included as assault weapons;
5. Added language referencing shotguns to the definition of assault weapon;
6. Limited the exemption for public safety officers and military to weapons necessary for their duties;
7. Added an exemption for individuals covered by the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act;
8. Deleted an exemption for competitive shooters; Item 3H-Assault Weapons Ban
9. Raised the age for possession of any firearm to 21;
10. Amended the definition of carrying case to include a holster for a pistol;
11. Created a certification system and eliminated a proposed registration system for gun owners to prove that they owned a weapon prior to the effective date of the ban;
12. Allowed for compliance with the assault weapon and large magazine ban by December 31, 2018; and
13. Allowed for compliance with the multi-burst trigger activator ban by thirty days after the effective date.
Will1776
05-09-2018, 08:14
I hope other 20 year olds like myself tell Boulder to piss off
Predictions:
Compliance level will be ZERO
Lawsuit will be filed about 7 seconds after this becomes law, with a preliminary injunction to prevent its implementation
Lawyers will make a shit ton of money, and the city will spend a shit ton of taxpayer dollars defending the excremental explosion.
If it's overturned, there will be no repercussions for the council members, if not, there will be no repercussions for the council members
Life will go on. If it is upheld, law abiding gun owners will have to make a choice to remain law abiding or not.
Question: anyone know where/how to find old ordinances the city passed and repealed? I tried to search for late 1800s early 1900s discriminatory ordinances but could find nothing. Only 1984? revision on. Almost like all the old info was burried and erased.
Question: anyone know where/how to find old ordinances the city passed and repealed? I tried to search for late 1800s early 1900s discriminatory ordinances but could find nothing. Only 1984? revision on. Almost like all the old info was burried and erased.
Something that old is going to probably be a paper only request that you will have to make directly with the city, doubt they have all of that in searchable electronic form.
Here is info on making information requests:
https://bouldercolorado.gov/central-records/document-archive
https://www-static.bouldercolorado.gov/docs/ACCESS_TO_PUBLIC_RECORDS_POLICY_AND_PROCEDURES_(re v._Jun_2014)-1-201406171130.pdf
CORA:
http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/info_center/files/CORA_Act.pdf
Laws and legislation:
https://bouldercolorado.gov/city-council/laws-and-legislation
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-09-2018, 18:06
I think the best public strategy going forward is to not talk about the AWB, but on the mag ban, which effectively makes thousands of handgun owners into criminals overnight. Point out that the law is a lie, it isn't going after the guns used at Parkland, it is going after the guns in your house, that you have had for years. It is going after the guns that people carry everyday for self defense. An the real kicker is that by doing nothing, you can become a criminal overnight and be subject to fines and prison time.
Is the possession thing new? You couldn't buy a rifle under 18 and a handgun under 21, but someone could gift you one?
Basically, everyone that has a semi-auto handgun is put in legal jeopardy by this law. It isn't a AWB or a bumpstock ban- it is handgun confiscation. That is the effect.
contractx
05-09-2018, 20:22
Take your blood pressure medication.
74671
Where did you find the 3rd reading, I searched the city council site but wouldn't find any updated documents? Just the 2nd hearing video and PDF.
.455_Hunter
05-10-2018, 00:25
Where did you find the 3rd reading, I searched the city council site but wouldn't find any updated documents? Just the 2nd hearing video and PDF.
It was distributed by the Boulder Rifle Club.
thedave1164
05-15-2018, 18:20
Another meeting tonight, final reading and vote
I almost sure it will pass :(
.455_Hunter
05-15-2018, 18:54
Another meeting tonight, final reading and vote
I almost sure it will pass :(
Then the fun starts, both legally with injunctions/lawsuits, and the virus spreading to a city council near you...
Great-Kazoo
05-15-2018, 19:20
Then the fun starts, both legally with injunctions/lawsuits, and the virus spreading to a city council near you...
Virus.. More like a swarm of locust who decimate an area, before moving on.
The ban just passed unanimously..
BPTactical
05-15-2018, 22:09
Boulder went
https://youtu.be/oAKG-kbKeIo
Enjoy the lawsuits assholes.
I don’t know that there’s enough popcorn in this state for what’s gonna go down...
hurley842002
05-16-2018, 05:30
what’s gonna go down...
And that would be?
What's the full scope of what passed . . . sounds like there were some changes? If you already own an "assault weapon" then you can keep it, if you get a certificate of prior ownership, but you can't buy or possess new ones? Guessing there will be a huge run on buying ARs and lowers before it goes into effect just to give the middle finger.
I would expect immediate legal challenges and a long, expensive string of court battles . . . along with zero compliance. Kind of a stupid battle for the city council to wade into given the enforceability and the costs they will incur.
CoGirl303
05-16-2018, 07:22
apparently this ban also includes semi-auto .22 rifles. these people done lost their damn minds.
https://www.reddit.com/r/boulder/comments/8bzowa/boulder_gun_ban_would_extend_to_22_caliber_rifles/
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.455_Hunter
05-16-2018, 07:33
apparently this ban also includes semi-auto .22 rifles. these people done lost their damn minds.
https://www.reddit.com/r/boulder/comments/8bzowa/boulder_gun_ban_would_extend_to_22_caliber_rifles/
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That's old info. Look at the version I attached in post #456.
johngraves2
05-16-2018, 07:49
That's old info. Look at the version I attached in post #456.Do you or anyone else have the final version of what was passed? Your previous attachment wouldn't open for me.
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Where was the NRA in all of this?
Do you or anyone else have the final version of what was passed? Your previous attachment wouldn't open for me.
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https://www-static.bouldercolorado.gov/docs/2018_05_15__Final_rev.)-1-201805141222.pdf?_ga=2.20572856.1245074763.1526484 582-1792660841.1526484582
That should be the most current version.
johngraves2
05-16-2018, 09:48
Where was the NRA in all of this?I saw some of their sponsored posts on FB about this wanting people to write in opposing it, buy other than that I didn't hear or see much from them. RMGO was very outspoken on it and wrote to the city council saying they will file a lawsuit if they pass it.
The latest Daily Camera article on this mentioned a law firm that represents unnamed clients and will file suit and name some of the city council in the suit.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_31880280/boulder-city-council-unanimously-passes-ban-assault-weapons
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UrbanWolf
05-16-2018, 09:49
Where was the NRA in all of this?
Helping the folks in CA, VT, MA, CT, VA, MD, NY, OR, WA, they are in deeper shit and needed the help, Oh... Wait.....
And that would be?
My guess would be financial and legal distress for Boulder
The unique thing about Boulder is the bet high gun ownership rate coupled with a population that can absolutely afford to sue the city. Hopefully it works out that way.
Where was the NRA in all of this?
Who knows.. One of their board members lives here so they definitely know about it.
The unique thing about Boulder is the bet high gun ownership rate coupled with a population that can absolutely afford to sue the city. Hopefully it works out that way.
I hope so as well. Easily 80% of the people I have ever met living in Boulder the last 18 years has a gun of some sort. Many of those have the types of guns that are banned with this ordnance. The council went out of their way to ignore the populace and their statements indicate that as well. I believe that once again last night there were 9 people that spoke on the ban 7 of them being against it.
https://www-static.bouldercolorado.gov/docs/2018_05_15__Final_rev.)-1-201805141222.pdf?_ga=2.20572856.1245074763.1526484 582-1792660841.1526484582
That should be the most current version.
I believe there are still changes that are going to be made to this. The council voted to pass an ordinance that still needed to be amended so basically no one really knows what is all going to be included.
BPTactical
05-16-2018, 17:00
How can you pass something that is not in its final form?
Pure bullshit.
Oh, wait - you have to pass it to see what's in it.
Great-Kazoo
05-16-2018, 17:20
I hope so as well. Easily 80% of the people I have ever met living in Boulder the last 18 years has a gun of some sort. Many of those have the types of guns that are banned with this ordnance. The council went out of their way to ignore the populace and their statements indicate that as well. I believe that once again last night there were 9 people that spoke on the ban 7 of them being against it.
It doesn't matter what the majority say about it. it's all about feels and making sure like other City Council ordinances, makes a political statement.
Planned Parenthood donates more money to political causes than the NRA. The NRA is membership sponsored, PP, they get money from the .gov. Who gets it from You the Taxpayer.
johngraves2
05-16-2018, 20:23
Reading through the text of the third reading seems like it is very similar to Denver's laws. Looks like pistols can have 15 or fewer rounds, but centerfire can have only have 10 or less. Other exceptions for tube and rimfire. I am no lawyer though so just my interpretation.
It is a little confusing though, can a non-Boulder resident drive through Boulder with an AR in their car and in a case without any issues, or is that now illegal?
johngraves2
05-16-2018, 20:28
5-8-10. – Possession and Sale of Illegal Weapons.
(a) No person shall knowingly possess or sell or otherwise transfer an illegal weapon.
(b) The defendant's knowledge that the weapon was illegal is not an aspect of knowledge
required for violation of this section.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to forbid any person:
(1) Holding a Federal Firearms License issued by the United States Government
from possession of any firearm authorized pursuant to such license;
(2) From possessing a weapon for which the United States Government has issued
a stamp or permit pursuant to the National Firearms Act;
(3) From possessing a handgun magazine so long as the possession of the handgun
and magazine are in compliance with state law; or
(4) Selling an illegal weapon to a person identified in Section 5-8-25, “Exemptions
from this Chapter,” B.R.C. 1981.
(d) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to apply to any firearm that has been modified
either to render it permanently inoperable or to permanently make it not an assault
weapon.
(e) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to restrict a person's ability to travel with a
weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or
for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into,
though, or within, the City of Boulder, regardless of the number of times the person
stops in the City of Boulder.
Part e, Does this mean any weapon?
Reading through the text of the third reading seems like it is very similar to Denver's laws. Looks like pistols can have 15 or fewer rounds, but centerfire can have only have 10 or less. Other exceptions for tube and rimfire. I am no lawyer though so just my interpretation.
It is a little confusing though, can a non-Boulder resident drive through Boulder with an AR in their car and in a case without any issues, or is that now illegal?
The laws only apply to Boulder residents so feel free to drive here and shoot up a bunch of people, it's all good as long as someone from Boulder doesn't do it.
Will1776
05-16-2018, 21:47
The laws only apply to Boulder residents so feel free to drive here and shoot up a bunch of people, it's all good as long as someone from Boulder doesn't do it.
I guess those in Boulder can throw on the thorsden stock and make their ASSAULT rifles non-scary and unable to shoot thirty caliber magazine clips in half a second.
On another note, did the 21 age limit to possess any firearm pass as well? Any grandfathering?
I guess those in Boulder can throw on the thorsden stock and make their ASSAULT rifles non-scary and unable to shoot thirty caliber magazine clips in half a second.
On another note, did the 21 age limit to possess any firearm pass as well? Any grandfathering?
I’m assuming the 21 age limit is still there. Grandfathering via certificate. No exceptions for anyone but law enforcement and military while on duty and federal concealed carry permits. Though I would assume that if it came down to it you could get a copy of you 4473 to prove you owned something down the road.. I’m not complying and I don’t know anyone else that is going to either. At least cops are bound by this law on their personal firearms. No exceptions for FFL holders either so theoretically the couple local gunshots would not be able to possess any of these firearms either.
I haven’t heard of any filed lawsuits yet but there has to be a few lawyers out there licking their lips.
Will1776
05-16-2018, 22:20
I’m assuming the 21 age limit is still there. Grandfathering via certificate. No exceptions for anyone but law enforcement and military while on duty and federal concealed carry permits. Though I would assume that if it came down to it you could get a copy of you 4473 to prove you owned something down the road.. I’m not complying and I don’t know anyone else that is going to either. At least cops are bound by this law on their personal firearms.
Good. People in Boulder need to stand up to this tyranny before it gets worse
I hope so as well. Easily 80% of the people I have ever met living in Boulder the last 18 years has a gun of some sort. Many of those have the types of guns that are banned with this ordnance. The council went out of their way to ignore the populace and their statements indicate that as well. I believe that once again last night there were 9 people that spoke on the ban 7 of them being against it.
Spend some time in GSC and you will see some interesting characters. What's the membership of the Boulder Gun Club? How many are on the waiting list?
.455_Hunter
05-16-2018, 22:30
The 21 year old age limit in the ordnance is amusingly absurd, as it states you can't possess a firearm, EXCEPT in your home/private property, in your car, while engaged in lawful shooting activities, etc. Pretty much everything normal non-criminal thing you do with a gun at age 18-21 is covered, including home defense.
.455_Hunter
05-16-2018, 22:34
I haven’t heard of any filed lawsuits yet but there has to be a few lawyers out there licking their lips.
From the BRC President this evening...
The Boulder Rifle Club, along with others, is filing suit against the city et al. We assert that by their actions they have infringed on not only the 2nd, but also the 5th and 14th Amendments to the United States Constitution and violated other federal and state laws.
kidicarus13
05-16-2018, 23:05
No exceptions for FFL holders either so theoretically the couple local gunshots would not be able to possess any of these firearms either.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to forbid any person:
(1) Holding a Federal Firearms License issued by the United States Government
from possession of any firearm authorized pursuant to such license;
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to forbid any person:
(1) Holding a Federal Firearms License issued by the United States Government
from possession of any firearm authorized pursuant to such license;
Which version is that from? I was at the second reading and they removed FFL exemption.
johngraves2
05-17-2018, 06:29
Which version is that from? I was at the second reading and they removed FFL exemption.That's the way it is written in the third reading on that link you posted before. The text starts on like 230 or something in that PDF.
Based on comments by council members I have read they plan on passing more amendments to it going forward cause they know it is not well written and is confusing. That should be illegal regardless of the topic. Pass something that is bad just to pass something and then come back later and change it???
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http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_31884353/boulder-rifle-club-jon-caldara-sue-city-over
Lawsuit filed. It's on, boys and girls.
CoGirl303
05-17-2018, 10:54
https://bit.ly/2IqojCo
A Colorado city has passed a ban on the sale and possession of so-called “assault weapons,” despite protests in recent weeks by gun rights advocates, KUSA-TV reported.
The Boulder City Council unanimously voted for the ordinance, which will go into effect June 15. Still, some council members expressed concerns over the measure.
“I don’t agree with this ordinance in many ways,” Councilwoman Mirabai Nagle said during Tuesday night’s meeting, according to the Daily Camera. “It’s not perfect; I think we’re going to spend a lot of time and money.”
The ban will make it illegal to possess, sell or otherwise transfer “semiautomatic firearms designed with military features to allow rapid spray firing for the quick and efficient killing of humans” after June 15.
About the Ban
People who legally possessed assault weapons before June 15 have four options:
- Remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from the city of Boulder;
- Render the assault weapon permanently inoperable;
- Surrender the assault weapon or large-capacity magazine to the Boulder Police Department for destruction; or
- If eligible, obtain a certificate for the assault weapon as provided in subsection (c).
“Subsection (c)” provides an avenue for legal owners of assault weapons before June 15 to get a certification from local law enforcement by submitting to a background check, securely storing the weapon, and only possessing it on their own property, on the premises of a gunsmith, or on a licensed firing range, or while traveling to or from one of those locations.
What Now?
With the passage of the overall ban, the council is likely to consider future amendments down the road, such as raising the minimum age for firearm purchases to 21 from 18.
The Mountain States Legal Foundation has announced its intention to challenge the ban in court, saying it violates the Second, Fifth and 14th Amendments, as well as the Colorado Constitution.
Still, some in Boulder are celebrating the ban as a potential sign of things to come.
“My hope is that we will see more bans at the state level and one day at the federal level so these weapons will no longer be available,” Councilman Aaron Brockett said.
submit to a background check AGAIN after they already went through one to buy the rifle in the first place? [emoji19]
Subsection - get a certificate? why? so the city knows you have it? This violates the Colorodo Constitution clause on gun registries which are banned/illegal.
What keeps someone from saying they moved and listing a different address on their ATF Form and buying one anyways?
You could use your parents address, grandparents address, a secondary address, a vacation home in the mountains, a business address in another city.
Is CBI gonna deny all Boulder City BG Check applications that list a Boulder address?
The day these rifles are banned nationally is the day ALL gun owners go lib hunting.
I'm so appalled at the blatant stupidity displayed by the Boulder City Council.
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