View Full Version : Boulder AR-15 Ban
https://bit.ly/2IqojCo
submit to a background check AGAIN after they already went through one to buy the rifle in the first place? [emoji19]
Subsection - get a certificate? why? so the city knows you have it? This violates the Colorodo Constitution clause on gun registries which are banned/illegal.
What keeps someone from saying they moved and listing a different address on their ATF Form and buying one anyways?
You could use your parents address, grandparents address, a secondary address, a vacation home in the mountains, a business address in another city.
Is CBI gonna deny all Boulder City BG Check applications that list a Boulder address?
The day these rifles are banned nationally is the day ALL gun owners go lib hunting.
I'm so appalled at the blatant stupidity displayed by the Boulder City Council.
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Maybe it's that other pesky damn .gov issued document, the Driver's License, that has to match the address on the 4473?
CoGirl303
05-17-2018, 14:14
Maybe it's that other pesky damn .gov issued document, the Driver's License, that has to match the address on the 4473?
you're not required by Colorado law to go get a new DL card with your new addres when you get a new address. Just have to go online and put in a change of address and write it on the back of the card. Still easy to change it, buy the rifle and then change it back later.
What about college students at Boulder who have addresses out of the city?
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hurley842002
05-17-2018, 14:29
you're not required by Colorado law to go get a new DL card with your new addres when you get a new address. Just have to go online and put in a change of address and write it on the back of the card. Still easy to change it, buy the rifle and then change it back later.
What about college students at Boulder who have addresses out of the city?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkInteresting, I guess the FFL's that required supporting documentation (in my case car registration), were just effing with me....
Many places won't take the address just written on the back.
I don't understand how a local law can control what you do elsewhere.
So in order to skirt one law (Boulder), you break another law (current address). This cascades into a rank violation of state law, which you won't get out of in court, in order to fight a law which is probably very fightable in court (assuming the prosecutor isn't Peruvian, since they love to eat guinea pigs).
The DL *does* have to reflect your current address to do the 4473. Alternatively, you can use your old DL w/ old address, so long as you provide another form of state-issued ID with current address such as: hunting license, fishing license, etc.
newracer
05-17-2018, 15:04
“Subsection (c)” provides an avenue for legal owners of assault weapons before June 15 to get a certification from local law enforcement by submitting to a background check, securely storing the weapon, and only possessing it on their own property, on the premises of a gunsmith, or on a licensed firing range, or while traveling to or from one of those locations.
You also cannot shoot one on public land.
Great-Kazoo
05-17-2018, 15:16
Interesting, I guess the FFL's that required supporting documentation (in my case car registration), were just effing with me....
Many places won't take the address just written on the back.
I don't understand how a local law can control what you do elsewhere.
A FFL will take (depending on who you use) a DL with COA on back. PROVIDING you show a current utility bill for new address.
kidicarus13
05-17-2018, 15:40
https://bit.ly/2IqojCo
Subsection - get a certificate? why? so the city knows you have it? This violates the Colorodo Constitution clause on gun registries which are banned/illegal.
05/15/18 Boulder City Council Meeting Packet pp 230-231, 11. Certification System:
"The police will not maintain any records of the certificates and will not replace lost certificates."
CoGirl303
05-17-2018, 16:03
05/15/18 Boulder City Council Meeting Packet pp 230-231, 11. Certification System:
"The police will not maintain any records of the certificates and will not replace lost certificates."
so they claim. [emoji849]
I trust a liberal about as far as I can pick one up and throw them.
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CoGirl303
05-17-2018, 16:38
So in order to skirt one law (Boulder), you break another law (current address). This cascades into a rank violation of state law, which you won't get out of in court, in order to fight a law which is probably very fightable in court (assuming the prosecutor isn't Peruvian, since they love to eat guinea pigs).
The DL *does* have to reflect your current address to do the 4473. Alternatively, you can use your old DL w/ old address, so long as you provide another form of state-issued ID with current address such as: hunting license, fishing license, etc.
You're right it won't get you out of trouble in court.
By law it "should"...but how many people innocently get caught up in moving, get busy with packing/unpacking and turning on utilities, arranging their place, getting settled in and legitimately forget to change their address on their DL?
How many people in the Denver area do something similar to avoid emissions testing on their cars?
Bet it happens more than we'd like to think.
But I have two points in regards to why I posted what I did...
1.) This garbage town legislation criminalizes law abiding citizens.
2.) This piece of crap legislation will not stop anyone in Boulder from buying, selling or transferring the weapons it targets.
If the citizens of Boulder want to get around it...they can. That's all I'm saying.
Not debating if it is right, wrong, legal or illegal.
Most gun owners simply aren't going to comply with this at all and not that I blame them either.
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CoGirl303
05-17-2018, 16:49
Interesting, I guess the FFL's that required supporting documentation (in my case car registration), were just effing with me....
Ok, let's say you moved and you legitimately forgot to change your address online or update your DL by getting a new card because it slipped your mind and you didn't really think about it when you went to the FFL dealer and bought a gun?
How do they know? Why would they request any documentation if they don't know and you didn't tell them?
That's the point I'm trying to make. Unless YOU the buyer tell the FFL dealer, no one is going to know! So it's easy for any citizen of Boulder to do the same and circumvent the system.
Especially if you have a second home or a business address in another city or you have family there.
Or maybe people come up with "Boulder is just our second home or getaway/vacation home".
Or you have a college student that has a permanent address at his/her parents house in another city but a temporary address in Boulder at an apt, renting a room at a house or a dorm. They don't update the addresses on their DL's. Mom and Dad just put their mail in a big envelope or a small box and send it to them or bring it by when they visit.
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68Charger
05-17-2018, 21:10
I'm trying to understand the point... to show how badly thought out the leftist new law is? Like we need to look hard for that?
Their motivation? I think that one's pretty easy to figure out... just tell them that their new masters will abandon them now that they've done what the left wanted. Then show them that's the case by voting them out of office. Then ask them to tell THAT story... about how the left will use you and throw you away.
Do FFLs currently prevent residents of Denver from purchasing assault weapons?
Or follow Colorado law?
Do they even have to enforce city laws and ordinances that they are not located in?
Not advocating breaking the law. Just curious how this and other city laws apply to their citizens when outside imaginary bounderies.
Will1776
05-17-2018, 22:46
Do FFLs currently prevent residents of Denver from purchasing assault weapons?
Or follow Colorado law?
Do they even have to enforce city laws and ordinances that they are not located in?
Not advocating breaking the law. Just curious how this and other city laws apply to their citizens when outside imaginary bounderies.
Denver ban is similar to Boulder's older one. A semi auto only becomes a scary assault rifle when a mag over 15 rounds (used to be 20) is inserted
BPTactical
05-18-2018, 09:17
From Kevin Lundberg
Boulder Gun Law
The People's Republic of Boulder has proven, once again, that their respect for the laws of the State of Colorado is slim to non-existent. Their banning what they call "assault weapons" is a direct violation of what was once called SB03-25, and is now called CRS 29-11.7-103:
"A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, of possess under state or federal law."
This law is extremely clear, no local government can override state law when it comes to gun control regulations. Their argument that a home-rule city is exempt from this law is also without legal merit, as CRS 29-11.7-101 (2) (a) declares that the "...regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern..." and, in CRS 29-11.7-101 (1) (f) it includes in it's list of local governments a "city and county," which at the time of this legislation meant the home-rule jurisdiction called Denver. Home-rule jurisdictions are specifically mentioned because it applies to home-rule jurisdictions.
Finally, I was in the legislature when this bill passed, I voted for the bill, I was a co-sponsor of the bill, I know we passed SB03-25 precisely because we knew there would be a time when a city like Boulder would seek to defy state laws concerning the use and possession of firearms.
If the people of Boulder want to ban "assault weapons" they need to seek the legal path, through the legislature. As it is, the city of Boulder has become the law breaker.
Loosen thine sphincter Boulder, City of.
You will be loved tenderly
Do FFLs currently prevent residents of Denver from purchasing assault weapons?
Or follow Colorado law?
Do they even have to enforce city laws and ordinances that they are not located in?
Not advocating breaking the law. Just curious how this and other city laws apply to their citizens when outside imaginary bounderies.
Wondering this too. My DL says Boulder but I don't live in the city. I'm guessing Westminster Arms or 5280 wouldn't care. Will CBI deny a 4473 if I want to pick up another lower receiver?
CoGirl303
05-18-2018, 11:12
Do FFLs currently prevent residents of Denver from purchasing assault weapons?
Or follow Colorado law?
Do they even have to enforce city laws and ordinances that they are not located in?
Not advocating breaking the law. Just curious how this and other city laws apply to their citizens when outside imaginary bounderies.
I wanna know does CBI reject an application for the buyer of an AR-15 if a buyer is from Denver city or Denver County?
What if you are a Denver city/county resident and go outside the city limit and buy? Does the FFL and/or CBI reject the app?
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Will1776
05-18-2018, 11:16
I wanna know does CBI reject an application for the buyer of an AR-15 if a buyer is from Denver city or Denver County?
What if you are a Denver city/county resident and go outside the city limit and buy? Does the FFL and/or CBI reject the app?
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Denver does not ban AR15s. And I believe CBI only knows your name at the time of the background check.
newracer
05-18-2018, 12:01
I wanna know does CBI reject an application for the buyer of an AR-15 if a buyer is from Denver city or Denver County?
What if you are a Denver city/county resident and go outside the city limit and buy? Does the FFL and/or CBI reject the app?
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CBI only knows that it is a long gun, the type or model is not submitted.
.455_Hunter
05-18-2018, 12:36
My DL says Boulder but I don't live in the city.
Same.
I wanna know does CBI reject an application for the buyer of an AR-15 if a buyer is from Denver city or Denver County?
What if you are a Denver city/county resident and go outside the city limit and buy? Does the FFL and/or CBI reject the app?
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Along with the previous responses.. The Denver ban does not specifically list types of weapons or features.. It is worded in a way that an assault weapon is only an assault weapon if it has a magazine that has a capacity of over 20 rounds. My AK with a 30 round magazine in it is an assault weapon, if I have a 20 round magazine in it it is legal.
Along with the previous responses.. The Denver ban does not specifically list types of weapons or features.. It is worded in a way that an assault weapon is only an assault weapon if it has a magazine that has a capacity of over 20 rounds. My AK with a 30 round magazine in it is an assault weapon, if I have a 20 round magazine in it it is legal.
Is that how they get past the preemption law?
DenverGP
05-18-2018, 21:48
I think denver got past the preemption law because they already had the law on the books before the preemption law was passed.
I think denver got past the preemption law because they already had the law on the books before the preemption law was passed.
That and they had major gang warfare going on at the time the case went to court and claimed that they had a higher than usual firearm related crime rate.
DenverGP
05-19-2018, 10:35
That and they had major gang warfare going on at the time the case went to court and claimed that they had a higher than usual firearm related crime rate.
Right, I could see how they could argue they had overriding local concerns... but it definitely wouldn't apply to boulder.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-21-2018, 00:05
Right, I could see how they could argue they had overriding local concerns... but it definitely wouldn't apply to boulder.
Don't count on it. They get in front of the state supremes and make the argument that AWs are a existential threat to everyone and if the progressives have enough votes, it will be kosher. Then all the munis will line up to virtue signal.
ETA: Do you have to show up with the gun to get it registered? Or just provide a Serial # and model? I'm just picturing all these people showing up with ARs on the last day.
Great-Kazoo
05-21-2018, 07:33
Don't count on it. They get in front of the state supremes and make the argument that AWs are a existential threat to everyone and if the progressives have enough votes, it will be kosher. Then all the munis will line up to virtue signal.
ETA: Do you have to show up with the gun to get it registered? Or just provide a Serial # and model? I'm just picturing all these people showing up with ARs on the last day.
Based on CA, NY, MA & CT registration. I doubt there would be more than 100, if that, actually comply
.455_Hunter
05-31-2018, 10:59
Anybody have updates or intel?
No new emails from the BRC since the lawsuit was filed.
...ETA: Do you have to show up with the gun to get it registered? Or just provide a Serial # and model? I'm just picturing all these people showing up with ARs on the last day.
I am in favor of cutting out magazine photographs or printed photos from the Internet. Those should be scary enough for most progressives.
I am in favor of cutting out magazine photographs or printed photos from the Internet. Those should be scary enough for most progressives.
While sitting there, listening to Culture Club and putting on CLP lip gloss in a tactically seductive manner?
Would I have to declare my sex or could I remain ambiguously androgynous? LGBTAR
Would I have to declare my sex or could I remain ambiguously androgynous? LGBTAR
You don't have to declare, but when all your holsters are tuckable...
Declaration of gender, sex, and biological chromosomal markers is bigotry and marginalizing, and can be a form of discrimination.
Anybody have updates or intel?
No new emails from the BRC since the lawsuit was filed.
Well, considering that the law, although passed, still supposedly has amendments coming of which I have not heard what they are or will be.. I'm sure the city council will drag their feet up to the July 31st deadline for magazines, never mind the fact that the lawsuit has been presented even though they are not done with their final version of the law. I could easily see them pass something that takes the lawsuit into consideration and words things in a way that somehow favors them in court.
Great-Kazoo
05-31-2018, 14:02
Would I have to declare my sex or could I remain ambiguously androgynous? LGBTAR
Shouldn't that be LGCSTONE ?
So, if someone living outside of boulder purchased an AR after the ban, and moves to boulder, then what?
kidicarus13
05-31-2018, 16:36
No certificate from the PD, not legal.
Or better yet in unincororated boulder county, then gets incorporated into boulder city...
RblDiver
06-01-2018, 12:51
Rally for our Rights group shared this. Out in CA, they passed a similar "assault-style weapon registration" law. A man tried to comply, now he's facing 12 felonies. https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatter/news/california-farmer-charged-with-12-felonies-after-trying-to-register-his-guns-KaYA9xPcY0eSpeNnNm6PCw/
Been quiet, but this article in the Daily Camera just came out.
http://www.dailycamera.com/top-stories/ci_31956179/boulder-council-assault-weapons-ban-ownership-certificates
Delfuego
06-20-2018, 11:51
Rally for our Rights group shared this. Out in CA, they passed a similar "assault-style weapon registration" law. A man tried to comply, now he's facing 12 felonies. https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatter/news/california-farmer-charged-with-12-felonies-after-trying-to-register-his-guns-KaYA9xPcY0eSpeNnNm6PCw/
Cut from article:
"He suggested that anyone who was struggling to understand the current requirements should meet with a licensed firearms dealer.
"There is this self-registration application on the Department of Justice website, but it may be better to talk to an FFL,” Commander Pilkington said. “Someone who has a license, to talk through whatever these complications are.".
So now the FFL's are the official experts? We have always known that dealers and gun owners know more than politicians and the BATFE, but up till now they were the "defacto" legal experts. I guess this proves that law enforcement and DOJ don't even know what laws and regulation are on the books anymore. Could you imagine this in any other faction of society?
Cut from article:
So now the FFL's are the official experts? We have always known that dealers and gun owners know more than politicians and the BATFE, but up till now they were the "defacto" legal experts. I guess this proves that law enforcement and DOJ don't even know what laws and regulation are on the books anymore. Could you imagine this in any other faction of society?
Well, when they change on a daily basis who is supposed to know?
Been quiet, but this article in the Daily Camera just came out.
http://www.dailycamera.com/top-stories/ci_31956179/boulder-council-assault-weapons-ban-ownership-certificates
The background checks that a gunshop does are not sufficient to the check the local PD would do.. that says it all.
The background checks that a gunshop does are not sufficient to the check the local PD would do.. that says it all.
What? That they do not know what they are talking about? That "feel good" legislation, no mater how poorly written and unenforceable is better than the current laws on the books?
I also like the part about the "demonstration" the opposition had to raise money to fight the new legislation.
spqrzilla
06-20-2018, 23:44
They are just outright lying about FFL background checks. Outrageous.
BPTactical
06-21-2018, 08:30
Soup Sandwich
Fuck Boulder
SuperiorDG
06-21-2018, 08:49
Does this ban someone from driving through Boulder with an AR in their car if they are a resident of another city?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-21-2018, 08:57
Look at you guys citing law and precedent. That is cute. Where are the votes on SCOCO?
Does this ban someone from driving through Boulder with an AR in their car if they are a resident of another city?
No
Hence the stupidity of it.
And as long as it's in a case and they can't see what it is it doesn't matter. They have admitted that they can't search you for one, it would have to be in plain sight of an officer.
According to a user on Reddit, the BPD is issuing certificates for AWs now.
You have until the end of the year to get weapons certified by the PD before they become illegal. Technically the weapons should have been purchased before June (?) 15th, but they will not ask you for proof of purchase. I’ve also confirmed with a Sargent at the PD that you can certify lowers now and build them up later and still be within the law. The local gun store is no longer selling full builds, but they are selling lowers.
I've been following Caldara v. City of Boulder online (https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/24540885/Caldara_et_al_v_City_of_Boulder_et_al), but I haven't been able to get details, just general actions being taken in the case. Does anyone have any updates or inside knowledge?
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